Question about indenpendent cities and consolodations

[Mapmikey]

Didn't we have a huge blowup on a thread here several months ago where someone claimed that people living in suburbs were cheating the city, because they get all the benefits of living in a metro area (jobs, cultural activities, etc.) without having to pay for them?

The City of Fredericksburg is cheaper tax-wise than the two surrounding counties (Spotsylvania and Stafford), by quite a bit in some areas of taxation.  I'm willing to bet this is true for a lot of the smaller independent cities (by land area).  In fact, maybe I'm cheating them as I get to use their landfills.

Mapmikey

[oscar]

I don't believe there have been any new independent cities in over 40 years.

Salem became an independent city in 1967, graduating from town status.  This was another gambit to avoid annexation by an adjacent independent city (Roanoke).

Virginia Beach and Chesapeake cities, mentioned above, were each formed by the merger of a county with an existing independent city.  Would something like that be a less onerous process for Fairfax County? 

[1995hoo]

I don't believe there have been any new independent cities in over 40 years.

Salem became an independent city in 1967, graduating from town status.  This was another gambit to avoid annexation by an adjacent independent city (Roanoke).

.... 

I believe that's 47 years ago. Even without doing the math I'd have a pretty good reason to know it'd have to be more than 41 years ago.... 

[oscar]

I don't believe there have been any new independent cities in over 40 years.

Salem became an independent city in 1967, graduating from town status.  This was another gambit to avoid annexation by an adjacent independent city (Roanoke).

.... 

I believe that's 47 years ago. Even without doing the math I'd have a pretty good reason to know it'd have to be more than 41 years ago.... 

Yeah, I forgot to mention that Salem was the last one, more recent than Virginia Beach and Chesapeake.

BTW, Salem city apparently nominally is still the county seat for Roanoke County, as it was before the city was created.  When Salem was created, it let the county keep its courthouse and jail there, but the county's administrative offices moved out of the city (but apparently are now within the city limits of adjacent Roanoke city).

[froggie]

Last one to do it was Suffolk in 1974.  So yes it's been 40 years since it was done.

Regarding an earlier comment of 6a's, state law still allows a county to become an independent city...it's all laid out in Title 15.2, Chapter 39 of the Code of Virginia.  Per Section 15.2-3907, there is a population minimum, but it's not nearly as high as 6a suggested.  The jurisdiction can be as low as 20,000 in population if they have a population density of at least 300 people per square mile, otherwise the county must have at least 50,000 in population and a population density of at least 140 people per square mile.

In addition, per Section 15.2-3918, any county that becomes an independent city may continue to have VDOT maintain/operate the streets for a period up to 10 years after becoming an independent city.  This would give the new city time to create/phase-in their own transportation office.

[Mapmikey]

Poquoson - 1975
Manassas Park - 1975
Suffolk was the City of Nanesmond from 1972-74 before becoming merging with the previously long-existing City of Suffolk


Loose ends from other posts:

There was also an Elizabeth City County until 1952
There was a City of Manchester until 1910 (became part of Richmond)

Mapmikey

[bulldog1979]

AFAIK, only in southwestern Alaska is there a U.S. county seat physically located in another county (Lake and Peninsula Borough, whose county seat is in King Salmon in Bristol Bay Borough). 

Two counties in South Dakota have seats outside of their jurisdictions. Shannon and Todd counties were two of the last three unorganized counties in the state, and they were granted their charters in 1983. Shannon County contracts with Fall River County for its Auditor, Treasurer, and Registrar of Deeds, placing the seat of government in Hot Springs. Todd County contracts with Tripp County for those three officers, placing its seat of government in Tripp County. And I thought the idea that Leelanau County moved its seat a decade ago out of the Village of Suttons Bay into a section of Suttons Bay Township was weird enough. (There are a few county seats in unincorporated communities, but that's the only one credited directly to a township.)

[KEVIN_224]

I know parts of Maine and (I think?) northern New Hampshire have those unorganzied townships. I do know that there are no independent cities in New England. The closest independent city I can even think of is Baltimore.

Staying in the northeast...I know city functions for Philadelphia were made coterminous with Philadelphia County, PA years ago.

[Mapmikey]

Several links on this page that discuss jurisdictional funding though not where VDOT is responsible for the maintenance themselves.

Mapmikey

forgot to include the link...  http://www.virginiadot.org/business/local-assistance-programs.asp#Urban Highways

[Doctor Whom]

one is Baltimore,

As I understand it, other cities in Maryland could become "independent" cities like Baltimore, but have not, probably because as an independent city they would have to take on "county" responsibilities like public schools, a judicial system, a jail and other matters.

Annapolis threatened to secede from Anne Arundel County a few times (mostly in disputes over transportation funding), but nothing ever came of it.

Takoma Park threatened to secede from Montgomery and Prince George's counties (it was in both before the county boundary changed) to operate its own school system, but city officials in Takoma Park wanted the counties to pay for that school system.  How well that went over is left to the reader as an exercise.

[Brandon]

This is an interesting read so far as we do not have independent cities in Illinois.  We do have, with the exception of the City of Chicago, school districts (and many other districts) that are not co-terminus with county or municipal boundaries.  Thus, a municipality can span 5 or 6 school districts and 3 or 4 counties, and those same school districts may be in multiple counties.

[froggie]

We do have, with the exception of the City of Chicago, school districts (and many other districts) that are not co-terminus with county or municipal boundaries.  Thus, a municipality can span 5 or 6 school districts and 3 or 4 counties, and those same school districts may be in multiple counties.

Same thing in Minnesota, with the exception of the "Special School Districts" in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

[The Nature Boy]

We do have, with the exception of the City of Chicago, school districts (and many other districts) that are not co-terminus with county or municipal boundaries.  Thus, a municipality can span 5 or 6 school districts and 3 or 4 counties, and those same school districts may be in multiple counties.

Same thing in Minnesota, with the exception of the "Special School Districts" in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

The Hanover, NH - Norwich, VT district crosses state lines. I'm not sure where else that's done.

[6a]

Regarding an earlier comment of 6a's, state law still allows a county to become an independent city...it's all laid out in Title 15.2, Chapter 39 of the Code of Virginia.  Per Section 15.2-3907, there is a population minimum, but it's not nearly as high as 6a suggested.  The jurisdiction can be as low as 20,000 in population if they have a population density of at least 300 people per square mile, otherwise the county must have at least 50,000 in population and a population density of at least 140 people per square mile.

There might be a bit of a misunderstanding there...I was referring to Arlington's inability to become a city because it's too big.  Wikipedia tells me the magic number is 1000 people per square mile in Virginia, but that's not sourced in the article.  I was thinking of something like the system in NC where special laws are passed to include only Mecklenburg County using wording like "only in counties over 750,000 in size."  In VA it's apparently "only in counties over 1000/sq mi."

I did mention something about towns shrinking under the limit to incorporate but that's another ball of wax entirely.  Sorry for the confusion.

[oscar]

There might be a bit of a misunderstanding there...I was referring to Arlington's inability to become a city because it's too big.  Wikipedia tells me the magic number is 1000 people per square mile in Virginia, but that's not sourced in the article.  I was thinking of something like the system in NC where special laws are passed to include only Mecklenburg County using wording like "only in counties over 750,000 in size."  In VA it's apparently "only in counties over 1000/sq mi."

Fairfax County, which has toyed with becoming an independent city, would have a similar issue if 1000 people/square mile is indeed the maximum density for a city.  Fairfax County has a much larger area than Arlington, but also a much higher population.  Its population/square mile is about 2,657.

Arlington County's ratio is about 8,508:1.

I haven't yet searched the Virginia Code to find out what the magic number, if any, really is.  Maybe 1995hoo will beat me to the punch.

[1995hoo]

There might be a bit of a misunderstanding there...I was referring to Arlington's inability to become a city because it's too big.  Wikipedia tells me the magic number is 1000 people per square mile in Virginia, but that's not sourced in the article.  I was thinking of something like the system in NC where special laws are passed to include only Mecklenburg County using wording like "only in counties over 750,000 in size."  In VA it's apparently "only in counties over 1000/sq mi."

Fairfax County, which has toyed with becoming an independent city, would have a similar issue if 1000 people/square mile is indeed the maximum density for a city.  Fairfax County has a much larger area than Arlington, but also a much higher population.  Its population/square mile is about 2,657.

Arlington County's ratio is about 8,508:1.

I haven't yet searched the Virginia Code to find out what the magic number, if any, really is.  Maybe 1995hoo will beat me to the punch.

Not tonight or tomorrow. Got to visit the eye doctor in the morning and we're going to the Billy Joel concert tomorrow night. So please feel free to find it before I do! 

[Mapmikey]

Criteria is found here: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-3907 for a county to become a city
There is additional criteria that exists for a town within a county that has just become a city, if that town wishes to become its own city instead of being in the larger city that was created by county conversion: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-3916


Does not seem to be anything regarding being too big.  Falls Church exceeds the supposed magic threshold (6900:1) as does Manassas Park (5640:1), Portsmouth (2000:1); Hampton (2675:1); Salem (1700:1); Richmond (3415:1); Petersburg (1400:1); etc. I searched several more before giving up and they were all over 1000:1 except Poquoson which was 150:1.

Mapmikey

[froggie]

There might be a bit of a misunderstanding there...I was referring to Arlington's inability to become a city because it's too big.

No it isn't.  As mapmikey noted (and I can confirm having read through the state statutes myself), there is no upper limit...just the lower limit that I cited in my previous post.

[6a]

Wait, are you trying to tell me something on Wikipedia is wrong? My world...

Edit: To be more on topic, does anyone have information on a similar situation with consolidated governments? Athens-Clarke, GA, Indianapolis-Marion, Lexington-Fayette, KY, and Nashville-Davidson (I think) come to mind right away. Are those areas banned from further annexation? I know in Ohio a city adjust township boundaries if needed, in cases of annexing an area outside its "home" township. They can even make the township jump a county line (Dublin & Washington Twp.) but that's a township.  I could only imagine a consolidated government trying to jump county lines might cause some issues but is it actually forbidden?

[hbelkins]

Lexington-Fayette has what's called an urban services boundary. I'm not sure the process by which land outside that area gets to be included.

[woodpusher]

The Census Bureau listed Petersburg as separate from any county for the first time in 1890; I'm guessing because it was formed from parts of Chesterfield, Dinwiddie, and Prince George Counties.  It was footnoted as "independent since 1880." (presumably shortly after the census was taken). 

Charlottesville (under Albemarle), Fredericksburg (under Spotsylvania), and Williamsburg (under James City) were listed under their respective counties but footnoted as "independent since 1880."

Alexandria, Danville, Lynchburg, Manchester (listed as a city and a district),  Norfolk, Portsmouth, Richmond, Roanoke, Staunton, and Winchester were listed under their respective counties as cities but not footnoted as independent. 

Bristol, Buena Vista, Newport News (listed as a town and a district), and Radford were listed as towns (and hence county subdivisions) in the census of 1890.

These 18 jurisdictions were broken out separately from any counties in the census of 1900.  (In anticipation of the adoption of the Constitution of 1902?)  Although John Long of Newberry Library mentions nothing about Petersburg's connection to Chesterfield County in his historical GIS.  Also his 1902 western boundary of Petersburg was clearly a stray pencil mark or a fold in the map and clearly not a county boundary at all.  I pointed this out to him but he denied he had made a mistake. 

Various state constitutions prior to 1902 explicitly named the cities of Richmond, Williamsburg, Norfolk (also the borough of Norfolk 1776-1830), Petersburg (also the town of Petersburg 1830), Portsmouth, and the towns of Lynchburg, Staunton, and Fredericksburg separately from their counties in describing house, senate, and judicial districts. 

I'm inclined to think that the Census Bureau is right, but maybe others can shed some light.

I'll have to check out Maryland, Missouri, and Nevada. 

[lordsutch]

Edit: To be more on topic, does anyone have information on a similar situation with consolidated governments? Athens-Clarke, GA, Indianapolis-Marion, Lexington-Fayette, KY, and Nashville-Davidson (I think) come to mind right away. Are those areas banned from further annexation?

As far as I know, no state allows county boundaries to be changed unilaterally by a county; presumably they can annex any municipality within the county that agrees to be dissolved (or would automatically be deemed to have annexed the municipality if it did abandon its charter), but a consolidated city-county that annexed land outside its boundary would no longer really be consolidated.

While not the exact situation in question, when Macon and Bibb County (Ga.) were consolidated in January, the small portion of Macon in Jones County was deliberately de-annexed from Macon to avoid the situation where the consolidated commission would have authority over part of Jones County. (There is an interlocal services agreement now allowing Macon-Bibb to continue trash collection services in the ex-Macon part of Jones.) As far as I know, the idea of changing the county boundary to align with the city boundary in that area was never broached, even though that would be within the legislature's power.

[SP Cook]

Lexington-Fayette has what's called an urban services boundary. I'm not sure the process by which land outside that area gets to be included.

My daughter recently moved to Lexington.  From dealing with relators and such, I get the following idea:

- The governments of the city and county are merged.  But the state still considers them to be seperate, the various county offices lost their powers to city officers.  The county government (Judge Executive, Fiscal Court, etc) still exists, but has only only a few remnant powers, mostly ceremonial, as the city governement has the real power.  The Sheriff still exists, but just serves warrants and court papers and provides bailifs, as the city police do the cop work. 

- Everybody in the whole county votes in the city elections, even if you live outside the "urban services boundry" on a one person-one vote basis (meaning representatives from rural areas vote on legislation that does not effect their voters.) 

- If you live outside the "boundry" you get less services from the city/county.  And you pay less taxes.  There is a road near my daughter's new place that is the boundry in that area.  On one side the city picks up the trash, on the other you have to deal with it yourself.   I think fire, parks, and other services are likewise independent outside the boundry.  However the police work the whole county.  The "rural" area is mostly the eastern edge of the county.

- The process of moving the boundry works pretty similar to annexiation in other places.  However, it has to end (barring a Constitution amendment) at the county line, because only Fayette County is Constitutionally authorized to have such a government.

Over here in WV, Fairmont (dying rust belt town) has made noise about merging with the county, as such a thing would be the largest city in the state by population and allow it to tax most of the retail developments which are outside of town.  Morgantown (which is hemmed in by more affluent unincorporated areas and small towns, also has made such noise, but neither is going anywhere.  People have no need of a city government that provides no services.

[hbelkins]

Your assessment of Lexington is pretty spot-on, but Louisville and Jefferson County have also merged. However, unlike Fayette county, there are other incorporated cities inside Jefferson that were not part of the merger.

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

Your assessment of Lexington is pretty spot-on, but Louisville and Jefferson County have also merged. However, unlike Fayette county, there are other incorporated cities inside Jefferson that were not part of the merger.

Wait, are you trying to tell me something on Wikipedia is wrong? My world...

Edit: To be more on topic, does anyone have information on a similar situation with consolidated governments? Athens-Clarke, GA, Indianapolis-Marion, Lexington-Fayette, KY, and Nashville-Davidson (I think) come to mind right away. Are those areas banned from further annexation? I know in Ohio a city adjust township boundaries if needed, in cases of annexing an area outside its "home" township. They can even make the township jump a county line (Dublin & Washington Twp.) but that's a township.  I could only imagine a consolidated government trying to jump county lines might cause some issues but is it actually forbidden?

Our City-Parish government in Baton Rouge works in this matter (and presumably this works similarly with Lafayette Consolidated Government and Houma-Terrebonne Consolidated Gov't):

- For all practical purposes the executive and legislative functions of the City of BR and the Parish of East Baton Rouge are one and the same. There is a Mayor-President representing both city and parish in one office, and a Metropolitan Council that encompasses 12 single member districts covering the entire parish.

- Three other incorporated cities exist, with their own mayors, city councils, city services, etc.

- There are Departments of Public Works, Planning, Community Development, Finance etc. that have responsibility for the entire parish outside the three other incorporated cities. Some interaction occurs with the other cities. For example, DPW continues to maintain select major roadways in the City of Central. Also we attempt to collaborate with the other cities to maintain a unified GIS database with respect to streets, subdivisions, addresses, and lots/parcels.

- Many other functions of government are not completely merged. The city of BR has a distinct boundary which can and does exclude the parish's "unincorporated areas." The practical difference between living in the city versus the parish is that the city is served by BR police and fire while the unincorporated areas are served by the EBR sheriff's office and the independent fire districts. Also, the sales tax rates are slightly different.

- The various constitutional offices (assessor, registrar of voters, etc.) that exist in every parish are considered somewhat semi-independent, as they are headed by separately elected officials. I believe the city-parish is legally responsible for providing them with office space as well as other financial considerations.

In short it is not a true consolidation, but was probably the best that could be assembled from a political perspective back in 1949. The major stumbling block, IMO, is the continued distinction between the City of BR and the unincorporated area. In the Plan of Government, the city of BR is defined as the "urban area" of the parish and the unincorporated area is defined as the "rural area." (There is also an "industrial area" comprising 6 industrial districts which are basically areas where heavy industries [think refineries] get free reign while also providing some of their own services.)

The trouble is that the actual urban area has far outrun the city limits for some time now. For the first twenty-five or so years after 1949, the city was fairly aggressive in annexing newly developed outlying areas. However, Louisiana law pertaining to annexation is fairly restrictive - basically, the majority of citizens in an area have to formally petition to be included in the city limits. Over time, the differences in service provision between the "urban" and "rural" areas became minor, thus removing any incentive for annexation into the city limits. So the unincorporated area now includes large swaths of suburban development, including many of BR's major retail centers. This makes the city of BR appear to be smaller than it actually is, and leaves us vulnerable to incorporation movements such as St. George (search online for a description, it's too convoluted and distressing to explain here).