2015 Denver Meet?

[bugo]

What's the difference between a "national meet" and a "non-national meet"?  The Saint Louis meet meets my definition of a "national meet" more than the NYC meet did.

[oscar]

What's the difference between a "national meet" and a "non-national meet"?  The Saint Louis meet meets my definition of a "national meet" more than the NYC meet did.

One similarity:  both drew attendees from three time zones (Mountain, Central, Eastern).  A Denver meet might outdo that, if the draw includes the Pacific time zone as well.

Some would consider only a two+ day meet to be "national", but we can argue about that requirement.  As St. Louis showed, even a one-day meet can have a very wide geographic draw.

Now if only ghYHZ were to attend one of our meets, from the Atlantic time zone.  (AFAIK, we don't have anyone from the Newfoundland, Alaska, or Hawaii/Aleutian time zones.)

[hbelkins]

What's the difference between a "national meet" and a "non-national meet"?  The Saint Louis meet meets my definition of a "national meet" more than the NYC meet did.

One similarity:  both drew attendees from three time zones (Mountain, Central, Eastern).  A Denver meet might outdo that, if the draw includes the Pacific time zone as well.

Some would consider only a two+ day meet to be "national", but we can argue about that requirement.  As St. Louis showed, even a one-day meet can have a very wide geographic draw.

I think it all depends on how it's advertised. There have been a number of multi-day meets, but to my knowledge only two have actually been billed as national meets: Jeff Kitsko's Pennsylvania meet in 2007 and Steve Alpert's NY/NJ meet a couple of weeks ago.

[oscar]

I think it all depends on how it's advertised. There have been a number of multi-day meets, but to my knowledge only two have actually been billed as national meets: Jeff Kitsko's Pennsylvania meet in 2007 and Steve Alpert's NY/NJ meet a couple of weeks ago.

At least also Chicago in 2008, which was a two-day meet, though I think its draw was from only the Central and Eastern time zones.

[bugo]

What's the difference between a "national meet" and a "non-national meet"?  The Saint Louis meet meets my definition of a "national meet" more than the NYC meet did.

One similarity:  both drew attendees from three time zones (Mountain, Central, Eastern).  A Denver meet might outdo that, if the draw includes the Pacific time zone as well.

Some would consider only a two+ day meet to be "national", but we can argue about that requirement.  As St. Louis showed, even a one-day meet can have a very wide geographic draw.

I think it all depends on how it's advertised. There have been a number of multi-day meets, but to my knowledge only two have actually been billed as national meets: Jeff Kitsko's Pennsylvania meet in 2007 and Steve Alpert's NY/NJ meet a couple of weeks ago.

But who gets to make that decision?  I consider St Louis to be a national meet if there ever was one.

[Alps]

Two defining features of a National Meet:
1) It's a 2-day meet, not a 1-day, with the idea to draw more people in from farther away to make a long weekend out of it.
2) There are non-roads activities planned, more than just your standard meet lunch and possible meet dinner.

There is nothing to stop someone from designating a National Meet, though I would encourage the above two qualities to be met, and to only have one a year. After Pittsburgh and Chicago, Indianapolis was supposed to be the third National Meet in 2009, but the simultaneous Oklahoma City meet ended up pirating from it. The concept then lay dormant for several years - I don't know that there has been any 2-day meet between Indy and NYC.
Next year, a candidate for National Meet could be the Upper Peninsula of MI, since it will be likely held over Labor Day weekend to feature the Mackinac Bridge Walk, and will quite possibly last both Saturday and Sunday.

[hbelkins]

Indy was only a day-and-a-half, and I didn't remember OKC going on the same day. I went to a multi-day OKC meet but the turnout was comparable to Indy.

Pittsburgh was pretty much a two-and-a-half day event. The all-day trip on Thursday east of town, then Friday's tour of the PennDOT building. Friday afternoon was an on-your-own deal (I drove out US 30 and got a chunk of WV 2 that I needed) and then we ate that night and had an impromptu trip up to the top of the mountain overlooking town. Saturday was the river cruise, and I know some people stayed for a Pirates game that night (I headed home since I don't do Major League Baseball anymore).

I gave a whole lot of thought to doing a two-and-a-half-day Kentucky meet a few years ago, to be centered in Lexington, but there really didn't seem to be a lot of interest in it. I didn't really have any evening events planned, other than thinking about leading a county-clinching trip for anyone who needed some not-readily-accessible counties in the area east/southeast of Lexington.

[corco]

One thing that separates St Louis is that it wasn't designed as a national meet- I don't think that was Kim's intent, it just kind of turned out to be one due to circumstances that had little to do with the meet itself- it was more that the meet happened to be in the right place at the right time. To me, a national meet is designed in advance to lure people in from all around everywhere.

As far as this one goes, I have two goals here:

1) Give folks from "back east" a reason to come to a roadmeet out west and check out some cool sights and road stuff in a new part of the country
2) Draw in some folks from the west to this thing, to establish the idea that we really can sustain roadmeets out west- basically establishing another beachhead of meet-goers west of the Plains states. If this meet is a success and we get some amount of regional draw, I'd like to follow it up with a meet in Salt Lake in 2016. If the demand is there, there's a number of other places that I'd be comfortable hosting a meet, and hopefully other folks from this region would have other cities in mind. I do think a key to the success of this first one though is to get some number of folks who already frequently go to roadmeets at this thing, so I will do whatever looks like will maximize draw.

With that in mind, Salt Lake is probably the Cadillac of roadmeet cities in the inland west, so if that city would draw as well or better for folks living east of US 83, it could be the place in 2015. Denver's main benefit over Salt Lake is that it's closer, but maybe folks don't mind that extra few hours of driving, especially since that last few hours is the best few hours. If the reaction is "screw Denver, I'll wait for Salt Lake," that's something to consider. That's something we can evaluate down the road though.

It's possible I'll label this a National Meet- we'll see. Really depends on interest as we get closer- if there's 10 people or something that are more or less definite on coming out from back east and they want two days of meet, then that's what will happen. If it's just a couple folks and then some regional people, then we'll probably stick with one day. I like the idea of doing a city day and a mountains day, and there's enough going on in Denver to have in-between entertainment. My plan is to head down to Denver probably Labor Day and I'll really have a better feel for things then.

[Zmapper]

As a Fort Collins resident, I'm interested in a meet nearby.

Generally speaking, there isn't really that much in the way of neat roadgeeky stuff in the Fort Collins area, especially that of any national interest. Denver and the I-70 mountain corridor has more interesting places to orient a roadgeek meet around. Additionally, a transit construction element may present itself in Denver as active construction is underway on no less than four new rail lines as part of the FasTracks program.

Corco, have you considered Colorado Springs? For a national meet the Royal Gorge tourist attraction/bridge and Pikes Peak/the Cog Railway up the mountain may be of interest.

[corco]

Corco, have you considered Colorado Springs? For a national meet the Royal Gorge tourist attraction/bridge and Pikes Peak/the Cog Railway up the mountain may be of interest.

I do think the Springs is in play. I don't want to go much further south than that, but I think it should definitely be an option.

What I'll probably do at some point by October or so is throw out 3-4 different rough itineraries and from there take input on possible improvements and see where the interest lies, and that will determine where/how long the meet is.

[vdeane]

Probable no for me now.  My next car is a lease.

[Dougtone]

I'm interested in penciling in a trip to Colorado next year, national road meet or no national road meet.  I want to explore more of the state, maybe catch a Rockies or Avalanche game (more than likely a Rockies game based on the time of year I'd go).

Of course, I would try to schedule a Colorado trip around a road meet if this happens.  Odds are, I'd fly out there from New York.

[A.J. Bertin]

The more I think of it (and after reading more posts), the more I am interested in attending this. I may be more interested in attending a Denver meet than I am a NW Arkansas meet, but we will see. A nice thing for me about attending a Denver meet is that I'd finally get to visit Kansas for the first time and clinch a whole lot of I-70 west of St. Louis. I have no preference as to whether it's a National Meet or not. If I decide to attend and it's a two-day meet, I'd have to look at the itinerary to see whether I'd want to attend just one day, the other day, or both.

As far as Denver vs. Salt Lake is concerned, I would be much more inclined to drive to a Denver meet than I would a Salt Lake meet. Salt Lake is awesome, but I just had the opportunity to spend a little bit of time in Salt Lake in 2012. I haven't been to Denver since 1998 and I wasn't driving so I had no way to explore roads on my own.

David - I am excited to hear that you're trying to pave the way for more road meets in the western U.S.  This is exciting!

[jpi]

I agree with AJ on the last sentence :-) Hopefully this could launch a new chapter in road meets west of the great plains. As time progresses and if I do not go to Albuquerque next July, maybe Steph and I both could consider this instead since we both love the metro Denver area.  Ialready Have I-70 clinched from my first trip west in 09 so I may opt for the US highways instead to drive there.

[Duke87]

Salt Lake is probably the Cadillac of roadmeet cities in the inland west, so if that city would draw as well or better for folks living east of US 83, it could be the place in 2015. Denver's main benefit over Salt Lake is that it's closer, but maybe folks don't mind that extra few hours of driving, especially since that last few hours is the best few hours. If the reaction is "screw Denver, I'll wait for Salt Lake," that's something to consider.

A lot of potential east coast attendees will likely fly out, so proximity to a major airport should be more of a consideration than how far west it is if you are looking to have a national draw. I don't want to do that since I see it as the roadgeek equivalent of using a cheat code to skip straight to the last level, but that's me.

As for closeness, well, I'd be driving up to the Pacific Northwest regardless, so east/west location isn't really a concern for me although north/south location certainly is (north good, south bad). Indeed, Salt Lake is directly along my vague theoretical itinerary, Denver would be a detour from it.

Assuming it is decided Denver '15, Salt Lake '16, I miiiiight say "screw Denver, I'll wait for Salt Lake" - although for aforementioned reasons swapping the two will not change the odds of me attending in the proposed timeframe. Ideal for me personally as of this writing is a meet out west in August or September of 2015, perfect if it's labor day weekend or the weekend after.

That said, I'm one person, don't plan around me. Especially since my schedule conflict is far from certain at this point. I likely won't know for sure until February or March whether I am actually flying to Europe in May or not.

[The High Plains Traveler]

In the last Denver meet, Kevin Flynn got our group on-site during construction of the I-25 T-REX project. Kevin works for RTD now and frequently reports about progress on the new light rail line to DIA. Though we're a roads group, I'd find that of interest.

Right now, I'm not aware of any interesting projects going on around Denver itself, and many of the comments are folks wanting to drive the Mt. Evans road or the Glenwood Springs section of I-70. These are great, but time-consuming. If I-70 is free-flowing, Glenwood Springs is 2-1/2 hours from Denver. That drive is well worth it if you have the time, though.

If Colorado Springs were a focus, instead of looking at modern infrastructure, you could drive the roads back into the mountains that run along old narrow gauge rail routes and are one lane wide in places. A drive up Gold Camp Road to Victor, then down Phantom Canyon would be a great trip with historic things to see. Royal Gorge Park is pretty expensive to enter ($20+), assuming the park is fully back in operation by then; most of the structures were destroyed in a fire last year, fortunately not the bridge itself.

[jpi]

Now Salt Lake in 2016 I would seriously consider that since Steph and I have never been to Salt Lake and we have been to the metro Denver\ front range region twice in the past 5 years. Especailly if it is in middle of July so I can tie it into my every couple year trip to Albuquerque. :-)

[bugo]

If Colorado Springs were a focus, instead of looking at modern infrastructure, you could drive the roads back into the mountains that run along old narrow gauge rail routes and are one lane wide in places. A drive up Gold Camp Road to Victor, then down Phantom Canyon would be a great trip with historic things to see. Royal Gorge Park is pretty expensive to enter ($20+), assuming the park is fully back in operation by then; most of the structures were destroyed in a fire last year, fortunately not the bridge itself.

I was thinking about that.  A trip to the top of Pikes Peak would be fun too.

[codyg1985]

I was one of the ones that expressed interest in attending a Denver meet, so I would be all over this one. If we did it so that the NW Arkansas meet is within a week of the Denver meet, then there's a chance I could make an entire week out of it and go to both meets. However, I could see many people objecting to that for various reasons.

I really want to go out west more, anyway. I also have several friends that live in Denver that I'd love to visit, so Denver is very much a high target on my list of meets to go to next year.

[Scott5114]

I'd be more likely to attend Denver than Salt Lake, simply because of the aforementioned people I could probably stay with in Colorado Springs, and Denver's proximity to me.

If we did take a trip up a Colorado mountain this would probably be the highest road meet in history (and given CO's state laws probably in more ways than one).

[jpi]

Steph and I made it to the top of Pike's Peak in July 09, VERY intense drive but well worth it! 

[oscar]

Steph and I made it to the top of Pike's Peak in July 09, VERY intense drive but well worth it! 

The Pike's Peak road is now completely paved.  I don't know whether that has cut down on the macho strutting of the souvenirs sold in its gift shops (one at the summit). 

Mount Evans also has a gift shop, with similar merchandise (such as "Got Oxygan?" shirts), but it's at the base of the mountain rather than the summit. 

With both roads, being able to shift down into first gear helps with the downhill stretch.  The first time I drove Pike's Peak in 1986, I drove a car with an automatic transmission that allowed you to downshift only to second gear.  I got pulled over at the safety check halfway down the mountain for overheated brakes, and had to wait for my brakes to cool down.  AFAIK, there's no official safety check on the Mt. Evans road, but you might have to wait a few minutes for a herd of mountain goats to clear the road, giving you a chance to cool your brakes. 

I haven't taken my Prius (CVT automatic transmission, only one "low gear" to force engine braking for downgrades) up either mountain, and would want to ride with someone else if we include one of the mountains on the tour.  The Prius has managed Colorado mountain passes OK, though with power loss after draining the hybrid battery part way up, so I had only the little gas motor taking me the rest of the way up. 

[hbelkins]

Similar to what Oscar mentioned about vehicles and the downgrades, I understand Mt. Washington in New Hampshire has some severe restrictions on which vehicles can drive the road there. My Saturn Vue qualifies because it can shift down to "1" but a lot of vehicles aren't allowed.

[The High Plains Traveler]

No restrictions on Pikes Peak Highway but the aforementioned brake check station will advise vehicles to let their brakes cool. Coincidentally there is a souvenir store at the place you are advised to wait.

[Milepost61]

One more note if Mt Evans and/or Pikes Peak is on the meet itinerary: Allow lots of time for them. Both are a minimum of 2 hours round trip from the base up and back down.

Also, IMHO Mt Evans is more worth the trip. The top is an actual mountaintop, not a flattened off tourist trap like Pikes. Mt Evans has better scenery, since you're surrounded by other mountains; Pikes is isolated by itself.