Survey question on NYS driving technique

[empirestate]

Since living in and around NYC, I've noticed a change in people's usual technique for turning left, and I'm wondering if it's due to a change in how drivers are taught, or if it's an Upstate-Downstate thing (or something else)?

I learned to drive in the early 90s in Upstate NY (or Western NY, if you prefer). The method I learned, and as I recall this was corroborated by the drivers' manual at the time, is that to turn left at a traffic signal, you enter the intersection to the point where you'd begin to steer to the left–roughly halfway across, or just short thereof. There you would stop as you wait for oncoming traffic to clear, and once it does you would complete your left turn. If there is no break in oncoming traffic, you simply clear the intersection at the end of the light cycle when oncoming traffic is held up by their light turning yellow to red. (Cross-traffic now getting the green light would know to expect any straggling left-turners to be clearing out as they proceed.)

What I see at least as often now is that drivers will wait at or very slightly in front of the stop line to turn left, the result of which is that only the lead car gets a chance to clear at the end of the light cycle (and sometimes even that car will choose not to do so).

So, has there been a change in how this is taught in NYS since I learned to drive, either in the drivers' manual or the drivers' ed curriculum? Or is it a regional difference? For those of you who learned to drive in this state, which way were you taught? And when and where in the state did you receive your training as a driver? Or, if you drive regularly in NYS but were taught somewhere else, what was the current teaching at the time and place you learned?

[kalvado]

Since living in and around NYC, I've noticed a change in people's usual technique for turning left, and I'm wondering if it's due to a change in how drivers are taught, or if it's an Upstate-Downstate thing (or something else)?

I learned to drive in the early 90s in Upstate NY (or Western NY, if you prefer). The method I learned, and as I recall this was corroborated by the drivers' manual at the time, is that to turn left at a traffic signal, you enter the intersection to the point where you'd begin to steer to the left–roughly halfway across, or just short thereof. There you would stop as you wait for oncoming traffic to clear, and once it does you would complete your left turn. If there is no break in oncoming traffic, you simply clear the intersection at the end of the light cycle when oncoming traffic is held up by their light turning yellow to red. (Cross-traffic now getting the green light would know to expect any straggling left-turners to be clearing out as they proceed.)

What I see at least as often now is that drivers will wait at or very slightly in front of the stop line to turn left, the result of which is that only the lead car gets a chance to clear at the end of the light cycle (and sometimes even that car will choose not to do so).

So, has there been a change in how this is taught in NYS since I learned to drive, either in the drivers' manual or the drivers' ed curriculum? Or is it a regional difference? For those of you who learned to drive in this state, which way were you taught? And when and where in the state did you receive your training as a driver? Or, if you drive regularly in NYS but were taught somewhere else, what was the current teaching at the time and place you learned?

Official requirement is still the same, I believe.
At least one of contributing factors is that yellow traps are becoming more common - your green ball goes red before oncoming traffic gets their red. MUTCD requires some additional signage in that situation, but Albany never got a copy. FYA is another option, but I don't expect FYA to come to upstate any time soon. So it is just safer to wait at stop line if you don't remember exact cycle.
People routinely accelerating to beat amber light also don't help.

[froggie]

I don't think this is limited to New York.  I learned much the same way you did, but in Minnesota.  But I've seen the latter practice in several states around the country in recent years.

I'm also not so sure on kalvado's claim that yellow traps are becoming more often.  That has NOT been my experience.

[machias]

Since living in and around NYC, I've noticed a change in people's usual technique for turning left, and I'm wondering if it's due to a change in how drivers are taught, or if it's an Upstate-Downstate thing (or something else)?

I learned to drive in the early 90s in Upstate NY (or Western NY, if you prefer). The method I learned, and as I recall this was corroborated by the drivers' manual at the time, is that to turn left at a traffic signal, you enter the intersection to the point where you'd begin to steer to the left–roughly halfway across, or just short thereof. There you would stop as you wait for oncoming traffic to clear, and once it does you would complete your left turn. If there is no break in oncoming traffic, you simply clear the intersection at the end of the light cycle when oncoming traffic is held up by their light turning yellow to red. (Cross-traffic now getting the green light would know to expect any straggling left-turners to be clearing out as they proceed.)

What I see at least as often now is that drivers will wait at or very slightly in front of the stop line to turn left, the result of which is that only the lead car gets a chance to clear at the end of the light cycle (and sometimes even that car will choose not to do so).

So, has there been a change in how this is taught in NYS since I learned to drive, either in the drivers' manual or the drivers' ed curriculum? Or is it a regional difference? For those of you who learned to drive in this state, which way were you taught? And when and where in the state did you receive your training as a driver? Or, if you drive regularly in NYS but were taught somewhere else, what was the current teaching at the time and place you learned?

I learned to drive in the early 80s in northern Oswego County and we were always taught to pull as far into the intersection as possible. The drivers' Ed teacher was also a village cop, so I can't imagine he'd be teaching us something that was illegal.  It makes me crazy when people don't pull into the intersection like that.  If they're changing the way they teach that it's not for the better, kind of like not teaching the advantages of right on red.

[jeffandnicole]

It could be people are more hesitant in pulling into the intersection if they are finding themselves waiting until the end of the cycle.

Or...if there's extensive use of flashing yellow arrows, I'm finding some people are hesitant in pulling into the intersection without one.  I've seen that in NJ with out-of-state drivers where they appear to refuse to turn left without a flashing yellow arrow...which aren't used in this state at all.  So they wait, and traffic builds up behind them, until the cycle changes and they get the advanced green arrow the next cycle.

I learned to drive in the early 80s in northern Oswego County and we were always taught to pull as far into the intersection as possible. The drivers' Ed teacher was also a village cop, so I can't imagine he'd be teaching us something that was illegal.

I don't think pulling into an intersection to a specific point within the intersection is a law, but rather general guidance.

[noelbotevera]

Yeah, it's certainly changed from the '90s. From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

To turn left - Make sure you have a clear gap to turn in front of oncoming traffic and traffic on the cross street is stopped.

Not sure if that's what you meant.

[empirestate]

Official requirement is still the same, I believe.
At least one of contributing factors is that yellow traps are becoming more common - your green ball goes red before oncoming traffic gets their red. MUTCD requires some additional signage in that situation, but Albany never got a copy. FYA is another option, but I don't expect FYA to come to upstate any time soon. So it is just safer to wait at stop line if you don't remember exact cycle.
People routinely accelerating to beat amber light also don't help.

So, which way did you learn, and which way do you actually do?

It could be people are more hesitant in pulling into the intersection if they are finding themselves waiting until the end of the cycle.

What might have changed over time to increase their hesitation about this?

Or...if there's extensive use of flashing yellow arrows, I'm finding some people are hesitant in pulling into the intersection without one.  I've seen that in NJ with out-of-state drivers where they appear to refuse to turn left without a flashing yellow arrow...which aren't used in this state at all.  So they wait, and traffic builds up behind them, until the cycle changes and they get the advanced green arrow the next cycle.

FYAs might influence a change in behavior, but for what it's worth, I've noticed this in areas where they are very new and have extremely limited deployment. So I'm sure there's something else at play, too.

Yeah, it's certainly changed from the '90s. From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

To turn left - Make sure you have a clear gap to turn in front of oncoming traffic and traffic on the cross street is stopped.

Not sure if that's what you meant.

Not exactly; I meant where do you stop while you're waiting for that gap? In the middle of the intersection, or back at the stop line?

And just curiously, what did PA's manual say in the 90s that's different from what you quoted? Surely it didn't say you don't have to wait for a gap!

[kalvado]

So, which way did you learn, and which way do you actually do?

I learned "pull to the center". Rarely do that anymore.

I don't think pulling into an intersection to a specific point within the intersection is a law, but rather general guidance.

Just looked at the latest NYS driver manual. "pull to the center" is no longer there, left turn instructions are basically a copy of paragraphs from the law.
Nice thing is that law is written for uncontrolled intersections without dedicated turn lanes. I could argue that the law makes use of left turn lanes illegal (I am not sure if judge would buy that, as always argument boils down to the legal definition of "to be")

I'm also not so sure on kalvado's claim that yellow traps are becoming more often.  That has NOT been my experience.

Personal experience can be different. I got in those traps 2 or 3 times... That was enough for me,  this is an uncomfortable experience.  There are 2 intersections within 5 minute ride from my place where people routinely get into those traps. I haven't seen any accidents yet, but once in a while it is a close call .

[vdeane]

I remember the driver's manual having the pull into the intersection language when I learned to drive nearly 10 years ago.  It's only for the first car though.

I've definitely noticed that many people don't do it.  I always assumed there were unaware that one could (and that it's legal to exit the intersection in the all-red phase if you're in the intersection and don't find a gap before then; I've actually been honked at for doing that before because people were unaware of the law).

I wonder if fear of red light cameras might contribute to it.  If one isn't sure that the camera will be aware of the fact that you were in the intersection before the light went red and doesn't want to risk a ticket they might stay back.  I know I tend to drive under the speed limit and be VERY cautious if I know I'm in red light camera territory (heck, I was once at this intersection and refused to pull past the stop line to attempt a right on red despite all the people honking at me to go because NJ had cameras at the time and I didn't want to risk it).

[SidS1045]

NYC has many intersections that are signed with something like "block the box, get a ticket" (if you're inside the intersection and unable to move when the light turns green for the cross street, you can be cited for blocking the intersection).

[vdeane]

Of course, unless things are backed up, blocking the box wouldn't apply to left turns because you'd be able to get out in the all-red phase.  Obviously, if things are backed up and might not move before the light changes, don't enter the intersection (of course, almost everyone does, just making things worse).

[jeffandnicole]

I know I tend to drive under the speed limit and be VERY cautious if I know I'm in red light camera territory (heck, I was once at this intersection and refused to pull past the stop line to attempt a right on red despite all the people honking at me to go because NJ had cameras at the time and I didn't want to risk it).

Yeah, you should've been fine!  The biggest problem came amount when people stopped and tickets were still mailed, with some municipal judges saying that you had to wait there 3 seconds...or 5 seconds...because that's what the town law or rule was.  In actuality, there is no such rule in any town, and any town wouldn't have the ability to make such a law.  It would be state law, and the state law states that you simply have to stop.

If anyone ever actually fought their ticket beyond the municipal level, there would've been a good chance the ticket would've been tossed...or a ruling made as to what constitutes a full stop.  But when most tickets were fairly minor with no points, it didn't make sense for people to continue fighting it.

Speaking of, it's been about 19 months since the 5 year red light camera trial ended in NJ.  Most people expected a report to be issued within a year, with those in favor hoping a ruling would be quick so they could start up the cameras again.  But...nearly 19 months later, and no report has been issued.  There's been absolutely no talk about when a report will even be issued.

[noelbotevera]

Yeah, it's certainly changed from the '90s. From the Pennsylvania Driver's Manual:

To turn left - Make sure you have a clear gap to turn in front of oncoming traffic and traffic on the cross street is stopped.

Not sure if that's what you meant.

Not exactly; I meant where do you stop while you're waiting for that gap? In the middle of the intersection, or back at the stop line?

And just curiously, what did PA's manual say in the 90s that's different from what you quoted? Surely it didn't say you don't have to wait for a gap!

The diagram provided doesn't show a stop line, but I'd guess that it'd be either the stop line.

I actually don't have a 90's PA driver's manual. I meant the original post, but I wasn't clear on that. I think even a rock knows that you have to wait for a gap at an intersection. 

[1995hoo]

I think an issue is the proliferation of larger vehicles like SUVs and minivans that are harder to see around. I find it's often just plain easier to see the oncoming traffic if I stop behind the line pulled as far to the left as possible. If I pull out, often a large SUV will obstruct my view of the traffic coming the other way. I definitely pull out far less often than I did 25 years ago, though I should also note what I do will vary depending on the intersection (and time of day....in theory, at night the oncoming headlights make it easier, assuming of course people turn on their lights!).

So in other words, I find I may turn sooner if I hang back where I can see, regardless of whether pulling out means "you can go after the light changes.

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

[jeffandnicole]

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

Exactly.

Not sure if they teach that in driving school, but things like preventing accidents and how to minimize damage when you are in accidents, largely goes forgotten.

[1995hoo]

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

Exactly.

Not sure if they teach that in driving school, but things like preventing accidents and how to minimize damage when you are in accidents, largely goes forgotten.

I can't say as I recall whether I learned that from the instructor or from my father (who grew up in Flatbush). The driving school car was a ponderous beast.

[qguy]

I see this where I live in Pennsylvania as well. I currently live between Philadelphia and Harrisburg, but I even see it in Philadelphia. I'm convinced a lot of people who do this (at least where I live now) think they're being courteous, but of course it's not courteous to clog up an intersection so only one car can squirt through. I've even seen someone not go past the stop bar and then not be able to turn for more than one signal cycle. Meanwhile, traffic backs up farther and farther. How's that for courte– I mean moronic?

[MisterSG1]

I remember the driver's manual having the pull into the intersection language when I learned to drive nearly 10 years ago.  It's only for the first car though.

Strangely, around here, I've only heard the one car at a time rule only from the driving instructor during my lessons over 10 years ago. I'm not actually sure on the law regarding this in Ontario and I guess I'd have to consult the Ontario Highway Traffic Act to see, but in practice, NO ONE obeys that one car rule in reality, and people will be angry if you don't immediately follow the leading car into the intersection for the left turn.

I've definitely noticed that many people don't do it.  I always assumed there were unaware that one could (and that it's legal to exit the intersection in the all-red phase if you're in the intersection and don't find a gap before then; I've actually been honked at for doing that before because people were unaware of the law).

The assumption here is that the all-red phase exists solely for the purpose to clear left turning vehicles. Have you ever drove in Michigan, V? As for the all-red phase there....in Michigan, what all-red phase? There is no all-red phase with my experience in that state, as soon as one side hits red, the other hits green right at the exact same time.

The all-red phase is moreso for vehicles which run the lights, even if the law states that a yellow is an extension of a red, most drivers believe that the yellow is an extension of a green. Indeed, around here, if the opposing left faces a "protected ONLY" situation, there will be an all-red phase involving the oncoming left turn signal, and the straight signal on your side of the intersection.

Of course, if the purpose of the all-red phase were to get vehicles out, what about a tractor-trailer that makes a turn right when the light changes....especially if this truck is stopped and waiting for a safe time to proceed and is carrying a heavy load, it's going to take a lot longer than the all-red phase to get him out, in most cases, the following protected only phases for cross traffic is active upwards of 5 seconds or more while the truck gets out of the intersection. Indeed this is frustrating if you are waiting to make a left turn, but there's no way around this issue.

I wonder if fear of red light cameras might contribute to it.  If one isn't sure that the camera will be aware of the fact that you were in the intersection before the light went red and doesn't want to risk a ticket they might stay back.  I know I tend to drive under the speed limit and be VERY cautious if I know I'm in red light camera territory (heck, I was once at this intersection and refused to pull past the stop line to attempt a right on red despite all the people honking at me to go because NJ had cameras at the time and I didn't want to risk it).

Of course this would vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but are drivers punished for making improper left turns on red light cameras, around here, the only punishment you can be nailed for is entering and proceeding through the intersection on a red light. At red light camera intersections, I have in the past (and I'm sure we have all admitted to doing this at some point) during a permitted-protected signal, made a left turn clearly when the arrow disappeared and the traffic for straight was red. I was never punished with a red light camera in that scenario.


Of course, there is discretion drivers must use as not all intersections are equal. Surely, in my mind, when this question comes up, I think of an intersection in suburbia complete with left turning lanes (and in most cases) a traffic island that separates proceeding and oncoming traffic. Of course my behavior when making a left turn in this such intersection is going to be different from when I want to make a left turn in a downtown intersection which has two way traffic. Where in most cases in downtown Toronto, there are no left turn lanes nor are there islands, the left lane becomes an option lane of proceeding straight or turning left and there is in many cases just enough space for only one car to inch beyond the stop line to prepare to turn safely.

I think an issue is the proliferation of larger vehicles like SUVs and minivans that are harder to see around. I find it's often just plain easier to see the oncoming traffic if I stop behind the line pulled as far to the left as possible. If I pull out, often a large SUV will obstruct my view of the traffic coming the other way. I definitely pull out far less often than I did 25 years ago, though I should also note what I do will vary depending on the intersection (and time of day....in theory, at night the oncoming headlights make it easier, assuming of course people turn on their lights!).

So in other words, I find I may turn sooner if I hang back where I can see, regardless of whether pulling out means "you can go after the light changes.

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

I think this is somewhat of a copout, what would you do back then if a tractor-trailer was in the oncoming left turn lane.....surely you would see this situation a lot if you had to regularly drive through industrial areas of suburbia I'm sure.


But to the OP, which kind of intersection are drivers holding back on? Could that have something to do with it?

[vdeane]

Whether yellow is an extension of a green or a red varies by jurisdiction.  In NY, it's perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow and to be in it on a red, provided that you entered before the light turned red and exit immediately.  Other jurisdictions make it illegal to even enter the intersection on the yellow or to be in the intersection in the red at all.  Ideally, one would complete their turn in the yellow, but there is often still oncoming traffic coming in the yellow phase that actually getting through before the all-red is unreliable.

There was a story in Albany, NY about a local red light camera that did indeed give tickets to drivers turning on a green arrow (though it may have been a right turn instead of left).

[MisterSG1]

Whether yellow is an extension of a green or a red varies by jurisdiction.  In NY, it's perfectly legal to enter an intersection on a yellow and to be in it on a red, provided that you entered before the light turned red and exit immediately.  Other jurisdictions make it illegal to even enter the intersection on the yellow or to be in the intersection in the red at all.  Ideally, one would complete their turn in the yellow, but there is often still oncoming traffic coming in the yellow phase that actually getting through before the all-red is unreliable.

There was a story in Albany, NY about a local red light camera that did indeed give tickets to drivers turning on a green arrow (though it may have been a right turn instead of left).

The way I envision a yellow light myself, and I think it works that way by law here, as there is a section on the Ontario HTA regarding going through a yellow light. Basically, imagine a situation at a busy arterial where the traffic lights are off and the cops have control of the intersection. Since this is a busy intersection, cops let the street flow (but restrict all left turns), eventually the cops need to stop this flow, so they carefully raise their hands indicating to stop, obviously not everyone is going to be able to stop, so they end up going through the light. This is how I envision the definition of a yellow. Yellow means stop, if you can't, proceed. Obviously in nearly all permissive left turn situations, you can definitely stop before reaching the intersection, so entering on a yellow when for sure you can easily stop is breaking the law here, are you sure this is not the case in New York?

[1995hoo]

I think an issue is the proliferation of larger vehicles like SUVs and minivans that are harder to see around. I find it's often just plain easier to see the oncoming traffic if I stop behind the line pulled as far to the left as possible. If I pull out, often a large SUV will obstruct my view of the traffic coming the other way. I definitely pull out far less often than I did 25 years ago, though I should also note what I do will vary depending on the intersection (and time of day....in theory, at night the oncoming headlights make it easier, assuming of course people turn on their lights!).

So in other words, I find I may turn sooner if I hang back where I can see, regardless of whether pulling out means "you can go after the light changes.

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

I think this is somewhat of a copout, what would you do back then if a tractor-trailer was in the oncoming left turn lane.....surely you would see this situation a lot if you had to regularly drive through industrial areas of suburbia I'm sure.

....

I don't believe it's a copout at all. I wouldn't pull out if there were a big truck in the way blocking my view. I tend to be quite careful around large trucks that are turning anyway because they often need more room. But I decide when it's appropriate or safe to pull my car out into an intersection, not the person behind me and not the person who wrote a DMV manual.

[Duke87]

I learned to drive in Connecticut, but I definitely remember being taught (in 2004-05) that by the book you're not ever supposed to enter an intersection until you are able to clear it without stopping in the middle. By drivers ed, mind you. My father taught me the method of pulling into the intersection, my understanding is it's one of those "you're not technically supposed to but everyone does anyway" things.

[1995hoo]

I think an issue is the proliferation of larger vehicles like SUVs and minivans that are harder to see around. I find it's often just plain easier to see the oncoming traffic if I stop behind the line pulled as far to the left as possible. If I pull out, often a large SUV will obstruct my view of the traffic coming the other way. I definitely pull out far less often than I did 25 years ago, though I should also note what I do will vary depending on the intersection (and time of day....in theory, at night the oncoming headlights make it easier, assuming of course people turn on their lights!).

So in other words, I find I may turn sooner if I hang back where I can see, regardless of whether pulling out means "you can go after the light changes.

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

Something else I neglected to mention earlier, and this is something that no doubt varies a lot around the country....here in the DC area, the prevalence of red-light running has increased considerably in the past 25 years. Nowadays I'd say it's rare when I don't see at least two cars blow through at full speed after the light turns red, and a lot of people going right on red seem to think it's no longer required that you stop and yield. These are all further reasons I'm often less likely to pull out to turn left than I used to be–it all means you get stuck in the middle of the box for that much longer.

I should note that when I first got my license at age 16, I pulled out very frequently because to get to where we lived if you were coming from school, or Fairfax City in general, you had to make a U-turn and the green arrow didn't come on reliably even if multiple cars were stopped in the left turn lane. If you didn't pull out, you might never get around that U-turn.

Either way, certainly familiarity with the road and the specific intersection setup are two relevant considerations–in city driving where there are no turn arrows, it's quite different from suburban driving, although in the city jaywalking pedestrians present a different sort of problem.

[jeffandnicole]

I think an issue is the proliferation of larger vehicles like SUVs and minivans that are harder to see around. I find it's often just plain easier to see the oncoming traffic if I stop behind the line pulled as far to the left as possible. If I pull out, often a large SUV will obstruct my view of the traffic coming the other way. I definitely pull out far less often than I did 25 years ago, though I should also note what I do will vary depending on the intersection (and time of day....in theory, at night the oncoming headlights make it easier, assuming of course people turn on their lights!).

So in other words, I find I may turn sooner if I hang back where I can see, regardless of whether pulling out means "you can go after the light changes.

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

Something else I neglected to mention earlier, and this is something that no doubt varies a lot around the country....here in the DC area, the prevalence of red-light running has increased considerably in the past 25 years. Nowadays I'd say it's rare when I don't see at least two cars blow through at full speed after the light turns red, and a lot of people going right on red seem to think it's no longer required that you stop and yield. These are all further reasons I'm often less likely to pull out to turn left than I used to be—it all means you get stuck in the middle of the box for that much longer.

I should note that when I first got my license at age 16, I pulled out very frequently because to get to where we lived if you were coming from school, or Fairfax City in general, you had to make a U-turn and the green arrow didn't come on reliably even if multiple cars were stopped in the left turn lane. If you didn't pull out, you might never get around that U-turn.

Either way, certainly familiarity with the road and the specific intersection setup are two relevant considerations—in city driving where there are no turn arrows, it's quite different from suburban driving, although in the city jaywalking pedestrians present a different sort of problem.

When I went to college in Delaware in the mid 1990's, I swore back then they had a law stating 2 vehicles must go thru a red light prior to the cross traffic crossing on their green.

I always attributed it to their county-wide police system, which had so few police on the roads that they couldn't be bothered to stop people for minor infractions such as scooting thru just after a light turned red.  May not be completely accurate, but coming from Jersey where every town had cops on the road, there was a noticeable lack of police presence in Delaware.

[mariethefoxy]

I noticed the people are more hesitant to go into the middle of the intersection when theres a red light camera since theyre afraid of getting a red light camera ticket even though the cameras themselves are programmed to take into account people waiting in the middle of the intersection to make a left.

As for those "yellow traps" I havent seen any on the island. The intersections where the cycle goes Green then Green with Left Arrow are 3 way intersections where the opposite side has nowhere to turn left. Or if they are a 4 way intersection they have a Red Left Arrow which prevents people from waiting in the middle to go left anyway.

Another thing Ive noticed is people dont go right on red even if they are able to if its a camera intersection. From what I understand as long as you wait 2-3 seconds before going right on red, the machine wont register it as you went thru the red light.