I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin

Started by Revive 755, June 18, 2011, 11:55:07 PM

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sandwalk

A little off topic, but I thought it was interesting that the control cities for I-90 (while traveling west on I-43) are Chicago and Madison.  There's a secondary sign that mentions Bloomington/Normal (for the I-90 east exit).....but there's no mention of I-39 and Rockford (the obvious nearest metro area)..... I wonder why that is????


amroad17

Quote from: sandwalk on October 13, 2012, 02:42:52 AM
A little off topic, but I thought it was interesting that the control cities for I-90 (while traveling west on I-43) are Chicago and Madison.  There's a secondary sign that mentions Bloomington/Normal (for the I-90 east exit).....but there's no mention of I-39 and Rockford (the obvious nearest metro area)..... I wonder why that is????
WSDOT simply has not updated the BGS's for that interchange even though I-39 has been designated through there for at least 10 years.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Revive 755

Quote from: WarrenWallace on October 01, 2012, 07:49:46 AM
And here is the information from the north section meeting.

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/swregion/i3990/north/public.htm

My comments/questions:

* At the US 51/WI 73 interchange, are the loops really that tight?  Otherwise I'd say it would be better to stick with the folded diamond since it appears to have better spacing between the ramps (which given the nearby residential development, will probably require traffic signals someday) and leaves open the option of going for a partial cloverleaf in the future.

* Maybe I'd just expect it because MoDOT would do it, but I'm somewhat surprised that WisDOT is keeping all of the ROW at the ghost interchange for the once proposed US 12 freeway into Chicagoland south of County B.  WisDOT is selling the land for the former rest area/welcome center on the US 12 freeway just north of the Illinois border after all.  Or am I wrong in assuming that should the US 12 freeway/expressway be completed to Madison it will now use the US 12/US 18 corridor?

mgk920

Quote from: Revive 755 on October 13, 2012, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: WarrenWallace on October 01, 2012, 07:49:46 AM
And here is the information from the north section meeting.

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/swregion/i3990/north/public.htm

My comments/questions:

* At the US 51/WI 73 interchange, are the loops really that tight?  Otherwise I'd say it would be better to stick with the folded diamond since it appears to have better spacing between the ramps (which given the nearby residential development, will probably require traffic signals someday) and leaves open the option of going for a partial cloverleaf in the future.

* Maybe I'd just expect it because MoDOT would do it, but I'm somewhat surprised that WisDOT is keeping all of the ROW at the ghost interchange for the once proposed US 12 freeway into Chicagoland south of County B.  WisDOT is selling the land for the former rest area/welcome center on the US 12 freeway just north of the Illinois border after all.  Or am I wrong in assuming that should the US 12 freeway/expressway be completed to Madison it will now use the US 12/US 18 corridor?

Distancewise, new construction would be about the same (via Cambridge v. via the ghost interchange).  As it stands now and with the way Central Dane County continues growing, I would upgrade the current US 12/18 with a north bypass of Cambridge, with the US 12 new-ROW to then continue southeastward towards Fort Atkinson to connect with WI 26 at its first curve south of existing US 12 interchange with a trumpet interchange favoring US 12.

To connect a US 12 freeway to I-39/90 at the ghost interchange today world dump a lot of additional commuter traffic onto the already traffic-clogged interstate from there to the Beltline Interchange while existing US 12/18 eastward from the Beltline interchange is an upgradable four lanes to County 'N' and a well-engineered, partially upgradable two lanes from there to just northwest of Cambridge (WI 134 area).

Also, upgrade/re-engineer the Beltline Interchange to reflect the ongoing changes in traffic patterns due to metro growth, especially adding a SB I-39/90 to EB US 12/18 flyover ramp.

Mike

Jim920

Quote from: amroad17 on October 13, 2012, 03:42:56 AM
Quote from: sandwalk on October 13, 2012, 02:42:52 AM
A little off topic, but I thought it was interesting that the control cities for I-90 (while traveling west on I-43) are Chicago and Madison.  There's a secondary sign that mentions Bloomington/Normal (for the I-90 east exit).....but there's no mention of I-39 and Rockford (the obvious nearest metro area)..... I wonder why that is????
WSDOT simply has not updated the BGS's for that interchange even though I-39 has been designated through there for at least 10 years.

A lot of the signs around this interchange just don't seem to mesh at all.. (I do realize all BGS pre-date I-39)

Here's how WisDOT added I-39 to the I-43/39/90 interchange from SB I-43.
http://goo.gl/maps/EbeLI
I think this is the only time I've seen Junction signs posted on an Interstate.

This is how I-39 South is signed through the interchange, there is no sign like this for NB I-39/WB I-90.
http://goo.gl/maps/zPYll
I-39 North from I-43 North is signed in similar fashion.

This is how they've signed SB I-39, also with Bloomington/Normal.
http://goo.gl/maps/FuJLy

I've always been amused with this one..
http://goo.gl/maps/NtRXo
The "Milwaukee Ahead" appears to have been added after the rest of the gantry, and the tacked on I-43 shield was indeed an afterthought many years after I-43 was already signed.

And one last oddity with this interchange.. all the ramps have overhead signage except the SB/EB I-39/90 to NB I-43
http://goo.gl/maps/se05i

mgk920

I would safely assume that this will be addressed as the now-under way six-lane upgrade project progresses.

:nod:

Mike

mrose

Quote from: Jim920 on August 10, 2013, 11:42:04 PM
I've always been amused with this one..
http://goo.gl/maps/NtRXo
The "Milwaukee Ahead" appears to have been added after the rest of the gantry, and the tacked on I-43 shield was indeed an afterthought many years after I-43 was already signed.

Wow.... can you say "lazy"?

Yes, this had to have been added a lot later, because I went through there frequently maybe 15-20 years ago, and I don't ever remember seeing that.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: mrose on August 12, 2013, 01:59:29 AM
Quote from: Jim920 on August 10, 2013, 11:42:04 PM
I've always been amused with this one..
http://goo.gl/maps/NtRXo
The "Milwaukee Ahead" appears to have been added after the rest of the gantry, and the tacked on I-43 shield was indeed an afterthought many years after I-43 was already signed.

Wow.... can you say "lazy"?

Yes, this had to have been added a lot later, because I went through there frequently maybe 15-20 years ago, and I don't ever remember seeing that.


I go through there a lot, and I think it's been there forever.  In fact I think it predates I-43.  I very well could be wrong however.

GeekJedi

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 12, 2013, 09:31:23 AM
Quote from: mrose on August 12, 2013, 01:59:29 AM
Quote from: Jim920 on August 10, 2013, 11:42:04 PM
I've always been amused with this one..
http://goo.gl/maps/NtRXo
The "Milwaukee Ahead" appears to have been added after the rest of the gantry, and the tacked on I-43 shield was indeed an afterthought many years after I-43 was already signed.

Wow.... can you say "lazy"?

Yes, this had to have been added a lot later, because I went through there frequently maybe 15-20 years ago, and I don't ever remember seeing that.


I go through there a lot, and I think it's been there forever.  In fact I think it predates I-43.  I very well could be wrong however.

I believe you're correct.  ISTR that is was there back in the WI-15 days in the early 80's.  The I-43 shield got tacked on after the switch.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

hobsini2

Quote from: GeekJedi on August 12, 2013, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 12, 2013, 09:31:23 AM
Quote from: mrose on August 12, 2013, 01:59:29 AM
Quote from: Jim920 on August 10, 2013, 11:42:04 PM
I've always been amused with this one..
http://goo.gl/maps/NtRXo
The "Milwaukee Ahead" appears to have been added after the rest of the gantry, and the tacked on I-43 shield was indeed an afterthought many years after I-43 was already signed.

Wow.... can you say "lazy"?

Yes, this had to have been added a lot later, because I went through there frequently maybe 15-20 years ago, and I don't ever remember seeing that.


I go through there a lot, and I think it's been there forever.  In fact I think it predates I-43.  I very well could be wrong however.

I believe you're correct.  ISTR that is was there back in the WI-15 days in the early 80's.  The I-43 shield got tacked on after the switch.

The "mock-up" of plaques on the southbound 43 gantry for Wis 81 is a joke too.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on August 12, 2013, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 12, 2013, 09:31:23 AM
Quote from: mrose on August 12, 2013, 01:59:29 AM
Quote from: Jim920 on August 10, 2013, 11:42:04 PM
I've always been amused with this one..
http://goo.gl/maps/NtRXo
The "Milwaukee Ahead" appears to have been added after the rest of the gantry, and the tacked on I-43 shield was indeed an afterthought many years after I-43 was already signed.

Wow.... can you say "lazy"?

Yes, this had to have been added a lot later, because I went through there frequently maybe 15-20 years ago, and I don't ever remember seeing that.


I go through there a lot, and I think it's been there forever.  In fact I think it predates I-43.  I very well could be wrong however.

I believe you're correct.  ISTR that is was there back in the WI-15 days in the early 80's.  The I-43 shield got tacked on after the switch.


And that would make the signing perfect sense when you think about it.  Back then WI-15 started in downtown Beloit, continued up the current WI-81 on the east side of town, and then up the current I-43.  There was never a need for a BGS with a WI-15 shield, because you were already on WI-15.

WarrenWallace

Updates from the Central Segment meeting have now been updated online.

http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-39-90-project

I hate sprawl!

JREwing78

I attended the PIM about the southern segment of the I-39/90 project on Thursday. They had information on most of the exits/overpasses they plan to use in the area, but did not discuss the I-39/90 - 43 - Hwy 81 interchange - they are reserving that one for a future PIM. Apparently this one is a tough nut to crack.

The one big piece of new information was a diverging-diamond interchange (DDI) proposed for the Hwy 11/Avalon Rd exit. WisDOT representatives indicated the DDI would handle turning truck traffic easier than the previously-proposed roundabouts. It certainly went over better with the audience than roundabouts; a considerable amount of complaining took place over how people just can't figure out those blasted roundabouts!

WarrenWallace

I hate sprawl!

SEWIGuy

Quote from: WarrenWallace on November 05, 2013, 10:42:05 AM
http://gazettextra.com/article/20131104/ARTICLES/131109915/1059

Officials again looking at possible interchange at I-39/90 and M.


"Helgesen said his plan eventually could bring between 3,000 and 4,000 jobs, with development of approximately 4 million to 5 million square feet of industrial space. The development could bring in $200 million to $250 million in additional tax base."

Those are some hefty projections.  To give some scope, the GM plant in Janesville is just about 4.8 million square feet and employed 1,700 when it closed.  The businesses located in Gateway Business Park in Beloit employ less than 800 people combined.

JREwing78


Henry

Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 05, 2013, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: WarrenWallace on November 05, 2013, 10:42:05 AM
http://gazettextra.com/article/20131104/ARTICLES/131109915/1059

Officials again looking at possible interchange at I-39/90 and M.


"Helgesen said his plan eventually could bring between 3,000 and 4,000 jobs, with development of approximately 4 million to 5 million square feet of industrial space. The development could bring in $200 million to $250 million in additional tax base."

Those are some hefty projections.  To give some scope, the GM plant in Janesville is just about 4.8 million square feet and employed 1,700 when it closed.  The businesses located in Gateway Business Park in Beloit employ less than 800 people combined.
Talk about blown chances! Those autobuilders sure could've used it back then.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

triplemultiplex

If Milton (town and/or village) wants a CTH M interchange that much, they should pay 100% of the cost.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

WarrenWallace

South Segment Meeting info now available --> Maps/exibits
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/i-39-90-project/#

This has to do with the I-39/90 and I-43 interchange.

I hate sprawl!

JREwing78

#69
I went to the PIM this evening concerning the I-39/90 - I-43 - Hwy 81 interchange in Beloit.

Long story short - flyovers are planned for the interstate-to-interstate movements, Hwy 81/Milwaukee Rd gets extended to the County X/Hart Rd exit off I-43, direct access to Hwy 81/Milwaukee Rd is maintained for I-39/90 traffic, and I-43 traffic has to exit at Hart Rd to continue into Beloit.

That last portion was easily the most contentious with business owners who are on or near Milwaukee Rd. Their contention is that travelers will opt to stop in South Beloit or elsewhere instead of Beloit, and that people will have trouble navigating the new arrangement. I don't think it's going to be the issue they're making it out to be, but it's certainly a downgrade from what they had before.

They're still indecisive about what the street intersections will look like. They're leaning toward a diverging diamond for the I-39/90 @ Hwy 81/Milwaukee Rd interchange. As usual, the audience heavily panned the roundabouts, but were OK with the diverging diamond.

mgk920

That 'extension' of WI 81/Milwaukee Rd actually restores the connection that was there before the highway to the northeast of I-39/90 began evolving into today's I-43.  Restoring that will tie that part of the the City of Beloit back together, making, IMHO, for much more orderly and cohesive city growth and development than had it not been restored.

A DDI at I-39/90/WI 81 (Milwaukee Rd)?  Interesting.

:nod:

Mike

triplemultiplex

Quote from: JREwing78 on August 05, 2014, 10:55:35 PM
As usual, the audience heavily panned the roundabouts

:banghead: :banghead:
Idiots!

I have found it a little odd that WisDOT wants that WB->NB movement to be a flyover.  Doesn't seem like as it has the traffic for it.  However, it does make it easier to separate local and system movements at this location.  If one was building from scratch in this area, I-43 would likely terminate in a trumpet interchange at 39/90.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

mgk920

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 06, 2014, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 05, 2014, 10:55:35 PM
As usual, the audience heavily panned the roundabouts

:banghead: :banghead:
Idiots!

I have found it a little odd that WisDOT wants that WB->NB movement to be a flyover.  Doesn't seem like as it has the traffic for it.  However, it does make it easier to separate local and system movements at this location.  If one was building from scratch in this area, I-43 would likely terminate in a trumpet interchange at 39/90.

The very original plans were for what is now I-43 to pass east-west between Beloit and Janesville, continuing on westward to feed into present-day WI 11/81 on the south edge of Brodhead.

Mike

JREwing78

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 06, 2014, 02:48:19 PM
I have found it a little odd that WisDOT wants that WB->NB movement to be a flyover.

That's poor explanation on my part. This is the plan they presented last night: http://projects.511wi.gov/documents/33947/d60c0561-53f2-446c-aed8-6abf38516c74

The WB-> NB movement doesn't fly over anything (since there's nothing to fly over). NB->EB crosses over the extended Milwaukee Rd. The NB exit to Milwaukee Rd splits off from the NB->EB movement. SB->EB and WB->SB obviously are flyovers.

triplemultiplex

Crap, I inverted the direction I was trying to talk about.  :-o

The point was, movement between the northern and eastern legs of the system interchange are fairly low volume.  Those ramps look to have a design speed of at least 55 mph and as such, they take up quite a bit of land.  They will be great to drive, but may be a tad overkill.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."



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