Why isn't english the official language of the United States?

[J N Winkler]

My point: unless entirely secluded from the general population for multiple generations, most immigrant families will eventually speak English. The exception would be if you lived in a region of the country where a huge chunk of the population still speaks that language, which at this point has historically been happening for centuries.

This situation also isn't as rare as some might think.  My maternal ancestors, all of whom were native-born Americans going back at least to my great-grandparents' generation, spoke German instead of or in addition to English, and were schooled in German until the US entered World War I and there were quite conscious efforts to intimidate German-Americans into not speaking German.  (As an example, Arthur Capper, who was then governor of Kansas, threatened to sic the militia on the German-American community in the state if there was any protest against the war.  This is why I will vigorously oppose any form of posthumous recognition for him, such as adding his likeness to Statuary Hall at the Capitol.)

S.I. Hayakawa, who served as a US senator from California and famously opposed official bilingualism, used to remark that bilingualism was good for individuals but bad for the state.  My maternal grandparents, who remembered the strain of having to learn to speak only English at school and in other public settings after World War I, did not believe that bilingualism was good even for the individual, and opted to teach their children English only while reserving German for family arguments which the children were not to understand even if they could overhear them.

Part of their reasoning was that bilingual German-English speakers of their generation had difficulty drawing distinctions between German and English usage in ordinary conversation.  For example, they would often say "Leave it be" instead of "Let it be," since the same verb (lassen) is used for both let and leave in German.  They were farmers, but recognized that the general trend at the time was toward urbanization, and they wanted their children to be able to present themselves as educated English speakers.

German continues to survive as a minority language in the US (cf. Texasdeutsch) but is very much endangered.

[1995hoo]

My wife's family immigrated from Hungary (except for her two brothers, who were born here). She spoke solely Hungarian until she started school at age 5. If you met us, you wouldn't know she's a naturalized citizen or that English is, technically, her "second language" because, practically speaking, it's long been her first language. Her father once told her not to speak Hungarian in public because she speaks it like a little kid–so I guess she stopped learning much Hungarian once she started school. But if you met her father (well, if he were still alive, that is) you'd have known instantly he was an immigrant because he always had a very thick accent and spoke much more slowly.

There's no question kids pick up another language and assimilate into another culture far more easily than adults do.

[english si]

There's elementary school classes in London that have 20 kids and about 13 first languages, none of them English, when they start. These classes, I gather, are a struggle at first, but as children are good at learning languages when they need to, they pick it up quickly and as they can't speak their native tongue in school and be understood by more than a couple of people in class, conversations on the playground start to happen in English. The issue is the parents and their English, as they aren't being taught it...

It's occasionally still a problem at Junior High Level that British-born (even 3rd generation) children aren't good at English as they only get exposed to it at school, but normally only when you have a large community of one language (and normally when that community is Pakistani or Bangladeshi in origin).

I believe that Welsh schools, whether Welsh-language or English-language, have to learn both (a problem with bilingual countries which are bilingual to protect minority groups) up to age 16. In the English-speaking areas, Welsh teaching is often pretty poor.

[agentsteel53]

Teenagers use such spelling a lot, but they wouldn't get all their SPAG marks in humanities subjects at GCSE and A level, even if consistent.

and you don't think British English has a lot of nonstandard items in it.  just look at that sentence.  so spaggy!

[US71]

Teenagers use such spelling a lot, but they wouldn't get all their SPAG marks in humanities subjects at GCSE and A level, even if consistent.

and you don't think British English has a lot of nonstandard items in it.  just look at that sentence.  so spaggy!

I'll think about that in the Loo.

[formulanone]

Teenagers use such spelling a lot, but they wouldn't get all their SPAG marks in humanities subjects at GCSE and A level, even if consistent.

and you don't think British English has a lot of nonstandard items in it.  just look at that sentence.  so spaggy!

I'll think about that in the Loo.

Looing's ace, mate.

[billtm]

The way I see it is that I'm an American and I shouldn't have to learn a second language.

Who is forcing you to learn a new language?

My high school.

[J N Winkler]

My high school.

Then times have changed.  When I was going to high school, foreign languages were elective, but students who were attempting what was called a "college-preparatory curriculum" (which was not a formal requirement) were strongly urged to have at least two years of a foreign language.  I took four years of Latin.

[english si]

Looing's ace, mate.

G'day to you too, you aussie!

For the record - SPAG = Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar. I was told not to bother with them, except in English.

The way I see it is that I'm an American and I shouldn't have to learn a second language.

Who is forcing you to learn a new language?

My high school.

That's the attitude that see American tourists get talked about behind their back across the world - and not just in snobby Paris, but even among the natives in London who can't speak other languages than English in a thick Cockney/Seff Lon'on/Estuary accent.

And as I pointed out, English as the official language would do this to non-English speakers...

I took four years of Latin.

That's the least surprising JNW sentence ever! A perfect match


I had to do two years of French and German at secondary school, but only had to do one for a further two years. If they (foolishly) had given me another elective, my dislike of the French French teachers being in-your-face about how France is better would have probably have been overcome, meaning I did both languages (along with about 30% of my year). However this dislike had overcome my inferior German skills (as I had quite a bit previous French learning), so I went with that on my language elective. I'd have carried on with German (though everyone but me and my teacher would have been surprised until Results Day where the A revealed that I can do languages, but I'm not great at active skills like writing and speaking), but having a limit to four subjects (I could have done a fifth) and a lack of interest from my peers meant it was never to be.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

'Why isn't english the official language of the United States?' Because it will be superseded by Spanish in the next century .

Besides that, there's a grammar mistake in the poll.

[Pete from Boston]

My high school.

Then times have changed.  When I was going to high school, foreign languages were elective, but students who were attempting what was called a "college-preparatory curriculum" (which was not a formal requirement) were strongly urged to have at least two years of a foreign language.  I took four years of Latin.

It isn't new to me.  We had two years required at my public school–four years recommended–a few decades ago now.   Also two years required in junior high.

College (again, state school) required two passing semesters or testing out (thanks to the six years of preparation, I was able to test out).

[realjd]

The way I see it is that I'm an American and I shouldn't have to learn a second language.

Who is forcing you to learn a new language?

My high school.

US41 was saying he shouldn't be forced to learn Spanish to get by in society. Having a foreign language requirement for school is different. For one, it doesn't specify what language. I'll bet you have at least Spanish and French to choose from, if not German and Latin as well. And secondly, even if you don't become fluent (or even conversational) in a foreign language, studying one is a valuable academic experience and will help you better understand English grammar.

I took Latin in HS and Spanish in college and am glad I did.

[formulanone]

Looing's ace, mate.

G'day to you too, you aussie!

...that's what I get for trying to fit it in...

[Avalanchez71]

A point most people forget: it usually takes until the second generation of American born children for a "native" language to disappear culturally from an immigrant family. For instance: when my great grandparents came here from Italy (generation zero), they spoke no English. They learned enough to get by, but mostly associated with other Italian Americans and lived in the Little Italy neighborhood of Baltimore. They had children, including my grandfather (first generation American), who knew Italian to communicate with his family but learned English in school and spoke English in most areas of his life. He was raised in America and wanted to fit into mainstream culture. He had an Italian first name but went by an American nickname (which he legally added to his name as an adult). Sure, he lived in Maryland, which has lots of Catholics, but his family was from Southern Italy, so they were "different" and the "wrong type of European" so they were on the lower end of the white totem pole. By the time my dad was born (generation 2) and was raised entirely in English. All of the native Italians were getting old and died when my father was young. My dad learned some Italian words, but nowhere near enough to speak or read fluently. Anything remotely Italian now culturally in our family is family tradition, which is a hybrid of Italian-American ideals and a far cry from native Italy.

My point: unless entirely secluded from the general population for multiple generations, most immigrant families will eventually speak English. The exception would be if you lived in a region of the country where a huge chunk of the population still speaks that language, which at this point has historically been happening for centuries.

Miami is a good example of this. The older Cuban population still has a number of folks who don't speak English but their kids and especially their grandkids are all bilingual. Spanish is definitely the primary language down there and I don't see that changing but I've rarely, if ever, run into a true language barrier.

I got along just fine using English only in Miami.  However, I sometimes had to say no habla, no comprende.

[Pete from Boston]

The way I see it is that I'm an American and I shouldn't have to learn a second language.

Who is forcing you to learn a new language?

My high school.

US41 was saying he shouldn't be forced to learn Spanish to get by in society. Having a foreign language requirement for school is different. For one, it doesn't specify what language. I'll bet you have at least Spanish and French to choose from, if not German and Latin as well. And secondly, even if you don't become fluent (or even conversational) in a foreign language, studying one is a valuable academic experience and will help you better understand English grammar.

I took Latin in HS and Spanish in college and am glad I did.

To imply that one can't get by in society without knowing Spanish is a stretch, to put it kindly.  That implication makes it sound like "It's not fair that those people write and say things I can't read.  I'm entitled to know what they're saying!"  because other than things like that, you're not currently being prevented from a fulfilling, normal life.

And FYI, I realize this is mostly about personal convenience, but in a shorter time than it'll take to get English made the official language, you could develop a good working knowledge of Spanish.  Your choice.

[1995hoo]

My high school.

Then times have changed.  When I was going to high school, foreign languages were elective, but students who were attempting what was called a "college-preparatory curriculum" (which was not a formal requirement) were strongly urged to have at least two years of a foreign language.  I took four years of Latin.

When I was growing up, Fairfax County offered two diplomas, a 20-credit version and a 22-credit version. The 20-credit version was aimed more at people who were focusing on vocational courses and the 22-credit version was aimed more at people heading for college. To get the 22-credit diploma you either had to take at least three years of one foreign language or at least two years each of two foreign languages. I took five years of Latin (one in junior high, the other four in high school) and I then made the mistake of taking a further semester's worth in college despite having placed out of the UVA foreign language requirement via test scores.

[US71]

My high school.

Then times have changed.  When I was going to high school, foreign languages were elective, but students who were attempting what was called a "college-preparatory curriculum" (which was not a formal requirement) were strongly urged to have at least two years of a foreign language.  I took four years of Latin.

It isn't new to me.  We had two years required at my public school–four years recommended–a few decades ago now.   Also two years required in junior high.

College (again, state school) required two passing semesters or testing out (thanks to the six years of preparation, I was able to test out).

When I was in college, it was three semesters of foreign language. Then it was changed to FOUR semesters.

[billtm]

My high school.

Then times have changed.  When I was going to high school, foreign languages were elective, but students who were attempting what was called a "college-preparatory curriculum" (which was not a formal requirement) were strongly urged to have at least two years of a foreign language.  I took four years of Latin.

It isn't new to me.  We had two years required at my public school–four years recommended–a few decades ago now.   Also two years required in junior high.

College (again, state school) required two passing semesters or testing out (thanks to the six years of preparation, I was able to test out).

My high school requires either three years of one language or four years of two different languages. For example, one could either take three years of French or take two years of French followed by two years of Spanish.

[Big John]

Where I went to college, the German I took in High School satisified the requirements for my BS degree.  But some college foreign language (don't know how much) was required for a BA degree.

[The Nature Boy]

I took Latin for my foreign language. While it greatly expanded my vocabulary, it has little practical use.

[US71]

I took Latin for my foreign language. While it greatly expanded my vocabulary, it has little practical use.

I know a fellow who is constantly being asked for translations, usually for mottos.

[Duke87]

My point: unless entirely secluded from the general population for multiple generations, most immigrant families will eventually speak English. The exception would be if you lived in a region of the country where a huge chunk of the population still speaks that language, which at this point has historically been happening for centuries.

This situation also isn't as rare as some might think.

Indeed. My grandparents came here not knowing English. My grandfather learned enough to get by as a construction worker but my grandmother learned none for a solid 25 years living in the US because she had no need. Her family, her neighbors, the person behind the counter at the store down the street, etc. all spoke Italian. What forced her to start learning English was when my parents started dating, since my mother and her family didn't speak Italian. Even after that, my grandmother's English was very rudimentary and she would still always speak to my father in Italian. My parents attempted to raise me bilingual, but it didn't really work out and my understanding of Italian today is even more rudimentary than my grandmother's understanding of English was. I do have a lot of appreciation for my Italian heritage but really, I am American much more than anything else.

So, chalk it up to another case of there being nothing new under the sun. My ancestors faced the same discrimination 50-100 years ago that immigrants from Latin America face today, for many of the same reasons. Yawn.


As for foreign language being a requirement in high school, they do that because college admissions boards usually look for it and high schools don't want their students to graduate unable to get into college. Most people don't become competent speakers of the language they study, but that isn't really the point - the point is that when you study a language you aren't a native speaker of, it forces you to deconstruct it logically and it gives you a much greater appreciation for how language works. This in turn improves your writing, speaking, and listening skills in your native language.

For this reason I absolutely support requiring high school students to study a foreign language, although I really do wish schools would broaden their choices. My high school offered Latin, Spanish, French, and Italian - all Romance languages, so really a rather undiverse set of options. Although I suppose public schools can only offer so much with funds available and it isn't practical for them to cover anywhere near all the world's major languages.

I was not required to take any foreign language classes in college, and I did not... although I could have, and it would have counted towards my elective requirements.

[The Nature Boy]

My high school offered only Spanish and Latin. The bare minimum seems to be to just offer Spanish. I assume because it's easier to find teachers who can teach high school level Spanish.

And I once met a dude whose grandmother only spoke Navajo. Of course, she'd probably call this thread BS.

[vdeane]

I have nothing more than long-forgotten high school Spanish.  I believe the foreign language regents is required in New York.  My district offered a choice of Spanish, French, and German for those who started in 6th grade but for those who got held back to 8th grade like me, Spanish was the only one (a pity, French would be much more useful for me due to NY's proximity to Quebec).  At the high school level, Russian and Latin were available as electives but otherwise didn't count towards graduation.

I can't say I got better at grammar or language... everything was essentially rote memorization of vocabulary and verb conjugations (they claim that romance languages have less exceptions than English, but it sure didn't feel like it!).

[jakeroot]

I'm dropping in with my own two cents as usual . . . My high school offered English (what?), Spanish, German, French, Japanese, Korean, and ASL (which counts in the Puyallup School District as a foreign language).

You are required to take two years of a foreign language, but they suggest three.

There are no options for foreign languages before grade.