Michigan: Snyder To Call For 60% Hike In Vehicle Reg. Fees For Roads

Started by nds76, January 20, 2012, 09:50:50 PM

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jOnstar

Snyder will not give up until he gets some hike to pass. Didn't he try to run this by last year, just double? Our roads could use some help, but I still don't trust all these hikes and I still wonder where all the money really goes. If Snyder was willing to negotiate a little on the 60 percent... like maybe 30 to 45%, then I would be ok it.

InterstateNG

Your state is hemorrhaging residents (I'm one of them, left in September) and your roads need more than "some" help.  What's curious is that Snyder wants to sink money into anything.
I demand an apology.

jOnstar

He he... I still wonder why I came back to Michigan a couple of years ago when everyone was doing whatever they could to get out. Snyder had his 2nd state of the state meeting a couple of nights ago. He did mention the roads, but not as much as his agenda to get that new border crossing in, that everyone is still rejecting. I got to give it up to the guy that he is persistant when Granholm (former Michigan governer for anyone who didn't know) just took up space. Of course... Snyders plans call for money from people that don't have anything anymore, and the state can only bleed so much population before there is nothing left. I am sure its the same story in many other states. I was living in Cleveland for a few months a couple years back, and it wasn't that much of a change from the Detroit Metro area. Although Cleveland had a few more jobs and variety of jobs.

As for the roads... I would love to see Michigan have the condition above fair for once, but I don't ever see this happening. It would be so nice to drive a 20 mile stretch of I-75 without hitting a pothole.

nds76

I'm not really sure what else we can do for the roads. This actually may be cheaper than a gas tax hike. All I know is that something has to be done. Look how many years Michigan roads have been deficient. If we keep waiting for repairs they will just get worse and end up costing more. This is a major investment we need to take on. I would take this over tolling.

JREwing78

As a former Michigan resident now living in Wisconsin, I'll tell you this much: the fear of a gas tax hike is completely irrational and idiotic. This is coming from someone who would pay considerably less in registration fees than if a higher gas tax is phased in (I drive 30,000 miles a year between commuting and as a computer technician driving to job sites).

Wisconsin's base fuel tax rate (the component going to roads) is 30.9 cents a gallon for gasoline and diesel, to Michigan's 19/15 cents. Both have comparable vehicle registration fees.

Annual transportation revenue:
Michigan: $3.39 billion
Wisconsin: $3.25 billion

Population:
Michigan: 9.9 million
Wisconsin: 5.7 million

Total road system mileage:
Michigan: 122,382 miles
Wisconsin: 114,800 miles

Total road system lane miles:
Michigan: 251,344 miles
Wisconsin: 236,764 miles

Highway Vehicle-Miles Traveled (VMT):
Michigan: 96.796 trillion
Wisconsin: 58.157 trillion

Already, you can see Wisconsin's transportation budget is in far better condition. Both have similar amounts of road to maintain, and have similar amounts of income to spend on it, but Wisconsin's roads get 60% of the traffic of Michigan's.

The result is pretty predictable:

Percentage of road miles in Good or Fair condition:
Michigan: 63%
Wisconsin: 70%

Percentage of road miles in Poor condition:
Michigan: 18%
Wisconsin: 9%

Anecdotally, here's what I've found:
- Wisconsin's roads are generally in better shape, particularly local and secondary roads. Michigan's made the news for converting paved roads back to gravel. Wisconsin hasn't done that.

-The roads in general are less congested, particularly in rural areas. And if a widening is needed, it seems to come much more quickly. Stretches in Michigan like US-31 north of Ludington, US-127 south of Jackson, and US-131 south of Three Rivers would've been 4-laned long ago had they been in Wisconsin. I-94 would've been 6-laned between Benton Harbor and Ann Arbor. US-23 would've been 6-laned between Ann Arbor & Flint. Etc. Etc.

Bottom line: I pay out about $120 more a year in road use taxes in Wisconsin v.s. Michigan. That's $10 a month. I don't miss that one bit.


Sources:
www.dot.wisconsin.gov/about/docs/highlights2011-13.pdf
house.michigan.gov/hfa/pdfs/briefings_new/Transportation 11-12.pdf
michiganhighways.org/introduction.html
wisconsinhighways.org/introduction.html
michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_SLRP_TR_Conditions_Performance_12-11-06_180504_7.pdf
www.bts.gov/publications/state_transportation_statistics_2010/html/table_05_03.html
roughroads.transportation.org/roughroads_fullreport.pdf

InterstateNG

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 21, 2012, 11:10:11 AM
Anecdotally, here's what I've found:
- Wisconsin's roads are generally in better shape, particularly local and secondary roads. Michigan's made the news for converting paved roads back to gravel. Wisconsin hasn't done that.

Totally agree.  Ohio's roads are much better than Michigan's as well.

Quote-The roads in general are less congested, particularly in rural areas.

Bypasses and rural surface routes seem to be an anathema to Michigan.  The only examples that I can think of to occur in my lifetime is US-127 around St. John's and the extension of US-131 in the Cadillac area.  Compared to other states, neighboring and otherwise, they lag in this area as well.
I demand an apology.

SP Cook

Quote from: nds76 on January 20, 2012, 09:50:50 PM

Thoughts?


Government tells us all the same lie thousands of times over.

Facts?  Money is fungiable.  There is no such thing as "road money" as opposed to "welfare money" or "education money" or any other kind of money.  Money is money.

Government functions can pretty much be divided into two types of activities.  Things governements have done for thousands of years (build roads, educate, help the deserving poor, defend against agression, etc) and things government has done for 40 years (transfer wealth from those willing to work to those that are not, etc).

When government want to raise your taxes it pick things most people are for (schools or roads, usually) and then TELLS us that the tax increase is for that.  The real world translation of that far different.

Reality?  Government already has plenty of money to do its legitimate functions.  It has simply decided to spend it on other things.  So a tax increase "for roads" is really just a tax increase.  Pick whatever government program you think is the stupidest and judge the tax increase as funding that.

hbelkins

Kentucky keeps its Road Fund separate from its General Fund. A gas tax increase in Kentucky would go only to funding the Transportation Cabinet. Kentucky's Road Fund is said to be in better shape than the General Fund, thus KYTC will be exempt from most of the budget cuts the rest of the General Fund-funded state agencies are undergoing. (Except for employee raises; no one in any agency is getting them although Transportation is self-funding).


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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