News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

What if each state had two capitals?

Started by empirestate, September 02, 2015, 08:47:25 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

noelbotevera

Quote from: Zeffy on September 02, 2015, 06:58:10 PM
I would think in New Jersey, Trenton would remain the capital solely because of the history. I couldn't think of what a second capital would be. Newark makes sense given it's layout, but it's too close to New York City in my opinion... Morristown sounds nice though.
I'd say New Brunswick for its location, and then Vineland for Southern NJ. Sorry Trenton.


TravelingBethelite

Quote from: empirestate on September 02, 2015, 11:25:37 AM

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 02, 2015, 09:35:37 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 02, 2015, 09:22:01 AM

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 02, 2015, 09:00:36 AM
Connecticut (Delaware, Rhode Island, etc) is too small to need another capital  :-D One works for us just fine.  :cool: :thumbsup:

Well, of course it is. :-) But, for whatever reason, the decision is made that you have to have two; which do you pick?


iPhone

Okay. Here goes:
Connecticut: Hartford/New London (East CT is not very well-represented)
Rhode Island: Providence/Newport
Delaware: Dover/Wilmington

No different choices for option 2 (not retaining the current capital)? It seems that with such small states, you'd definitely want the two as far apart as possible–unless you're choosing them by a different rationale, of course.


iPhone

What do you mean by option 2?
"Imprisoned by the freedom of the road!" - Ronnie Milsap
See my photos at: http://bit.ly/1Qi81ws

Now I decide where I go...

2018 Ford Fusion SE - proud new owner!

jakeroot

Quote from: Bruce on September 02, 2015, 06:50:55 PM
Washington needs one per side of the Cascades. Olympia and Spokane/Tri-Cities/Yakima/Wenatchee (they can fight a bloody war over the capital referendum).

Hell, the need is so strong, I'm still staggered that we're one state, seeing as how politically independent each side of the Cascades is.

noelbotevera

Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on September 02, 2015, 06:50:55 PM
Washington needs one per side of the Cascades. Olympia and Spokane/Tri-Cities/Yakima/Wenatchee (they can fight a bloody war over the capital referendum).

Hell, the need is so strong, I'm still staggered that we're one state, seeing as how politically independent each side of the Cascades is.
Once  years and years pass of staying together, it's inseparable. You can't separate Washington, no way, no how.

pianocello

Quote from: Brandon on September 02, 2015, 12:17:20 PM
Some of these states chose their capital in the 1800s that way.  Columbus and Indianapolis come to mind.  Lansing was chosen that way as well (nothing but a sawmill existed there at the time).  And Madison was planned to be the capital from the start.  Of all the Old Northwest states, only Illinois shoehorned a capital into a preexisting city, Springfield.

I find it rather hilarious that Lansing was chosen out of political spite. I never knew that.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 02, 2015, 06:39:16 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on September 02, 2015, 05:56:22 PM
Nebraska: Lincoln and North Platte
Iowa: Des Moines and Cedar Rapids
South Dakota: Pierre and Sioux Falls
I'd prefer Kearney over Lincoln.

I think Des Moines is good enough.

I think Pierre is fine.

I would probably go with Iowa City instead of Cedar Rapids. More accessible, has the University, and it's been capital before. But yeah, Des Moines is good enough.

As for the other states I know well, I'll agree with others and say that Chicago and Marquette (MI) are the best ways to go. For Indiana, I'd probably say South Bend or Fort Wayne to represent the northern half of the state.
Davenport, IA -> Valparaiso, IN -> Ames, IA -> Orlando, FL -> Gainesville, FL -> Evansville, IN

Bruce

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 02, 2015, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on September 02, 2015, 06:50:55 PM
Washington needs one per side of the Cascades. Olympia and Spokane/Tri-Cities/Yakima/Wenatchee (they can fight a bloody war over the capital referendum).

Hell, the need is so strong, I'm still staggered that we're one state, seeing as how politically independent each side of the Cascades is.
Once  years and years pass of staying together, it's inseparable. You can't separate Washington, no way, no how.

I'm sure both sides would be happier if separated, even if the west loses a large agricultural region and the east loses access to the Seattle metro area's wealth and influence.

Heck, I'd be happy with the Seattle metro area splitting from the rest, after the debacle that was the last legislative session. Having to ask to tax ourselves over transit AND being blue-balled by politicians who are not directly involved at all pissed off everyone.

Jardine

Quote from: 1 on September 02, 2015, 05:48:24 PM
Quote from: Jardine on September 02, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
How about a second capitol OUTSIDE of the state?

Someplace NICE, where everyone would like an excuse to go visit ??


:-D

Georgia: Atlanta and Tblisi

Tblisi ?  Nah, how about Quindaro ?


:wow:

empirestate

Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 02, 2015, 09:05:22 AM
Maine: Augusta and Portland
New Hampshire: Concord and Berlin
Vermont: Montpelier and Bennington
Massachusetts: Boston and Springfield

North Carolina: Raleigh and Charlotte
South Carolina: Columbia and Charleston
Virginia: Richmond and Alexandria


I thought I'd advance some to get the discussion flowing. NH and VT were based on trying to get adequate representation in an underrepresented area relatively far from the current capital. 

So, you wouldn't do any versions where the current capital is not kept? Like Manchester/Berlin, NH or Bennington/Burlington, VT, etc.?

Quote from: Henry on September 02, 2015, 11:59:19 AM
Here are ten ideas of my own:

FL: Tallahassee and Miami
GA: Atlanta and Savannah
KS: Topeka and Wichita
MI: Lansing and Detroit
MO: Jefferson City and St. Louis, or Jefferson City and Kansas City
NV: Carson City and Las Vegas
OH: Columbus and Cleveland, or Columbus and Cincinnati
OK: Oklahoma City and Tulsa
TN: Nashville and Memphis
WA: Olympia and Spokane

Same question: always keeping the current capital, no matter what? For example, St. Louis/Kansas City, MO would seem to jump out as an obvious way to go.

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 02, 2015, 06:39:16 PM
I think Des Moines is good enough.

I think Pierre is fine.

OK, so you keep Des Moines and Pierre for your option 2; what are the second cities you'd pick?

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 02, 2015, 08:40:17 PM
What do you mean by option 2?

That's the second version you can come up with, the one where you don't have to keep the current capital. In option 1, one of the cities has to be the current capital; for option 2, you can pick two new cities, or elect to keep it the same as option 1.

For example, my option 1 for New York was Albany (the current capital) and New York. My option 2 was Syracuse and New York.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 02, 2015, 09:08:54 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 02, 2015, 08:47:25 AM
I'll start with an obvious one, New York:
1) Albany, New York
2) Syracuse, New York

I'd use New York City as a capital.  If you want to better represent different regions of the state, the most populated city in the entire country should be represented.

So would I; that's why I included it in both of my versions. :-)

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 02, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
NYC as the capital?  I suspect most  of upstate would secede.  Isn't there a feeling of resentment upstate that NYC already gets the bulk of money and attention?

Well, that's why there would be two, isn't it? I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would like to see this hypothetical exercise come to actual fruition, for this very reason.  :nod:

empirestate

Going with a separate post to add a few more examples of my own:

Massachusetts:
1) Boston, Northampton. I like the idea of a not-quite-biggest city for the western capital.
2) Plymouth, Northampton. This gets Cape Cod a little closer to the action, though in truth I don't think I'd really opt to move the second capital out of Boston.

New Hampshire:
1) Concord, Littleton. Kind of an arbitrary choice; for some reason I want one of the capitals to be in the Connecticut Valley.
2) Littleton, Manchester. Again, moving out of Concord just because I can, but I don't think an option 2 is really necessary here.

Vermont:
1) Montpelier, Rutland. (Bennington's a little too non-central, even just for southern VT.)
2) Rutland, Burlington. (Though I like the idea of St. Johnsbury, too.)

Connecticut:
1) Hartford, Stamford.
2) Stamford, Norwich. (New London is obvious here, but I wanted one of them to be inland.)

Rhode Island:
1) Providence, Newport.
2) East Providence, New Shoreham. Just kiddin'.  :-D

Maine:
1) Augusta, Presque Isle.
2) Portland, Bangor. (Or maybe Portland, Millinocket.)

New Jersey:
1) Trenton, Morristown.
2) Morristown, Hammonton.

Pennsylvania:
1) Harrisburg, Pittsburgh.
2) Pittsburgh, Reading.

Delaware:
1) Dover, Wilmington.
2) Wilmington, Milford.

CNGL-Leudimin

Quote from: 1 on September 02, 2015, 05:48:24 PM
Quote from: Jardine on September 02, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
How about a second capitol OUTSIDE of the state?

Someplace NICE, where everyone would like an excuse to go visit ??


:-D

Georgia: Atlanta and Tblisi

Oregon: Salem and Zaragoza :bigass:
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

freebrickproductions

For Alabama, I'd say Montgomery and either Birmingham or Huntsville.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

elsmere241

In Delaware, Wilmington is already the second capital.  More day-to-day state work occurs there than at Dover.

Sub-Urbanite

Some Western thoughts:

Washington: I'd move the executive branch to some south King County suburb, like Kent or Federal Way.
Oregon: Executive branch moves to Portland. I know way too many people who drive 100 miles a day to go to work in Salem.
California: Legislative branch moves to Avalon. Because it's beautiful, it's closer to 2 of the 3 population centers, but some sequestration for legislators is good.
Nevada: Move everything but the judiciary to Las Vegas. Carson City gets to keep the courts.
Arizona: Move the judiciary to Tucson, where the law school is.
Utah: Tough one. Utah's so centralized to Salt Lake that they can't even move the prison out of the valley. Not sure there's an improvement to be made.
Idaho: Similar to Utah, not sure there's an improvement to be had here.

Henry

Since you put it that way, here are my alternatives:

FL: Jacksonville and Miami
KS: Kansas City and Wichita
MI: Sault Ste. Marie and Detroit
MO: St. Louis and Kansas City
NV: Reno and Las Vegas
OH: Cleveland and Cincinnati
TN: Knoxville and Memphis
WA: Seattle and Spokane
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

MikeTheActuary

I'd ask the question: given the current state of the telecommunications art, is it actually necessary/relevant to have a designated state capital any more?

Sure, there is presumably a designated place where legislators ought to meet, so the lobbyists know where to schmooze...but it's not strictly necessary for various state agencies to be headquartered in that location, or for the state's executive or supreme judicial officials to be physically located near there.

doorknob60

Idaho: Boise and Lewiston (or Moscow or CDA can fight for it)
Oregon: Salem and Bend (or Portland and Bend if we want slightly more separation distance-wise)
Washington: Olympia and Spokane

US 41

For Indiana I would select Indianapolis and Speedway as their both already capitals in one way or another. One is the capital of the state and the other is the racing capital of the world.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

DTComposer

Quote from: NickCPDX on September 03, 2015, 02:23:45 PM
Some Western thoughts:

Washington: I'd move the executive branch to some south King County suburb, like Kent or Federal Way.
Oregon: Executive branch moves to Portland. I know way too many people who drive 100 miles a day to go to work in Salem.
California: Legislative branch moves to Avalon. Because it's beautiful, it's closer to 2 of the 3 population centers, but some sequestration for legislators is good.
Nevada: Move everything but the judiciary to Las Vegas. Carson City gets to keep the courts.
Arizona: Move the judiciary to Tucson, where the law school is.
Utah: Tough one. Utah's so centralized to Salt Lake that they can't even move the prison out of the valley. Not sure there's an improvement to be made.
Idaho: Similar to Utah, not sure there's an improvement to be had here.

I'm confused. You say sequestration of the legislature is good in placing them in Avalon, but you keep/move the legislature in/to the largest city/metro in the case of Phoenix/Las Vegas?

I love the visual idea of Avalon as a capital, but in real life it's simply too small/too anti-development (with good reason) to be able to support the infrastructure, even if it's just the legislature. If you're looking for aesthetics, perhaps Santa Barbara or Monterey? Lake Tahoe?

On the other hand, sending the legislature to a resort town seems like a bad idea. I want my elected representatives to want the job, not the perks, so they should be willing to do their jobs in a workaday city. From that standpoint, Sacramento works well, as it has the infrastructure/resources of a large city, but (no offense) is not that glamorous.

Using that logic, if I had to do a second capital, maybe Riverside? Could be a good economic boost for the Inland Empire as well.

kkt


noelbotevera

Iowa I'm pretty uncertain about because Des Moines is a pretty good location... :hmmm:
South Dakota I'd go with Belle Fourche and Watertown.

kkt

Washington: Olympia/Moses Lake.  Moses Lake is more centrally located within eastern Washington than Spokane; from pretty much everywhere in eastern Washington you could drive to Moses Lake and back in a day.  Land is cheap, and it's big enough to support a government.

Olympia is pretty well located for a western capital.  If it had to move, maybe Tacoma or Federal Way.  But Olympia isn't bad.


US 41

For Alaska I would have to say either Anchorage or Fairbanks. Juneau is just an awful place for a state capital. Most of the state has to drive through a foreign country just to get there. Not to mention you have to take a ferry to get there too. It's just a bad place for a state capital. Fairbanks or Anchorage would make so much more sense.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

Road Hog

Since Arkansas loves dual county seats, dual capitals should be right up their alley.

Little Rock is right in the center and should stay. I would put the second in Fort Smith instead of Fayetteville because it's easier to get to for a bigger part of the state.

roadman65

Mine would be Tallahassee for the Florida Panhandle as that always to me seemed like another state anyway.
The rest of Florida should be Tampa.

In New Jersey it would be Trenton for only Central Jersey.   Jersey City for North Jersey, and Vineland for South Jersey.

In Texas it should be El Paso for West Texas, Amarillo for the Panhandle, Dallas for North East Texas, San Antonio for South Central, and Houston for South East.

I know they are all more than two, but if we have two why not more for larger populated states or larger land area.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Thing 342

For Virginia, i'd add a satellite capital in Roanoke or Abingdon to serve the far western parts of the state, which are nearly 6 hours away from Richmond.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.