Suburban living dying off as people migrate to the cities again

[Zeffy]

Seen from http://news.msn.com/videos/?ap=True&videoid=ae0d48d8-0c12-7c7c-1275-ca0702dfe89a .

As 15-year suburbia living resident, let me tell you this: I'm sick of it. There is no such thing as walk-ability in my town. This town is great for living because there's virtually no crime here. That's great and all, but the cost of living here isn't cheap either. Plus, the only way to get what you need is with a car - unless you live near the supermarket which doesn't even have everything in the first place, you're SOL. I know that New Jersey has always been called "a suburb of New York", but that's not entirely true, as we do have urban centers of our own.

In an article semi-recently published by NJ.com, towns like Morristown, Somerville, South Orange, etc. are gaining popularity because while they are not as urban as some of the cities in NJ, they do offer conveniences that are within walking distance. Add the public transportation availability and you get a recipe for success. Many years ago, owning a house in suburbia was considered the American dream - and it was, because gas wasn't so damn expensive. Now that gas is much more expensive than 40 years ago, living in the suburbs only adds to the frustration of commuting to work and not being able to easily get the goods you need.

The cities in NJ are great because they are the truly urban centers of the state, but they all seem to have problems. The big one, aka Newark, is definitely thriving, but there also is a huge crime issue. Jersey City seems to have it's ups and downs, but it, like Newark, is definitely thriving. Paterson seems to have the same problem. The smaller cities, like Trenton and Camden were both great at one point, but now violent crime is too much of a risk to live in these cities. (On a positive note, Trenton, while at 15 homicides already, does have a new mayor elected, so maybe we can start to see improvement in a few years, same with Newark) New Brunswick looks great but outside of the college dorms crime seems to be getting worse as years pass by. Hoboken seems to be gaining popularity rapidly as a great place for young people to live, which is leading to gentrification.

So, how about you guys? Are you fed up with living in the suburbs, or do you hate living in the city?

[Desert Man]

Zeffy, suburban life in Southern CA is no picnic. I don't drive, but I take local transit bus and ride my bike to (and back from) work. You really need to drive around here, if you can afford the cost of the car, gas prices per gallon and auto insurance. And driving around here is the ever increase in traffic, esp. peaks in the winter months by seasonal residents using local roads in the Palm Springs area.

The cost of living is relatively high in southern CA and crime is another issue, but where I live in Palm Desert doesn't have the crime problems to compare with cities like San Bernardino and Riverside, each the closest major cities 60 miles away. Suburban sprawl has heightened in the Inland Empire region, so there's a need for more freeways and mass transit services to connect with LA and the OC or San Diego. Housing prices may be lower than on the coasts, but they're rising rapidly and soon as you know it, not as many residents can afford to live in the Inland Empire.

I'm concerned on the "exurbs" are poorly equipped in amenities you find in more developed portions of metro areas and with increased population growth, they need to adjust their community in urban planning. I prefer suburbs instead of major cities as higher population density means traffic, low privacy and stress, but it's just my thing to live in smaller towns as they have a sense of rural environments appealing to many people like myself seek a quieter place to live.

[oscar]

I definitely prefer suburbs, which tend to be a lot more car-friendly than cities.  (Whaddya expect, posting this on a roads forum?)  Especially ones, like my own close-in suburb, which has OK public transit for me to get around when one of my cars is in the shop, or for medical or weather reasons I can't drive, so I'm not completely SOL if I can't drive.

One problem with walkable communities is diminished choice.  You're not likely to have multiple supermarkets of any significant size within walking distance, while I have several different chains (Giant, Safeway, Shoppers Food Warehouse, Harris Teeter) within a short drive from home, which I switch among depending on what I need at the moment and what they have on sale that week.  And good luck finding a walkable neighborhood with a Wal-Mart, Target, or hardware/lumber superstore like Home Depot or Lowe's, within walking distance.  (Alas, no Wal-Marts in Virginia within I-495, but at least there are Targets and some other big-box stores near the county line.)

[roadman65]

Where I live the suburbs are become the city.  Orange Blossom Trail was once a four lane rural highway with mostly cattle land along its side that is now a six lane urban street with businesses ever few feet.

However, I see what you mean.  Here we need a car to get from A to B, and the jobs are scattered throughout the area.  Orlando Downtown is not the chief area for jobs.  We are held hostage by the high price of gas no matter where we live.  Living in Downtown is not a help at all unless you are actually working there.  I do not see people buying homes along the new SunRail route anytime soon either because its corridor is so narrow an area using the CSX line as its line.

[jeffandnicole]

I've seen these reports as well, which really generalize the wanting to go back into the city.  There's a lot of singles & young couples, especially those without children, that have a desire to live in a more urban environment where activites are an easy walk, rail, or cab ride away.

Don't confuse it though with "Suburban living dying off".  A certain segment appears to be wanting to stay in the urban areas.  But once they have children, they seem to decide to move into the suburbs.

This also seems to agree to some studies that say traffic is down.  Maybe it's not rising as much as it has in the past, but if my rush hour commutes are any sign, I'm sitting in more and more traffic every day.

[ET21]

Many suburbs and towns that were isolated even 10-20 years ago are starting to be enveloped by the sprawls. Examples I can think of is Sandwich and Plano Illinois along US-34. I drove that last week and it's almost a continuous business street from Sandwich all the way to Chicago.

Personally I would want to live in the city, but that won't happen for awhile.

[oscar]

Don't confuse it though with "Suburban living dying off".  A certain segment appears to be wanting to stay in the urban areas.  But once they have children, they seem to decide to move into the suburbs.

The Washington Post has many articles on young couples agonizing whether to stay in the city once they have children.  The better public schools in some of the suburbs, for couples not wealthy enough to send their kids to private schools, is a large part of this, and help our already-ridiculously-affluent suburbs thrive.

[roadman65]

I wish that some of the developers would include rail lines within their development as well as including office and retail places along the line accessible from all neighborhoods in the development.  That would be an incentive to buy homes for people as adding a rail line after the fact is not.  People love their cars and the independence it gives them, so offering later on a rail line will not get them to give up their freedom.  If the rail or bus line exists prior to you buying a home near your home going to places you frequent, then it will entice them to want to use the system.  That is why SunRail to me will be a flop and why Florida Governor Dick Scott will not support the I-4 high speed rail.

[Doctor Whom]

The Washington Post has many articles on young couples agonizing whether to stay in the city once they have children.  The better public schools in some of the suburbs, for couples not wealthy enough to send their kids to private schools, is a large part of this, and help our already-ridiculously-affluent suburbs thrive.

It's true that the population of DC is growing rapidly and that parts of the city that in the nineties looked like Dresden after the war are now full of expensive condos.  But if suburban living in the DC area is dying off, residents of two suburban counties with over a million people each (and growing) haven't gotten the memo.

[corco]

I live in the middle of nowhere right now, but I always figured that if/when I do move to a populated area, my preference would actually be to live towards the urban core just because it's easier to meet people. Once I'm established, have a solid base, maybe a wife, then I'd rather raise kids out in the suburbs. It really depends on the city too- if I were to move back to, say, Boise, it would be a no brainer to live in the North End even with kids- it's still fairly affordable and it's within walking distance of downtown and I can easily keep a car. If I lived in, say, Seattle- I'd probably shoot for one of the secondary urban cores, maybe live near downtown Tacoma or Everett, moving out to Puyallup or Marysville once I'm ready to establish a family.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I live in a suburb (like the past few generations of my family; they settled here before it was part of suburbia) and I like it here. I'm right downtown, so walkability is okay, and if I have to go a little further out and it's the summer, I take my bike (locals think I'm weird for that, especially since I have a car).

I'm actually moving closer to the city (still in a suburb, but just across the bridge), but that's because of a combination of the parking at my workplace being $20 a day, and poor access to transit in my town (despite our efforts; they deem it unprofitable, as if trasit has ever been profitable).

I don't know. I don't like it in the city. There's too much noise, stress, pollution, hobos; not enough trees, space, etc. Everything is more expensive: apartments, water, parking (when you find some), gas... heck, even restaurants. I never grew up in that, and it just feels overly stressful after a few days.

[hbelkins]

Crowds, pavement and concrete, the fact that it's unfriendly to vehicles -- no way I would ever want to live in a city. Never did. Give me a yard and trees and a modicum of privacy and a variety of retail establishments nearby, instead of being with stuck with whatever I can walk to and trying to juggle six bags of groceries and a case of pop on the walk back home. I like being able to drive right up to my front door and knowing I'll always have a place to park. Whether that's a suburb or a small town or in a rural setting -- all are preferable to city living.

[Bruce]

I'd love to live in a city where I didn't have to walk 15 minutes over a terrible freeway overpass to catch the first of three buses to go anywhere interesting.

[freebrickproductions]

In Alabama, people are still moving out to the suburbs. Birmingham's been loosing population.

[Pete from Boston]

The biggest problem with a lot of the decent (not ritzy) city neighborhoods here is that they're unaffordable by anyone under upper-middle class.  Rents are exorbitant, and purchase prices insulting.  I am eagerly looking forward to the real estate crash that necessarily follows a market this overinflated.

[NJRoadfan]

.
In an article semi-recently published by NJ.com, towns like Morristown, Somerville, South Orange, etc. are gaining popularity because while they are not as urban as some of the cities in NJ, they do offer conveniences that are within walking distance. Add the public transportation availability and you get a recipe for success.

All of those towns have a train to NYC, that is the only reason why. The people there own cars to get everywhere else. The suburbs aren't going anywhere as long as cities remain expensive to live in. Heck all those towns were originally built as "railroad suburbs" that were cheaper to live in than the city.

[corco]

I actually don't mind not needing a car, as long as I have access to it. I live in a small town now and basically ride my bike everywhere here, unless I'm buying groceries or going out of town. No reason to waste the gas and drive the car cold and it's good exercise. As long as I live somewhere where I have somewhere I can park a car for a minimal rate/built into the cost of rent, and I'm within a 15 minute drive of a grocery store I can park outside of, I'm good to go.

[Pete from Boston]

I actually don't mind not needing a car, as long as I have access to it. I live in a small town now and basically ride my bike everywhere here, unless I'm buying groceries or going out of town. No reason to waste the gas and drive the car cold and it's good exercise. As long as I live somewhere where I have somewhere I can park a car for a minimal rate/built into the cost of rent, and I'm within a 15 minute drive of a grocery store I can park outside of, I'm good to go.

I know many people who just use zipcars for this stuff rather than own one. 

[corco]

I actually don't mind not needing a car, as long as I have access to it. I live in a small town now and basically ride my bike everywhere here, unless I'm buying groceries or going out of town. No reason to waste the gas and drive the car cold and it's good exercise. As long as I live somewhere where I have somewhere I can park a car for a minimal rate/built into the cost of rent, and I'm within a 15 minute drive of a grocery store I can park outside of, I'm good to go.

I know many people who just use zipcars for this stuff rather than own one. 

Personally, and I definitely get the appeal if you more or less want to stay in the city, but a big part of the appeal of living in a city to me is the ability to get out of the city- Zipcars get expensive fast when you start taking 200-2,000 mile drives on the weekend, so I think I'd rather always own my own car.

[Doctor Whom]

It's not just the cost of real estate that keeps people from moving into cities.  It certainly isn't what keeps people from moving into Baltimore or Detroit.

[agentsteel53]

for a while I rented a car every weekend.  later I realized that as I was making more and more trips for business, owning a beater and taking the 55 1/2 cent per mile deduction was the way to go.  or, as I like to call it: "Uncle Sam pays for all my cars."

if I had no idea where to park the car most of the time, I would have to reconsider that balance.  that said, when I lived in Boston, I didn't have too much trouble with parking.

[nexus73]

Oregon has had urban growth boundaries since 1970.  Here your universes are PDX/suburbs, downstate and eastern Oregon.  If you live in the PDX area you can do well with both the city and the burbs.  Downstate is medium sized cities and larger towns, where your alternative is living in the countryside.  In this setting you can get to any place you want in 15 minutes max when you're in the urban area while the countryside is for those who want the wide open spaces as well as the farmers and ranchers.  Eastern Oregon is going to be larger and smaller towns with the countryside largely empty except for ranchers so you'll be in an urban area most likely. 

It's not so much about "bad things" as it is the "good things" which lead people to make their choices of living locations here.  My maternal grandmother came to the Oregon Coast as WWII was winding down due to the relatively temperate climate.  Some people choose a location based on their job while others look for amenities, either natural or man-made.  Retirees love Southern Oregon due to the low property taxes while young people thrive on the scene in PDX.  Keep Portland Weird and all that you know...LOL!

Since there is something good and something less desireable about each choice in Oregon I can't vote either way.  It's a YMMV kind of deal and so long as you're happy it's all good.  When it isn't you move.  The gigantic masses of traffic that plague Seattle, the SF Bay Area and SoCal aren't part of our life.  On the other hands plenty of desireable franchises are severly underrepresented or completely absent from both Oregon and Washington.  It's like the PNW doesn't exist to those folks in skyscrapers back East.  Screw 'em.  What we have in their place is often damned good on it's own and no one else has what we have!

Rick

[Revive 755]

I'd prefer to live in a suburban area with decent sidewalks; a network of bike paths or lower volume streets for bicycling; and still have a decent arterial system for other trips or trips out of the area.  Contrary to what seems to be commonly pushed in planning circles these days, these options don't have to be mutually exclusive.  I can think of a couple places that are/were close to meeting both criteria.

[bing101]

"Suburban living dying off" This has to be more of areas that faced the highest foreclosure rates in 2008 though.


But Wait I live in Solano county which happens to be a rural area/ Suburban area for both Sacramento and the Bay Area.
I live here because I commute to Sacramento but my family commutes to Oakland and San Francisco for Jobs. I like to be halfway from both places.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

I will never prefer urban living over suburban living.  I like to drive, and I strongly dislike sharing walls/floor/ceiling with other people.  Having to be quiet all the time sucks - sometimes you just want to wind up some Pink Floyd, for instance.  Plus, I need a place to tinker with my cars.