I-73 & I-74 in S.C.

[NE2]

I-74 is not going to Myrtle Beach either

[bob7374]

NCDOT's list of potential 2018-2027 STIP projects seem to confirm your view. There are projects to upgrade portions of US 74-76 to interstate status (as well as US 74 between the Monroe Connector and Rockingham) while for US 17 between Wilmington and the SC Border the projects listed are for mainly closing off some cross streets and/or creating more Superstreet intersections. The list also makes no mention of any project that would build I-74 through Brunswick County from Whiteville to US 17, seemingly creating more incentive to end I-74 in Wilmington.

Just because NCDOT confirms my point of view doesn't mean they are also going reroute I-74 to Wilmington.  The route through the Green Swamp is likely going to be the last segment to be built of I-74 in North Carolina and I'm sure it ranks too low to bother trying to get funding the next few years.

A reminder, unless South Carolina gives up on I-74 or Congress changes everything, I-74 is NOT going to Wilmington.

Well, remember SC signed an agreement with NC more than 10 years ago that states SC will fund the building of their portion of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension to the NC border that can either be I-74 or a spur of I-74, depending on where NC decides to ultimately route it. I don't recall any federal objection to that agreement.

[WashuOtaku]

Well, remember SC signed an agreement with NC more than 10 years ago that states SC will fund the building of their portion of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension to the NC border that can either be I-74 or a spur of I-74, depending on where NC decides to ultimately route it. I don't recall any federal objection to that agreement.

Source?

[Strider]

Well, remember SC signed an agreement with NC more than 10 years ago that states SC will fund the building of their portion of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension to the NC border that can either be I-74 or a spur of I-74, depending on where NC decides to ultimately route it. I don't recall any federal objection to that agreement.

Source?

Yeah, he is right. SC and NC did have a agreement on where I-74 (and I-73) would cross the state. I believe the agreement is that if
SCDOT builds Carolina Bays Parkway Extension to connect with US 17 (or I-74) in NC, NCDOT will build the first 5 miles of I-73 from NC line to I-74/US 74. I cannot find the information in regarding to that. I tried NCDOT's page, it seems like it get taken down. If I can find a link or attachment, I will post it here.


Found the link. here it is: http://www.i73.com/pdf/CarolinasReach021205.pdf

[CanesFan27]

Well, remember SC signed an agreement with NC more than 10 years ago that states SC will fund the building of their portion of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension to the NC border that can either be I-74 or a spur of I-74, depending on where NC decides to ultimately route it. I don't recall any federal objection to that agreement.

Source?

Yeah, he is right. SC and NC did have a agreement on where I-74 (and I-73) would cross the state. I believe the agreement is that if
SCDOT builds Carolina Bays Parkway Extension to connect with US 17 (or I-74) in NC, NCDOT will build the first 5 miles of I-73 from NC line to I-74/US 74. I cannot find the information in regarding to that. I tried NCDOT's page, it seems like it get taken down. If I can find a link or attachment, I will post it here.


Found the link. here it is: http://www.i73.com/pdf/CarolinasReach021205.pdf

The dispute isn't the agreement it is whether it is 74 or x74. I recall the agreement - I even blogged about it.  Conversely on our blog, Bob has been consistent in saying 74 should go to Wilmington ; whereas, I have taken the approach of unless it changes its's I-74 and since there's no formal push by NC to move 74 to Wilmington - I don't see the reason to speculate.

That's me personally. And the fun part of the blog.

[Strider]

Well, remember SC signed an agreement with NC more than 10 years ago that states SC will fund the building of their portion of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension to the NC border that can either be I-74 or a spur of I-74, depending on where NC decides to ultimately route it. I don't recall any federal objection to that agreement.

Source?

Yeah, he is right. SC and NC did have a agreement on where I-74 (and I-73) would cross the state. I believe the agreement is that if
SCDOT builds Carolina Bays Parkway Extension to connect with US 17 (or I-74) in NC, NCDOT will build the first 5 miles of I-73 from NC line to I-74/US 74. I cannot find the information in regarding to that. I tried NCDOT's page, it seems like it get taken down. If I can find a link or attachment, I will post it here.


Found the link. here it is: http://www.i73.com/pdf/CarolinasReach021205.pdf

The dispute isn't the agreement it is whether it is 74 or x74. I recall the agreement - I even blogged about it.  Conversely on our blog, Bob has been consistent in saying 74 should go to Wilmington ; whereas, I have taken the approach of unless it changes its's I-74 and since there's no formal push by NC to move 74 to Wilmington - I don't see the reason to speculate.

That's me personally. And the fun part of the blog.

No, the agreement about whether it is 74 or x74 did not come in play during the meetings, not what I know of. Bob probably have his reasons and evidences and know of something that I don't. You can only take that up with him. There were only specifications that which interstate number it would be.

For me, I'd prefer I-74 end at I-73 back in Randleman.

[bob7374]

Well, remember SC signed an agreement with NC more than 10 years ago that states SC will fund the building of their portion of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension to the NC border that can either be I-74 or a spur of I-74, depending on where NC decides to ultimately route it. I don't recall any federal objection to that agreement.

Source?

Yeah, he is right. SC and NC did have a agreement on where I-74 (and I-73) would cross the state. I believe the agreement is that if
SCDOT builds Carolina Bays Parkway Extension to connect with US 17 (or I-74) in NC, NCDOT will build the first 5 miles of I-73 from NC line to I-74/US 74. I cannot find the information in regarding to that. I tried NCDOT's page, it seems like it get taken down. If I can find a link or attachment, I will post it here.


Found the link. here it is: http://www.i73.com/pdf/CarolinasReach021205.pdf

The dispute isn't the agreement it is whether it is 74 or x74. I recall the agreement - I even blogged about it.  Conversely on our blog, Bob has been consistent in saying 74 should go to Wilmington ; whereas, I have taken the approach of unless it changes its's I-74 and since there's no formal push by NC to move 74 to Wilmington - I don't see the reason to speculate.

That's me personally. And the fun part of the blog.

I agree, this is all a fun, and hopefully harmless, conversation about a future route number. We'll find out down the road (sorry) what both SCDOT and NCDOT are up to and go from there.

[Grzrd]

... this is all a fun, and hopefully harmless, conversation about a future route number. We'll find out down the road (sorry) what both SCDOT and NCDOT are up to and go from there.

NCDOT now has a Project Page devoted to the Carolina Bays Parkway Extension and public involvement should start by the end of the year. Here is the logo for the project:



No hints as to I-74 or I-x74, unless a "multi-lane expressway" indicates a non-interstate grade facility.

[PColumbus73]

If the RIDE III bill passes in Horry County, funding could start coming in for the SC 31 extension to the State Line.

http://www.horrycounty.org/portals/0/Docs/council/Ride%20III/RIDE%203%20PI%20Brochure%20FInal%20Draft.pdf

The link is to a PDF for the RIDE III brochure. (SLOW PDF)

The RIDE bills in Horry County helped build A LOT of roads here, including SC 22, SC 31, and Fantasy Harbour Bridge.

[Grzrd]

If the RIDE III bill passes in Horry County, funding could start coming in for the SC 31 extension to the State Line.

This Nov. 8 article reports that RIDE III passed overwhelmingly and that it will fund the S.C. 31 extension to the North Carolina state line:

Horry County residents voted in favor of the RIDE III ballot referendum by a wide margin to raise some sales taxes by one percent in order to fund $600 million in road construction projects.
With all 131 precincts reporting by press time, 82,126 voted yes, while 36,669 voted no.
"The voters have spoken loud and clear – we want more roads and better roads," said Brad Dean, executive director of the Myrtle Beach Area Chamber of Commerce. "Let the construction begin."  ....
RIDE III also will provide funding for environmental studies to build the Southern Evacuation Lifeline and construction of S.C. 31 to the North Carolina state line.

[jwolfer]

The whole 73/74 thing is a mess.. Realisticlly it will never be complete outside NC.  As it is now its mostly multiplexed and in the grid 74 should be i28 or i3x.. Us74 from i26 to Wilmington i think should be i28...i20 should be extended to Myrtle Beach.

The Carolina Bays should be signed as us17 or stay SR31 and hell add some tolls. It be extented to at least Georgetown, ideally with a bypass of Georgetown. I read that an extention of 31 across ICW to us 701 was shot down for environmental reasons. So put all the traffic back onto congested U.S. 17 south of Myrtle Beach.. Not good for environment, economy, tourism or hurricane evacuations.

The way NC gets interstates; us17 is likely to be an interstate highway in 50 years. i think much more likely than i74 through WV and OH.. It would make sense for eastern NC and coastal SC tourism and give another alternate to i95.

LGMS428

[LM117]

I don't understand why SC is focused on the SC-31 extension. As far as I know, NC's section of the parkway did not even make it in NCDOT's draft 2018-2027 STIP.

Without NC's part, the extension will be useless and a big waste of money. SC needs to forget about I-74 and focus on I-73, which will be much more useful since the majority of tourist traffic comes from I-95 via US-501.

[jwolfer]

I don't understand why SC is focused on the SC-31 extension. As far as I know, NC's section of the parkway did not even make it in NCDOT's draft 2018-2027 STIP.

Without NC's part, the extension will be useless and a big waste of money. SC needs to forget about I-74 and focus on I-73, which will be much more useful since the majority of tourist traffic comes from I-95 via US-501.

They want a freeway bypass of Myrtle Beach and environs.. But on the South en2s it dumps you right back on 17 for ~15 miles of traffic light hell and 45 mph.

I drove from Myrtle Beach to Jacksonville FL.  On paper it look like 17 should be the best way. And most of it is not too bad. Other than the mess around Pawleys Island and Murrels Inlet and some of suburban Charleston (SC come on and allow 65 mph on 4 lane rural divided highways like GA and FL)

So if it ever come to fruition i73 should logically go down the coast thru Charleston area use 526 and repurpose us17 from there to Point  South(exit 33 on i95.

Don't have i73 just peter out in Horry County.  Charleston metro and the entire coast of SC are growing.. And Myrtle Beach is "the beach" for growing cities such as Charlotte, Columbia, and to some extent Atlanta. Make i73 actually useful

LGMS428

[wdcrft63]

I don't understand why SC is focused on the SC-31 extension. As far as I know, NC's section of the parkway did not even make it in NCDOT's draft 2018-2027 STIP.

Without NC's part, the extension will be useless and a big waste of money. SC needs to forget about I-74 and focus on I-73, which will be much more useful since the majority of tourist traffic comes from I-95 via US-501.

NCDOT has a project started to design its section of the Carolina Bays Parkway extension:
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/CBP/

NCDOT and SCDOT are communicating on this project, and if SC sets a definite timetable for design and construction, NC will probably cooperate so that the extension can be completed in both states at the same time. NC actually did a feasibility study that identified several possible routes back in 2006, but recent development has made several of these routes look pretty unlikely.

So the ball is in SCDOT's court on this.

[Grzrd]

This article

Trump said Myrtle Beach has a bright future but needs to improve access to the area, specifically by building I-73.

This TV video quotes South Carolina U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham as saying that, if Trump's infrastructure plan is at a minimum of $400 billion - $500 billion, he will vote against it unless it contains $1 billion for I-73:

U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham said he's prioritizing major projects for Horry County, such as beach renourishment and Interstate 73, while debating bills and voting on Capitol Hill.
He talked with business people and politicians at the Myrtle Beach Area Chamber of Commerce Tuesday morning ....
As far as I-73 is concerned, Graham said he knows how important it is to Horry County.
"Wouldn't it be great to have an interstate from 95 down here to the Grand Strand and everything in the middle would have an opportunity to grow their economy as well as for you to have people come here? This is so important for rural South Carolina to build this road,"  he said.
He hopes permitting for the project could be finished within the year.
"We are dealing with every group known to mankind in the conservation world to make this project hard. We're beginning to turn a corner,"  Graham said. "I've been on two conference calls where it was very easy to understand what Tom [Rice] and I had to say. The answer is yes when it comes to I-73."
However, the senator said the project needs $1 billion and the money isn't there right now. He proposes using repatriation to fund it, along with other projects in an infrastructure bill.
"The key to paying for it is to lower corporate taxes to get the money back into the country, dedicate the revenue to pay for the infrastructure bill,"  Graham said.
He said he hopes an infrastructure bill can pass that sets aside money for roads of national significance. I-73 is one of them.
"I will not vote for an infrastructure bill that doesn't take care of I-73,"  Graham said.

If the infrastructure bill comes to fruition, then I-73 has a real shot because Trump has expressed interest in it and Graham is behind it.

[sparker]

If the infrastructure bill comes to fruition, then I-73 has a real shot because Trump has expressed interest in it and Graham is behind it.

Considering the enmity between Graham and the Trump camp, if those two can concur on anything, then it's likely that some progress will be made on the I-73 project -- although with the Trump/Chao frame of mind, don't be surprised if the prospect of a tolled facility re-emerges. 

[LM117]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[WashuOtaku]

I'll believe it when I see it.

It will be the only way I-73 will get built in the state, since the South Carolina legislators bitch about a few pennies while their infrastructure collapses around them.

[Strider]

I-73 permit approved by U.S. Corp of Engineers. If money is collected, construction could begin as soon as possible.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/article157155109.html

http://www.wltx.com/news/local/permit-approved-for-i-73-construction-in-south-carolina/450635873

[LM117]

I-73 permit approved by U.S. Corp of Engineers. If money is collected, construction could begin as soon as possible.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/article157155109.html

http://www.wltx.com/news/local/permit-approved-for-i-73-construction-in-south-carolina/450635873

About time.

[Strider]

I-73 permit approved by U.S. Corp of Engineers. If money is collected, construction could begin as soon as possible.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/article157155109.html

http://www.wltx.com/news/local/permit-approved-for-i-73-construction-in-south-carolina/450635873

About time.

I agree with it. About time. Now let's get it built.

[Henry]

I-73 permit approved by U.S. Corp of Engineers. If money is collected, construction could begin as soon as possible.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/article157155109.html

http://www.wltx.com/news/local/permit-approved-for-i-73-construction-in-south-carolina/450635873

About time.

I agree with it. About time. Now let's get it built.

The sooner, the better.

[US 89]

Why can't they extend the plans for I-74 south to Georgetown or Charleston? It doesn't look like there's too much in the way, and the portion of US 17 in this area has some of the worst congestion I have ever seen.

Alternatively, maybe US-17 could be fully grade separated instead, with frontage roads for business access.

[sparker]

Why can't they extend the plans for I-74 south to Georgetown or Charleston? It doesn't look like there's too much in the way, and the portion of US 17 in this area has some of the worst congestion I have ever seen.

Alternatively, maybe US-17 could be fully grade separated instead, with frontage roads for business access.

Circa 1995, the HPC-5 corridor definition was pulled back from a terminus at Charleston to Georgetown; the impetus for this truncation was a cohort of the usual suspects: environmental activists, who opposed a new freeway down the strip between the wetlands and the shore, and property-owner NIMBY's who didn't want (a) to have their access to the main highway through the area limited, (b) would rather not cede part of their properties for construction, and (c) would rather not encourage additional traffic through their area.  A few years later a western connection from Georgetown to I-95 and on to Camden, SC was added to the corridor definition to give it an outlet (albeit a bit awkward) at its southern end (and as a sop to SC congressional types). 

These same NIMBYs are still around; with or without an Interstate designation, don't expect much in the way of US 17 improvements south of Georgetown, congestion or not.

[PColumbus73]

Why can't they extend the plans for I-74 south to Georgetown or Charleston? It doesn't look like there's too much in the way, and the portion of US 17 in this area has some of the worst congestion I have ever seen.

Alternatively, maybe US-17 could be fully grade separated instead, with frontage roads for business access.

As someone who lives in the Myrtle Beach area, I can tell you that traffic between Georgetown and Charleston is generally pretty light. Except for the speed drop in McClellanville, traffic stays at least 60 MPH.

I think once US 521 is widened completely between Andrews and Manning, it'll make a pretty good alternative to an actual interstate. Currently, traffic is pretty light on US 521, like US 17. It will be great when SCDOT completes the Andrews bypass.