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Converting two lane roads into a four lane ones

Started by longhorn, September 19, 2013, 10:08:51 AM

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jlwm

Quote from: In_Correct on August 12, 2016, 11:23:42 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 12, 2016, 11:03:13 AM
Quote from: In_Correct on August 12, 2016, 10:56:36 AM
Quote from: wxfree on August 12, 2016, 05:14:04 AM
TxDOT has some projects on the books which, consistent with my earlier opinions, I believe will improve some of the highways under discussion.  Contracts scheduled to go out next year will convert narrow four-lane sections of highways into two-lane sections with shoulders and repeated passing lanes.  This includes US 183 from northwest of Austin to Lampasas and US 281 from Lampasas to Burnet.

As an update, the expansion of US 281 north and south of Hamilton is complete.  The last time I was out that way the work zone speed limit of 65 was still up and there was still work going, but that was months ago.  The project tracker says the projects are essentially complete.  Projects in the future will extend the super-2 work from Hico to Jacksboro, including contracts in Erath County scheduled for this month and further north over the next several years.

What do they mean by "Super 2"?

A road with two lanes total (one in each direction) that has interchanges instead of intersections (or sometimes some of each). They're not that common, because if it is worthwhile for a road to have interchanges, it is usually also worthwhile for it to have multiple lanes in each direction.

That's what I thought. I have yet to find a Super 2 in Texas. Or on a map. Can somebody give me an example of a Super 2 in Texas? I read on the Project Tracker that they are wanting to upgrade many various highways as "Super 2". They say "Upgrade To Super 2" or "Construct Super 2". such as S.H. 59 east of Bowie it says "Construct Super 2". Are they really going to add interchanges to it?  :confused:

Some of these Super 2s will eventually be expanded into larger facilities. The SH249 extension through the Bryan district will be a Super 2 with future expansion to a 4 lane highway. The Houston district's portion will have 4 lanes.
http://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/bryan/sh249.html

http://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/houston/sh249-extension.html


txstateends

Quote from: wtd67 on August 12, 2016, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 12, 2016, 01:50:57 PM
Quote from: In_Correct on August 12, 2016, 11:23:42 AM
I have yet to find a Super 2 in Texas. Or on a map. Can somebody give me an example of a Super 2 in Texas?

TX-255, formerly the Camino Colombia.  From I-35 almost to Mines Road.

The whole length of Loop/Toll 49 in Tyler.

In Amarillo, for now:
* Loop 335/Tascosa Rd-RM 1061
* Loop 335/Osage
* Loop 335/Washington-FM 1541
\/ \/ click for a bigger image \/ \/

kphoger

Oh, I forgot abut Amarillo's 335!  It's been more than 15 years since I last drove through Amarillo, though...
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Bobby5280

Parts of US-82 between Sherman and Paris have Super 2 designs, two-lane configurations with interchanges and room to add a second 2 lane roadway in the future.

capt.ron

US 59 has a 4 lane "poor boy" section from Teneha to Timpson (excluding the bridge spots where there are brief shoulders. Also that section has "Future I-69" signs along with a 75 (!!) mph posted speed limit on the rural section! Its a 4 lane poor boy, no shoulders, and actually feels quite "claustrophobic" (to me, anyway).

capt.ron

Arkansas did a "poor boy" conversion of the AR 89 bridge over the US 67 freeway in Cabot. It was once a 2 lane bridge, now a very narrow 4 lane bridge and you definitely feel "pinned in" when driving it. :O

longhorn

Its funny reading this talk of dangerous four lanes, yet "superior" two lanes highways. Look, take the "poor man four lane" 290 Manor to Elgin and convert it to a Super whatever two lane road and see what happens to traffic. The same can be said of 183 out of Austin.

Yes, I would rather have shoulders and turn lane, but if I could not, I take a "poor man" four lane road any day.

wxfree

Quote from: longhorn on August 24, 2016, 10:28:17 AM
Its funny reading this talk of dangerous four lanes, yet "superior" two lanes highways. Look, take the "poor man four lane" 290 Manor to Elgin and convert it to a Super whatever two lane road and see what happens to traffic. The same can be said of 183 out of Austin.

Yes, I would rather have shoulders and turn lane, but if I could not, I take a "poor man" four lane road any day.

I read somewhere that TxDOT's general policy is that the Super 2 design is suitable only for roads with traffic counts up to about 5,000.  This change clearly isn't something that should be done everywhere.  We seem to disagree over whether it should be done anywhere.  My experience with repeated passing lanes, with intervals of two to five miles, is favorable.  My experience with narrow 4s is not bad.  I've never had any actual trouble with them, but I'm glad not to have frequent occasion to use them.  I prefer a healthy margin of safety, but I don't think either option is an "any day" matter.  Each segment of road has to be judged for its own characteristics.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

longhorn


longhorn

Quote from: wxfree on August 24, 2016, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: longhorn on August 24, 2016, 10:28:17 AM
Its funny reading this talk of dangerous four lanes, yet "superior" two lanes highways. Look, take the "poor man four lane" 290 Manor to Elgin and convert it to a Super whatever two lane road and see what happens to traffic. The same can be said of 183 out of Austin.

Yes, I would rather have shoulders and turn lane, but if I could not, I take a "poor man" four lane road any day.

I read somewhere that TxDOT's general policy is that the Super 2 design is suitable only for roads with traffic counts up to about 5,000.  This change clearly isn't something that should be done everywhere.  We seem to disagree over whether it should be done anywhere.  My experience with repeated passing lanes, with intervals of two to five miles, is favorable.  My experience with narrow 4s is not bad.  I've never had any actual trouble with them, but I'm glad not to have frequent occasion to use them.  I prefer a healthy margin of safety, but I don't think either option is an "any day" matter.  Each segment of road has to be judged for its own characteristics.


Thank you, that's a relief to know.

longhorn

Quote from: wxfree on August 24, 2016, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: longhorn on August 24, 2016, 10:28:17 AM
Its funny reading this talk of dangerous four lanes, yet "superior" two lanes highways. Look, take the "poor man four lane" 290 Manor to Elgin and convert it to a Super whatever two lane road and see what happens to traffic. The same can be said of 183 out of Austin.

Yes, I would rather have shoulders and turn lane, but if I could not, I take a "poor man" four lane road any day.

I read somewhere that TxDOT's general policy is that the Super 2 design is suitable only for roads with traffic counts up to about 5,000.  This change clearly isn't something that should be done everywhere.  We seem to disagree over whether it should be done anywhere.  My experience with repeated passing lanes, with intervals of two to five miles, is favorable.  My experience with narrow 4s is not bad.  I've never had any actual trouble with them, but I'm glad not to have frequent occasion to use them.  I prefer a healthy margin of safety, but I don't think either option is an "any day" matter.  Each segment of road has to be judged for its own characteristics.

Well, you are right, north of Briggs to Lampasas, TXDot have turned a four lane 183 to two lanes with a middle turn lane. With traffic climbing in that corridor still a bad idea.



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