916 Area Code gets 279 Overlay

[kphoger]

there is no recall/reallocation procedure.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

Phone numbers are routinely reallocated in-carrier following cancellation of service.  If you cancel your land line service, after a certain amount of time, your phone number is able to be issued to a new customer again.  This is standard procedure.

I'm not sure what happens when a port-in number is canceled.  When it's ported in, a broadcast is sent to all providers via NPAC to announce that the number is now part of a different network; whether that number upon cancellation is released back to the original carrier or the new carrier, I don't know.

Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?

[kalvado]

there is no recall/reallocation procedure.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

....

Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?

Of course big blocks - or parts their of.

[jeffandnicole]

there is no recall/reallocation procedure.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

....

Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?

Of course big blocks - or parts their of.

I don't know the technical nature of that stuff, but if a company bought them, they are theirs to keep. If the company is bought out, the numbers are bought by the other company and they can use them.  I guess it's theoretically possible for a company to have never issued any numbers to customers and the business simply shuts down...in that case I don't know what arrangements exist for the FCC to take back those numbers and resell them.

[kalvado]

there is no recall/reallocation procedure.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

....

Do you mean to say there's no mechanism by which the FCC/NANPA recalls and reallocates whole blocks of phone numbers? or individual phone numbers?

Of course big blocks - or parts their of.

I don't know the technical nature of that stuff, but if a company bought them, they are theirs to keep. If the company is bought out, the numbers are bought by the other company and they can use them.  I guess it's theoretically possible for a company to have never issued any numbers to customers and the business simply shuts down...in that case I don't know what arrangements exist for the FCC to take back those numbers and resell them.

And a good question is if numbers are sold, leased or just assigned for use. Even better question - how that worked the day it was introduced 70 years ago, if those records still actually exist and are complete enough to actually trace things. I suspect many things could happen since then. TO make things worse,
I suspect those days nobody actually believed we would run out of numbers - and allocation was planned accordingly...

[Pink Jazz]

I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.

That time would be now.  Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.

10 digit dialing is the norm for most people. I live in Jacksonville FL we are the largest city in the US with 7 digit dialing from what i understand. 904 area code. But my cell phone provider requires 10 digit dialing.

The CMSA also includes 352, 386 and 912 also

When people move most people dont change numbers anymore. No one is phased by a non local number

LGMS428

According to the NANPA website 7-digit dialing is still possible for the three Phoenix area codes (602, 480, 623) for calls within the same area code, although it lists 10-digit dialing as permissive.  Local calls between any two of the three area codes though require 10-digit dialing.

From what I read somewhere, both 602 and 480 are expected to run out of numbers by the early 2020s, so an overlay is inevitable.  Now how the overlay will be implemented remains interesting.  Will there be two separate overlay codes, or one single overlay code for both areas?  A third possibility would be a boundary extension overlay of 623, erasing 623's boundaries with 602 and 480 and making it an overlay for both.  623 has a lot of spare capacity.

[jwolfer]

I wonder how long it will be until 916 will be the mark of how long you lived in Sacramento.

That time would be now.  Its highly unlikely they'll ever split area codes again, and people moving into the San Fran area will most likely just being their current phone and area code with them.

10 digit dialing is the norm for most people. I live in Jacksonville FL we are the largest city in the US with 7 digit dialing from what i understand. 904 area code. But my cell phone provider requires 10 digit dialing.

The CMSA also includes 352, 386 and 912 also

When people move most people dont change numbers anymore. No one is phased by a non local number

LGMS428

According to the NANPA website 7-digit dialing is still possible for the three Phoenix area codes (602, 480, 623) for calls within the same area code, although it lists 10-digit dialing as permissive.  Local calls between any two of the three area codes though require 10-digit dialing.

From what I read somewhere, both 602 and 480 are expected to run out of numbers by the early 2020s, so an overlay is inevitable.  Now how the overlay will be implemented remains interesting.  Will there be two separate overlay codes, or one single overlay code for both areas?  A third possibility would be a boundary extension overlay of 623, erasing 623's boundaries with 602 and 480 and making it an overlay for both.  623 has a lot of spare capacity.

Sort of like 321 in Orlando.  Its the overlay for 407 near Orlando. But Brevard County is only 321

LGMS428

[mrsman]

The overlay thing is another thing that is Chinese to me. In this part of the world we use different prefixes (What you call "area codes") for landlines and cellphones. And the latter aren't tied to a particular geographical area, avoiding the ridiculous thing that if I take a cellphone with a 207 area code number to San Diego, any calls from that phone to a 619 area code number will be local, but the other way round is a non-existent round-trip to Maine (with its long distance tolls)!

You're a young'in! 

The local/long distance thing is really from a different era in the US.  First off, what I speak of below could vary across the country...but this is generally how it worked.  (And I'm just going to skip over party lines and the days when operators connected your phone call, because I wasn't around for that period of time!)

We have to go back to the era of baby-bells in many areas of the country.  For me, I was in the Bell Atlantic area.  Phone numbers were XXX-YYY-ZZZZ.  Phone companies used to provide free calling in a small geographical area, based on exchanges, which was the YYY.  Exchanges were randomly assigned...you just had to know which other YYY exchanges were in your local area.  You didn't have to dial the XXX area code.   You could call YYY exchanges outside your local area, but they were considered local-long distance calls, in which you still only needed 7 digit dialing without the area code, but you would be charged a per-minute rate for those phone calls.  Calls outside your area code were long distance.  You had a separate company handling those long distance calls, such as AT&T.  Those you had to dial 1-XXX-YYY-ZZZZ.  And you received a separate bill for them.

In some areas, as 1995hoo mentioned, NoVA and DC had different area codes, but the phone companies considered that specific area as within the local network, so you didn't get charged for those phone calls.

Calling others in the 1970's was actually quite expensive.  There weren't too many long-distance phone calls made.

Also, area codes had to have a 0 or 1 in the middle because rotary phones.  Cities and other populated areas had a 1, because on rotary phones it didn't take as long to dial a 1.  Or a 2.  Thus, cities like New York City's area code was 212.  Philly was 215.  The area with 909 (in California) had the longest dial on a rotary phone...although when they were assigned that number, most people had touch-tone button phones.

As fax machines came online (along with credit card terminals), it started eating up numbers.  Frequently, the phone company would split the area code, so that while some people had to change their number, others didn't.  Usually the original code was kept for the main cities within the area code; the further-out suburbs and rural areas got the new area code.   

Eventually, we started running out of area codes, because there's only so many X0X and X1X numbers out there.  So they were able to modernize by allowing nearly any number combination as XXX (some exceptions apply...there's never going to be a 000 or 911 area code, for example).   But phone numbers within area codes were given out in groups of exchanges.  As companies started applying for numbers, especially with the advent of cell phones, they would be given the 789 exchange within the 428 area code for example.  But the problem was that company may only have a few customers.  So there were a lot of numbers going unused.  That accelerated the use of 'taken' phone numbers...even though many weren't being actually used...which then required more area codes and more splits.  (That rule has since changed)

Eventually, the phone companies started allowing overlays.  The downside is that it required people within both area codes to enter all 10 digits...and this was when many people used home phones.  Sure, there was speed dialing options both on the phone and thru the phone company, but for most people, they had to dial all 10 digits.  As cell phones became more popular and more advanced, so did the saving of contacts within the phone.  10 digit dialing wasn't as bad as it used to be.

Eventually, phone companies started allowing the transfer of numbers...both among different companies (which became a huge war among the cell companies to get people to come to their company without the need to get a new phone number), but eventually allowed people to move across the country keeping their same phone number.

And, in a nutshell, that's how we got to where we are today.  In fact, phone calls today are down as much as 25% compared to the 80's and 90's because most people text...but that still requires a phone number. 

So, looping all the way back to your comment...if they had to start anew today, chances are the area code and exchanges wouldn't be as much of a factor in issuing phone numbers.  But, it's the way the system has always operated here, and they're pretty much stuck with it.

IMO, given the wide spread use of cell phones and the like, having an overlay is far better than having a geographical split.  People are getting more and more used to 10digit dialing and it's easier than changing biz card and the like.  In this area, I dial 10 digits for all local calls, even within the same area code.  Plus, that's the way that all cell phones work across the country.

[hotdogPi]

I live in area code 978, which supposedly has a 351 overlay. I have never seen a 351 area code, not even once.

[mrsman]

I live in area code 978, which supposedly has a 351 overlay. I have never seen a 351 area code, not even once.

Overlays by their nature are supposed to happen slowly.  No existing number gets changed, only those seeking new numbers will get assigned the overlay.  If you live in an area that is running out of numbers, but is not really growing very quickly it will take some time before you see people with those numbers.  As far as you know, they could be assigned in a different part of the state

[Road Hog]

I live in an area with so many codes that it's not a big deal. 214, 430, 469, 682, 817. 903, 940, and 972 all converge in this area, plus 580 across the river in Oklahoma. Not long ago there was only 214 for Dallas and points east, and 817 for Fort Worth and points west.

I suppose in my lifetime they'll run out of area codes and add an 11th digit.

[Big John]

I suppose in my lifetime they'll run out of area codes and add an 11th digit.

The middle digit of an area code is never 9 as that is a placeholder for a future 4-digit area code and 9 would be added as the second digit to existing area codes.  That is 212 would become 2912 for example.  Then when the transition is over, other area codes would appear.

[vdeane]

Maybe we'll all have really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWc3WY3fuZU

[kphoger]

really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.

Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing.  I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.

011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number

That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long.  We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.

[jeffandnicole]

really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.

Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing.  I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.

011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number

That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long.  We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.

And often we don't have to dial the 1 either.  I don't think I have 1 programmed for any number in my cell phone.  Using my house phone, which I rarely do, I don't think I've hit the 1 either.

[kphoger]

really long numbers like 01189998819991197253.

Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing.  I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.

011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number

That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long.  We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.

And often we don't have to dial the 1 either.  I don't think I have 1 programmed for any number in my cell phone.  Using my house phone, which I rarely do, I don't think I've hit the 1 either.

A 1- should still be required for landline calls, but not for cell phones.  At least, that's the way it works around here.  Your landline phone company still needs to recognize the number you're dialing as out-of-area.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Not having watched the video, it looks to me like international dialing.  I already have a couple of phone numbers only 4 digits shorter than that one programmed into my phone.
01152144247536## (last two digits removed to preserve his privacy) is one of them.

011 = International dialing from the USA
52 = Country code for México
1 = Required for dialing a Mexican cell phone
442 = Area code for parts of Querétaro and Guanajuato
475 = Local series for the city of Querétaro
36## = Local number

That same number as dialed long-distance within México requires dialing 14 digits, even though the number itself is only 10 digits long.  We're rather fortunate here in the US, that we hardly ever have to dial any extra digits than just a single 1- when placing a call.

If I was to dial that same number from here, I'd have to dial one digit less - the international dialing code from Spain is 00 instead of 011.

[Pink Jazz]

Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029.  623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.

I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially.  However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.

[mgk920]

Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029.  623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.

I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially.  However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.

Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.

Mike

[Pink Jazz]

Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029.  623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.

I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially.  However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.

Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.

Mike

That could work as well, although most new number assignments would probably be 623 numbers anyway since it has far more spare capacity than 480 or 602.

[mrsman]

Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029.  623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.

I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially.  However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.

Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.

Mike

That could work as well, although most new number assignments would probably be 623 numbers anyway since it has far more spare capacity than 480 or 602.

I like that idea as well.  At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.  If all existing area codes within a metropolitan area can become interchangeable we can more efficiently assign phone exchanges and prolong the time when we run out of area codes altogether.,

[Pink Jazz]

Of Arizona's area codes, 480 (Phoenix East Valley) is expected to reach exhaustion in 4Q 2020, 602 (most of Phoenix proper and northeastern Glendale) in 1Q 2022, and 520 (Southern Arizona) in 4Q 2029.  623 (Phoenix West Valley) and 928 (most of rural Arizona) currently do not have expected exhaustion dates, since they have a lot of spare capacity.

I expect both 480 and 602 will be overlaid, although the overlay may only cover the 480 area initially.  However, we can't rule out the boundary extension idea of 623, since it has a lot of spare capacity.

Or just erase the geographic lines between the codes in the Phoenix metro area.

Mike

That could work as well, although most new number assignments would probably be 623 numbers anyway since it has far more spare capacity than 480 or 602.

I like that idea as well.  At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.  If all existing area codes within a metropolitan area can become interchangeable we can more efficiently assign phone exchanges and prolong the time when we run out of area codes altogether.,

True, since I have seen many people who live in the East Valley who have 602 cell phone numbers.

I really wonder why 623 is underutilized though.  Is it considered less desirable?  I know in the past that 480 was considered desirable due to it being Scottsdale's area code, and the 480 area is one of the highest income areas in the nation.  While 623 does include some undesirable areas such as parts of Maryvale and south Glendale, there are some desirable areas in 623 as well such as Peoria, Surprise, Goodyear, and Litchfield Park as well.

[kphoger]

At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.

Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.

[kalvado]

At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.

Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.

And there are more and more landlines working over IP protocol, where physical location of the phone is only that important.
I suspect dedicated phone lines would become too expensive to support in foreseeable future - maintaining highr capacity fiber costs a bit more for much more capabilities.
I suspect area codes would go same way as central office exchange codes (official name for 3 digits in the middle, xxx-XXX-xxxx), and would just become 3 digits of a long number.

[jeffandnicole]

At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.

Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.

And there are more and more landlines working over IP protocol, where physical location of the phone is only that important.
I suspect dedicated phone lines would become too expensive to support in foreseeable future - maintaining highr capacity fiber costs a bit more for much more capabilities.
I suspect area codes would go same way as central office exchange codes (official name for 3 digits in the middle, xxx-XXX-xxxx), and would just become 3 digits of a long number.

In areas of NJ that were hit hard by Hurricane Sandy & other storms, Verizon has been very reluctant to replace wiring for landlines in extremely low-populated areas.  This, of course, infuriates the older population that don't see a need for cell phones, who then call their local officials, who then yell at Verizon.  We are talking about a very small minority.  Verizon certainly doesn't want to replace expensive lines for very few people. 

I haven't followed the situation very closely, but I don't think Verizon has to provide such lines.  In reality they just need to appease these few people that are complaining, even if it's giving them a free phone.  Of course, these oldtimers don't like change so I'm sure they won't be very accepting of such an offer.

[kalvado]

At this point, with the proliferation of cell phones, the area codes no longer really denote an area.

Except that, for every single land-line number, the area code very much still does denote an area.

And there are more and more landlines working over IP protocol, where physical location of the phone is only that important.
I suspect dedicated phone lines would become too expensive to support in foreseeable future - maintaining highr capacity fiber costs a bit more for much more capabilities.
I suspect area codes would go same way as central office exchange codes (official name for 3 digits in the middle, xxx-XXX-xxxx), and would just become 3 digits of a long number.

In areas of NJ that were hit hard by Hurricane Sandy & other storms, Verizon has been very reluctant to replace wiring for landlines in extremely low-populated areas.  This, of course, infuriates the older population that don't see a need for cell phones, who then call their local officials, who then yell at Verizon.  We are talking about a very small minority.  Verizon certainly doesn't want to replace expensive lines for very few people. 

I haven't followed the situation very closely, but I don't think Verizon has to provide such lines.  In reality they just need to appease these few people that are complaining, even if it's giving them a free phone.  Of course, these oldtimers don't like change so I'm sure they won't be very accepting of such an offer.

Well, it is only that difficult to have a cell phone repacked into an old style body - even with rotary dial, if anyone would love to use that. Running antenna outside is also an option for those scared of "radiation".  Signal availability in remote areas is another question - although I can see Verizon being more willing to install single tower as opposed to 20 landline cables.  Big advantage of landlines is that they do exist... until they fail.