Questions about signs on overpasses

[roadman65]

Growing up in New Jersey I have seen my share of ads on Railroad Overpasses on local and state roads.  However, with the exception of the Garden State Parkway in Bloomfield,  I have not seen a guide sign posted or attached to any railroad bridge.  Yet, advertising is allowed completely!  Of course you do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out why that is.  No road agency or state government can own a railroad bridge even if the state builds it for the road to cross, the railroad becomes owner of the bridge solely, so they naturally get a kickback from the fees collected from the ad owners.  Yet, where some places could use a sign such as the northern terminus of NJ 35 in Rahway, NJ where there is no place on the ground to install any due to the restricted area from the Amtrak Corridor bridge that has its retaining walls close to the street, the rule is still held in place with absolutely no signs attached.

Now in recent years, many road agencies are going for gantries next to overpasses because in the past signs have compromised structural integrity of such bridges, however in the case of NJ 35 at its northern terminus I know its not the case as it would have had signs erected years ago.  Right now there is no such signage for the upcoming NJ 27 junction except for a JCT NJ 27 shield at the South Branch Rahway River bridge about 2/10 of a mile back from the actual junction, and not even an actual directional signage for NJ 27 or an END assembly for NJ 35 either.  In addition the left turn for NJ 27 south onto Lincoln Highway is an awkward turn as there is another left turn street (Colonia Boulevard) at the same intersection which needs the overhead with the needed arrows to inform a motorist that NJ 27 southbound requires a 7:30 turn and Colonia Boulevard is a standard 9 o clock or 90 degree left. 

Is there any ruling that one knows of where railroads forbid guide signs to be actually places on their bridges?  Or is it actually the red tape between the road agencies to get to the railroad owners?  I find this interesting that you regurally do not see overhead signs on railroad bridges, but car dealers and local businesses are allowed almost everywhere in NJ.  Come to think of it, I have not seen any billboards outside of NJ either on RR overpasses either.

[NE2]

It happens.


from http://www.flickr.com/photos/metroblossom/1595620009/

(yeah, it's on the L, so there may be less crap to go through...)

[jeffandnicole]

Here's a well-painted Conrail overpass in Newark, DE.  But to your point, the BGSs are mounted on cables above the roadway, just feet in front of the overpass.  http://goo.gl/maps/BnOnK

[agentsteel53]

Miles City, MT

[mass_citizen]

Here's a well-painted Conrail overpass in Newark, DE.  But to your point, the BGSs are mounted on cables above the roadway, just feet in front of the overpass.  http://goo.gl/maps/BnOnK

that's the first time I've seen BGS's mounted on cables. wow. wonder how much those cables deflect in high winds.

[roadman]

Could you provide some locations where this is happening?  I've never seen advertising panels being attached to railroad overpasses anywhere in my travels - although I haven't been through New Jersey (excepting the Turnpike and GSP) in years.

Do the panels extend above the height of the overpass beams?  The principal reason that Interstate-type BGS panels are generally no longer attached to highway overpass structures is that the height of the panel, which normally extends a considerable amount above the bridge structure, eventually creates a torsional effect due to the extra loading from the wind buffeting the "sail" the BGS creates.

If the height of the ad panel does not exceed the height of the bridge beam, which is much easier to accomplish with the typical tall plate girder spans railroads use, then this would not be an issue.

Of course, it's truly sad that we allow private companies to so easily give the marketing types yet another excuse to use the public streets and highways to ram their messages down the public's throats.  But that's a different topic for another time.

[NE2]

Found another one (though, as with Chicago, I think the local transit agency owns the bridge):

from http://losangelesrevisited.blogspot.com/2010/07/railroad-history-in-montebello-and.html

As for advertising:

from http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-278_njny.html

But going the other direction, look what we have here:

To the best of my knowledge, this is a privately owned bridge.

[Mapmikey]

How about this one on I-295 near Richmond, VA...full BGS and looks to be attached directly to the bridge...

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Richmond,+VA&hl=en&ll=37.635951,-77.398124&spn=0.021784,0.038581&sll=38.699042,-77.222342&sspn=0.021603,0.038581&oq=richmo,+VA&t=h&hnear=Richmond,+Virginia&z=15&layer=c&cbll=37.635962,-77.39822&panoid=ttYd-C6n__9zS0sCwNhYzw&cbp=12,131.62,,0,11.73

Mapmikey

[theline]

Main Street in downtown South Bend, IN. Smaller signs posted directly on overpass:


Near north side. This one is cheating, because the rail line is abandoned and the overpass reverted to public ownership.

The sign is being redone now, since the College Football Hall of Fame has vacated.

Both photos from GSV.

[mass_citizen]

Whats with the street name being painted longitudinally within the lanes in those 2 photos? Or is that just GSV labeling?

[Alps]

(New York, US 6/209 EB/NB, Port Jervis)
(New Jersey, US 1/9 NB, Newark)
(New Jersey, US 1/9 (R) and 1/9 Truck (L) NB, Jersey City)

[Ian]

I-787 just south of the NY 7 interchange. Here's northbound...


And southbound...

[Duke87]

Here's the opposite - a billboard on a publicly owned (ConnDOT) overpass:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=41.049538,-73.535721&spn=0.002233,0.003862&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.049538,-73.535721&panoid=gZ8w9gjHbKz9rMbZK5JSFw&cbp=12,143.74,,1,-11.16

[jeffandnicole]

Could you provide some locations where this is happening?  I've never seen advertising panels being attached to railroad overpasses anywhere in my travels - although I haven't been through New Jersey (excepting the Turnpike and GSP) in years.

In most cases, the advertising is simply paint on the overpass bridge.  And when you think about it, there aren't many forms of advertising that use this old-time method either!  Most billboards are wrapped or electronic; most signs are created using a computer-generated image.

For examples in NJ:

http://goo.gl/maps/ej8Da (US 130, Brooklawn, East of the Overpass)

http://goo.gl/maps/Fq8gp (US 130, Brooklawn, West of the Overpass (an older paint job))

http://goo.gl/maps/euJT8 (same location as above, but newer advertising, proving they really do still do this stuff!)

http://goo.gl/maps/4PiYR (US 130, Pennsauken, South side of overpass)

http://goo.gl/maps/52gMV (Same overpass, North side)

[theline]

Yeah, just GSV labeling. I upgraded to the newer version of Google Maps and haven't figured out how to turn off the labels. Some day I'll get motivated.

[Henry]

Here's a well-painted Conrail overpass in Newark, DE.  But to your point, the BGSs are mounted on cables above the roadway, just feet in front of the overpass.  http://goo.gl/maps/BnOnK

that's the first time I've seen BGS's mounted on cables. wow. wonder how much those cables deflect in high winds.

I'd imagine these signs would have a chance of blowing off the cables, since they're larger than conventional signs that would normally hang from them.

[mass_citizen]

Here's a well-painted Conrail overpass in Newark, DE.  But to your point, the BGSs are mounted on cables above the roadway, just feet in front of the overpass.  http://goo.gl/maps/BnOnK

that's the first time I've seen BGS's mounted on cables. wow. wonder how much those cables deflect in high winds.

I'd imagine these signs would have a chance of blowing off the cables, since they're larger than conventional signs that would normally hang from them.

If you look at the back of the signs from street view, you can see the rust trailing down the sign at each connection.

[lepidopteran]

In the Philadelphia area:

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-75.12279!3d40.159119!2m2!1f342!2f79.71!4f75!2m7!1e1!2m2!1sZ-U8GGDzUP3Cf9S3BDv4nA!2e0!5m2!1sZ-U8GGDzUP3Cf9S3BDv4nA!2e0&fid=5

[JMoses24]

I-471 south of the exit 4 gore point southbound and just past the merge northbound in Newport/Bellevue, KY, would count. Two BGS's on SB side, one NB.

[jeffandnicole]

Here's a well-painted Conrail overpass in Newark, DE.  But to your point, the BGSs are mounted on cables above the roadway, just feet in front of the overpass.  http://goo.gl/maps/BnOnK

that's the first time I've seen BGS's mounted on cables. wow. wonder how much those cables deflect in high winds.

I'd imagine these signs would have a chance of blowing off the cables, since they're larger than conventional signs that would normally hang from them.

Since these signs have been on cables since I remember (20 years ago, starting with my college days of 1993-97), I'd say the chances of them blowing off are nearly zero.

[mass_citizen]

Here's a well-painted Conrail overpass in Newark, DE.  But to your point, the BGSs are mounted on cables above the roadway, just feet in front of the overpass.  http://goo.gl/maps/BnOnK

that's the first time I've seen BGS's mounted on cables. wow. wonder how much those cables deflect in high winds.

I'd imagine these signs would have a chance of blowing off the cables, since they're larger than conventional signs that would normally hang from them.

Since these signs have been on cables since I remember (20 years ago, starting with my college days of 1993-97), I'd say the chances of them blowing off are nearly zero.

On the contrary, an old rusty bolt/connection is all it takes.

[CANALLER]

I can't speak for Jersey, but I have 2 active over head sign contracts in progress in Rochester right now.  Both have bridge-mounts on them.  We haven't had any issues with mounting signs on the railroad bridges, except that you have to have a railroad flagman on-site and stop work whenever a train is coming through.

[KEK Inc.]

Here's one in San Jose, CA:
http://goo.gl/maps/4AgsZ
http://goo.gl/maps/8IUiV

[Brandon]

Michigan Avenue, Detroit at the Edsel Ford Freeway (I-94):

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.324992,-83.166246&spn=0.004609,0.010568&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.324942,-83.16624&panoid=llxUV2M4cU3xkwCYIIAMig&cbp=12,38.75,,0,-11.88

[mass_citizen]

I like the underline of the cardinal direction for extra emphasis