How do you define Upstate NY?

[noelbotevera]

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

[empirestate]

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

I have never been able to recognize any definition of Upstate that doesn't encompass everything that isn't "downstate". Buffalo is absolutely, unequivocally Upstate for me, because it sure as heck isn't downstate.



iPhone

[The Nature Boy]

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

Clinton, Franklin, and St. Lawrence Counties also share a border with Canada. Clinton County (and possibly Franklin County) even share a media market with Montreal. WFFF out of Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY even includes Montreal in its branding.

Buffalo is undeniably the economic hub of Western New York.

[cl94]

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

Clinton, Franklin, and St. Lawrence Counties also share a border with Canada. Clinton County (and possibly Franklin County) even share a media market with Montreal. WFFF out of Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY even includes Montreal in its branding.

Buffalo is undeniably the economic hub of Western New York.

If we're including media markets as part of this, Buffalo and Toronto share one. Buffalo cable typically carries most local Toronto stations and you can get just about every Toronto radio station west of Rochester.

[kalvado]

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

Clinton, Franklin, and St. Lawrence Counties also share a border with Canada. Clinton County (and possibly Franklin County) even share a media market with Montreal. WFFF out of Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY even includes Montreal in its branding.

Buffalo is undeniably the economic hub of Western New York.

Talking about Canada influence... Once upon a time I had  some official business in Clinton county (thanks to a trooper who patrolled completely empty interstate), and DA was using french as a default speaking language.... Paperwork was, obviously, in english, though.

[vdeane]

Western NY is very much like Ontario... just look at all the Tim Hortons locations!  When I was clinching some stuff in Western NY and had the radio on 101.3 (for Rochester's station), when I started getting out of range near Arcade the station that started taking over was from either Kitchener or London (that may have been the mountains though; I can pick up Providence stations on parts of the western MassPike but only near Blandford).

I believe there was a push to make signage in Franklin County bilingual not too long ago.

[The Nature Boy]

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

Clinton, Franklin, and St. Lawrence Counties also share a border with Canada. Clinton County (and possibly Franklin County) even share a media market with Montreal. WFFF out of Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY even includes Montreal in its branding.

Buffalo is undeniably the economic hub of Western New York.

If we're including media markets as part of this, Buffalo and Toronto share one. Buffalo cable typically carries most local Toronto stations and you can get just about every Toronto radio station west of Rochester.

I was countering the idea that being close to Canada somehow invalidated Buffalo being in Western or Upstate New York.

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

Clinton, Franklin, and St. Lawrence Counties also share a border with Canada. Clinton County (and possibly Franklin County) even share a media market with Montreal. WFFF out of Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY even includes Montreal in its branding.

Buffalo is undeniably the economic hub of Western New York.

Talking about Canada influence... Once upon a time I had  some official business in Clinton county (thanks to a trooper who patrolled completely empty interstate), and DA was using french as a default speaking language.... Paperwork was, obviously, in english, though.

That's not terribly uncommon in the rural North. There are also some French speaking communities in northern Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. The Canadian influence is arguably stronger in those communities than in Buffalo (where you can argue that the influence is both ways).

[cl94]

^ God, you're up early...or I'm up real late (I did not come home from work until 3:30 am).

Nah I was up real late for that post. Sometimes I do wake up that early for no reason

Speaking of all this Upstate NY talk, I'm not sure how I would place Buffalo/Niagara Falls. It's only two hours away from Erie, Pennsylvania and Toronto, Ontario. I'm thinking of placing it in a separate region, just because of the area being mostly related to Canada. I don't really think it belongs in Upstate New York, nor Western New York, because of the aforementioned proximity to Canada.

Clinton, Franklin, and St. Lawrence Counties also share a border with Canada. Clinton County (and possibly Franklin County) even share a media market with Montreal. WFFF out of Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY even includes Montreal in its branding.

Buffalo is undeniably the economic hub of Western New York.

Talking about Canada influence... Once upon a time I had  some official business in Clinton county (thanks to a trooper who patrolled completely empty interstate), and DA was using french as a default speaking language.... Paperwork was, obviously, in english, though.

That's not terribly uncommon in the rural North. There are also some French speaking communities in northern Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. The Canadian influence is arguably stronger in those communities than in Buffalo (where you can argue that the influence is both ways).

Completely agree. The influence in Buffalo is weird. Huge Canadian cultural influence there and speaking patterns in some ways reflect GTA colloquialisms. People in Buffalo are, in general, obsessed with ketchup chips, Swiss Chalet and Tim Hortons and you will get people crossing the border just for the first 2. Conversely, people in the Niagara Region are obsessed with Wegmans and it is not uncommon to see the parking lot filled with Ontario plates.

As far as the Quebec border, get north of Saratoga Springs in New York and the French Canadian influence becomes apparent very quickly. Many are of French Canadian ancestry, many speak French and there's quite a bit of cultural influence.

[empirestate]

Another good way of determining what's Upstate is whether Cellino & Barnes' number is 888-8888, or 454-2020!

[7/8]

Another good way of determining what's Upstate is whether Cellino & Barnes' number is 888-8888, or 454-2020!

I thought they changed all their phone numbers to 888-8888 (Buffalo stations use this number now)? Also wasn't the old number 854-2020 (see below video), Or maybe it varied depending on where you are in the state?

What a great jingle, though I still think the 888-8888 number somewhat ruins it.

[empirestate]

Another good way of determining what's Upstate is whether Cellino & Barnes' number is 888-8888, or 454-2020!

I thought they changed all their phone numbers to 888-8888 (Buffalo stations use this number now)? Also wasn't the old number 854-2020 (see below video), Or maybe it varied depending on where you are in the state?

What a great jingle, though I still think the 888-8888 number somewhat ruins it.

I'm quite sure it was 454 in Rochester; that's a common local exchange. The area code wasn't in that jingle, so it was a local number. These days I'm sure they just use the toll-free 888-8888 for all markets, and they do sing the area code now.


iPhone

[cl94]

Another good way of determining what's Upstate is whether Cellino & Barnes' number is 888-8888, or 454-2020!

I thought they changed all their phone numbers to 888-8888 (Buffalo stations use this number now)? Also wasn't the old number 854-2020 (see below video), Or maybe it varied depending on where you are in the state?

What a great jingle, though I still think the 888-8888 number somewhat ruins it.

I'm quite sure it was 454 in Rochester; that's a common local exchange. The area code wasn't in that jingle, so it was a local number. These days I'm sure they just use the toll-free 888-8888 for all markets, and they do sing the area code now.


iPhone

Upstate markets use the local area code. NYC uses 800 and it really messes with the jingle, as they say "800-888-8888".

[empirestate]

Upstate markets use the local area code. NYC uses 800 and it really messes with the jingle, as they say "800-888-8888".

Yeah:
Call  | four   five four        twen - ty          | twen - ty
Eight | hund - red  eight eight eight  eight eight | eight  eight

And the red ones aren't even the same pitch.

[vdeane]

In Rochester, they use:
Call  | eight   eight eight        eight - eight          | eight - eight

[empirestate]

In Rochester, they use:
Call  | eight   eight eight        eight - eight          | eight - eight

Oh, so they've changed it.

Meanwhile, I've got to run down to J&E Grocery, 139 Reynolds St.

[slorydn1]

Empirestate, not being from there I really don't have any visual experience with anything north of the I-95 corridor through the Bronx. Though I was born and grew up in the midwest, my family roots are in the NYC metro area, to include close in New Jersey and Long Island. For me "Upstate" was always anything north of the line created by I-287 west of the Tappan Zee and across to the NW corner of the NY/CT border.

Why, you ask? Because in my minds eye as a child that was where the suburbs of NYC ended and the rest of the state began. I never thought to ask my older family members to clarify that for me for reasons unknown even to me. I just know that whenever someone in my family said the word "upstate" my mind immediately said north of that line that I mentioned. I now know that I was wrong all these years, that there is more to it than just that line on the map, and that NY is a multifaceted state with many different areas.

[kalvado]

Just resurrecting an old thread - but an interesting paper was brought up:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166083

They are analyzing "megaregions" and links between communities.
Long story short - look at fig. 5 and 6. Brown area with some adjacent white in adirondacks  is pretty much what I would call upstate - although they are calling that "hudson valley" in Fig. 11...

[cl94]

The Hudson Valley is generally upstate. The cultural Hudson Valley runs to approximately Washington County.

[kalvado]

The Hudson Valley is generally upstate. The cultural Hudson Valley runs to approximately Washington County.

Problem is that they use "hudson valley" term very lousy - part of the area they mark has nothing to do with Hudson (for example that small chunk of NH), and  most of geographical hudson valley is not within region they marked...

[hotdogPi]

Problem is that they use "hudson valley" term very lousy - part of the area they mark has nothing to do with Hudson (for example that small chunk of NH), and  most of geographical hudson valley is not within region they marked...
[/quote]

How is part of New Hampshire in the Hudson Valley?

[kalvado]

Problem is that they use "hudson valley" term very lousy - part of the area they mark has nothing to do with Hudson (for example that small chunk of NH), and  most of geographical hudson valley is not within region they marked...

How is part of New Hampshire in the Hudson Valley?
[/quote]
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?download&size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0166083.g011

[cl94]

That's a different story. "Western New England" is what most call that region. Vermont, eastern Adirondacks down to Albany.

[empirestate]

Just resurrecting an old thread - but an interesting paper was brought up:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166083

They are analyzing "megaregions" and links between communities.
Long story short - look at fig. 5 and 6. Brown area with some adjacent white in adirondacks  is pretty much what I would call upstate - although they are calling that "hudson valley" in Fig. 11...

Add the pink bit, and you've got pretty much my definition.

And the names chosen in that paper aren't terribly realistic, as others have discussed. Much of the actual Hudson Valley is in the NYC commuter sphere (what I would consider Downstate).

[Dougtone]

This map is probably most accurate when referring to Upstate vs. Downstate, in the purposes of this thread.

[empirestate]

On an outline of New York State (the one above works) find the longest straight line. Extend it east.
Above = upstate, below = downstate.

As far as the actual definition of upstate itself: Amazing. Lots of variety in every aspect. Totally different than anything south of the divide 

Sorry to revive an old thread but the apparent haze surrounding the subject baffles me 

Well, to clear out some of that haze, can you elaborate on how things are different on either side of that line (basically, the 42nd parallel)? How is somebody's life materially different in, say, Hancock than it is in Downsville? Or Kingston, rather than Saugerties? Millerton, versus Copake?