Wisconsin notes

[Roadguy]

It looks like WISDOT is abandoning plans for a US 10 eastern bypass of Stevens Point.  They plan on abandoning future mapping of a new corridor.  There was a Public Hearing about 2 weeks ago.

http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/nc/us10portage/default.aspx

And we'll ultimately end up with a Texas-style freeway setup for the part between County 'J' and I-39.  I've been doing detailed map scribblings on this off and on over the past year or so.  I've found the part east of about Badger Av to be remarkably simple and straightforward to upgrade.  Think: 'narrow median freeway' - there's enough room in the median for an entirely new interstate-compatible EB roadway with the existing EB side to become a frontage road.  The part from Badger Av on westward would have to look and function like an urbanized freeway in Texas or metro Detroit.

---

Two decades of planning work for this very needed system upgrade and nothing to show for it.  Wastefully sad.



Mike

All I can say is an acre of undeveloped land costs less than an acre of developed land.  Any existing improvements within the existing US 10 corridor will be expensive and difficult to implement (once access is there it's impossible to remove, land costs are high because the land is developed, a systems interchange with I-39 will be cost prohibitive to implement).  Dedicating a corridor to someday relieve the pressure off the existing corridor especially at/near I-39 has many positives that outweigh the negatives.

By preserving the corridor, it does not mean they are going to build it.  It just means they have a corridor to build on if needed in the future.  The taxpayers will pay dearly for this decision and it basically means there will never be a systems interchange (no stoplights) between I-39/US10.

[Milwaukee, WY]

They're WISDOT installed.  They were on the 6 year highway plan and WISDOT made a press release after install.

Okay, I don't dispute that. But for reference, this is the document I was referring to (first paragraph specifically):

http://wisconsindot.gov/dtsdManuals/traffic-ops/manuals-and-standards/tsdm/06/06-01-11.pdf


iPhone

[triplemultiplex]

Damn, I figured the US 10 project would languish on the back burner until fewer stupid people were in charge of Wisconsin.  So much for planning.  Breezewoodism is spreading in the Badger State.

With this development, I would expect the existing interchange with I-39 is going to become a DDI in the next 10-15 years.  That's probably the best way to polish that turd.

[SEWIGuy]

Damn, I figured the US 10 project would languish on the back burner until fewer stupid people were in charge of Wisconsin.  So much for planning.  Breezewoodism is spreading in the Badger State.

With this development, I would expect the existing interchange with I-39 is going to become a DDI in the next 10-15 years.  That's probably the best way to polish that turd.

While I think they should preserve the corridor, the US-10 situation is hardly a Breezwood type example.  It *may* add three or four minutes to your trip and is rarely all that backed up. 

[The Ghostbuster]

That is probably why they are closing the book on the existing study, because it would not greatly reduce congestion. Personally, I think they should go forward with the mapping of the US 10 freeway corridor, even if it isn't built. However, I am probably in the minority, since at the 6/13/16 PIM, the majority of comments supported not preserving the proposed right-of-way.

[peterj920]

Damn, I figured the US 10 project would languish on the back burner until fewer stupid people were in charge of Wisconsin.  So much for planning.  Breezewoodism is spreading in the Badger State.

With this development, I would expect the existing interchange with I-39 is going to become a DDI in the next 10-15 years.  That's probably the best way to polish that turd.

They won't make that a DDI.  The loop ramp allows the majority of traffic to make a right turn onto US 10 from I-39 south and on northbound I-39, there are 2 exit ramps, one to US 10 east and Wis 66 west which eliminates a traffic signal on the east side of I-39.

[triplemultiplex]

They won't make that a DDI.  The loop ramp allows the majority of traffic to make a right turn onto US 10 from I-39 south and on northbound I-39, there are 2 exit ramps, one to US 10 east and Wis 66 west which eliminates a traffic signal on the east side of I-39.

I like a DDI there because of the proximity of the ramp terminals on the east side of the interchange to the next signalized intersection east (Maple Bluff Rd/Old Hwy 18).

[peterj920]

Right now the main turning movements are right turns which are a lot easier to make than left turns.  Where US 10 turns onto Wis 441 in Appleton, most of the traffic turns left which is why that is being turned into a DDI.

Besides the Right of Way costs for a DDI would be costly since there's businesses at the northwest quadrant of the interchange and would not improve traffic flow compared to now at the I-39 interchange. 

[peterj920]

In other news Wis 32/Ashland Ave opened to traffic last week and 8th St in De Pere is close to being open.  I'm guessing there will be overnight lane closures on I-41 to remove the Wis 32 shields from all of the overhead BGS. 

All of the signals were changed to monotube on Ashland while the signals on the cross streets remained the same.  There is also a new U turn signal which is a FYA southbound at Vanderparren Way. 

All of the new Wis 32 signs are missing red arrows.  Was probably a contractor error since all the shields on the BGS for the detour have the red arrows. 

[SEWIGuy]

In other news Wis 32/Ashland Ave opened to traffic last week and 8th St in De Pere is close to being open.  I'm guessing there will be overnight lane closures on I-41 to remove the Wis 32 shields from all of the overhead BGS. 

All of the signals were changed to monotube on Ashland while the signals on the cross streets remained the same.  There is also a new U turn signal which is a FYA southbound at Vanderparren Way. 

All of the new Wis 32 signs are missing red arrows.  Was probably a contractor error since all the shields on the BGS for the detour have the red arrows. 

Are they relocating WI-32?

[peterj920]

For the detour Wis 32 shields were posted on every overhead BGS on the mainline of I-41 between Hwy G and Hwy 29.  Ashland Ave and 8th St have new Wis 32 signs but they're missing red arrows.

I'm guessing the Wis 32 signs on I-41 will be coming down next week. 

[dvferyance]

In other news Wis 32/Ashland Ave opened to traffic last week and 8th St in De Pere is close to being open.  I'm guessing there will be overnight lane closures on I-41 to remove the Wis 32 shields from all of the overhead BGS. 

All of the signals were changed to monotube on Ashland while the signals on the cross streets remained the same.  There is also a new U turn signal which is a FYA southbound at Vanderparren Way. 

All of the new Wis 32 signs are missing red arrows.  Was probably a contractor error since all the shields on the BGS for the detour have the red arrows. 

Are they relocating WI-32?

It was relocted there as it once went down Lombardi Ave. I can;t make much sense as to why it heads west on Mason then up I-41 to WI-29. It should just stay north on Ashland then heads west on WI-29 from there.

[Big John]

^^ Ashland Ave north of Mason St. is residential/parkland and the city would object to that designation as to it would allow trucks to travel that way.

[dvferyance]

^^ Ashland Ave north of Mason St. is residential/parkland and the city would object to that designation as to it would allow trucks to travel that way.

It's amazing all the petty little things people complain about. If you can't deal with trucks driving down your street then move to another street with less traffic.

[peterj920]

I think WISDOT relocated Wis 32 from Lombardi onto Ashland so Wis 32 could be located on a connecting highway inside Green Bay so the state would have less responsibility. 

As for trucks I do not think they pay too much attention to route numbers in Green Bay.  For some reason there are way more innnercity highways than any city with 70,000 people or more.  For traffic passing through the Beltway around the city (I-41/I-43/Wis 172) is a lot faster and has a minimal affect on distance. 

[GeekJedi]

I think WISDOT relocated Wis 32 from Lombardi onto Ashland so Wis 32 could be located on a connecting highway inside Green Bay so the state would have less responsibility. 

As for trucks I do not think they pay too much attention to route numbers in Green Bay.  For some reason there are way more innnercity highways than any city with 70,000 people or more.  For traffic passing through the Beltway around the city (I-41/I-43/Wis 172) is a lot faster and has a minimal affect on distance. 

I don't think responsibility had much to do with it, as much as the non-typical use and plans along the route. My guess is that the Packers wanted to not have to deal with the state in the future if they wanted to expand north of Lombardi or decide they want changes in signaling, etc. The state will typically remove STH/US designations if they feel that the local community wants to do something "non-conforming" with the road. (See STH-241/Layton Blvd.)

There isn't much saving of "responsibility" by the state with the move. 

[peterj920]

Lombardi Ave underwent a major reconstruction and was expanded to 6 lanes between I-41 and Oneida St a few years after it became a county road.  I don't think the Packers or a non-conforming road had anything to do with the transfer since Lombardi Ave is a lot more modern now than it was when it was Wis 32.

[GeekJedi]

Lombardi Ave underwent a major reconstruction and was expanded to 6 lanes between I-41 and Oneida St a few years after it became a county road.  I don't think the Packers or a non-conforming road had anything to do with the transfer since Lombardi Ave is a lot more modern now than it was when it was Wis 32.

Which kind of makes my point. Green Bay, Ashwaubenon and Brown County (with, I guarantee, input from the Packers organization) designed and built the road. Typically in those cases, WisDOT does a jurisdictional transfer.

Edited to add: The state provided funds to Ashwaubenon, Green Bay, and Brown County to cover a lot of the work done there, but the funding was contingent on WisDOT transferring the road to the city/county. WisDOT paid $600,000 as their payment for the transfer. It's not much of a stretch to think that WisDOT passed the road to them so that they could design and build what they wanted, vs. WisDOT's standard designs.

[triplemultiplex]

Right now the main turning movements are right turns which are a lot easier to make than left turns.  Where US 10 turns onto Wis 441 in Appleton, most of the traffic turns left which is why that is being turned into a DDI.

Well DDI's don't have left turns in the traditional sense.   It's more like making a left between one-way roads.  I think SB to EB would flow better without a low-speed loop ramp.  Moreover, the geometry of the NB onramp would improve immensely.  Traffic would actually be able to get up to freeway speed by the time it gets to the gore.

Besides the Right of Way costs for a DDI would be costly since there's businesses at the northwest quadrant of the interchange and would not improve traffic flow compared to now at the I-39 interchange.

Big fan of Econolodge?
A DDI would free up more land than it would take, especially in that northwest quadrant.

[peterj920]

Right now the main turning movements are right turns which are a lot easier to make than left turns.  Where US 10 turns onto Wis 441 in Appleton, most of the traffic turns left which is why that is being turned into a DDI.

Well DDI's don't have left turns in the traditional sense.   It's more like making a left between one-way roads.  I think SB to EB would flow better without a low-speed loop ramp.  Moreover, the geometry of the NB onramp would improve immensely.  Traffic would actually be able to get up to freeway speed by the time it gets to the gore.

Besides the Right of Way costs for a DDI would be costly since there's businesses at the northwest quadrant of the interchange and would not improve traffic flow compared to now at the I-39 interchange.

Big fan of Econolodge?
A DDI would free up more land than it would take, especially in that northwest quadrant.

Would make a lot more sense to make traffic from I-39/US 51 south to US 10 east free flowing by adding a lane across the bridge.  That way traffic from US 10 east does not have to stop along with US 10 west traffic that does not have to stop currently.  That interchange is not the biggest part of the problem in Stevens Point.  It's the stretch between Old Hwy 18/Maple Bluff Rd and Badger Ave.  There isn't much right of way to work with to improve that stretch.  Frontage Roads would help but there isn't enough land unless there would be some costly real estate acquisitions. 

A Diverging Diamond is the preferred alternative for the I-39/County B Interchange which is more practical there since there are more left turns with the way the interchange is set up now and there would be minimal right of way costs to implement it.  Speaking of County B I wouldn't mind swapping County B and Wis 54 between where they meet in Plover and US 10.  Traffic could utilize more of the US 10 expressway by using the current County B/US 10 combo instead of Wis 54.  When it comes to mileage, it's only 0.1 miles further and 3 minutes faster than Wis 54 according to google maps. 

[mgk920]

Right now the main turning movements are right turns which are a lot easier to make than left turns.  Where US 10 turns onto Wis 441 in Appleton, most of the traffic turns left which is why that is being turned into a DDI.

Well DDI's don't have left turns in the traditional sense.   It's more like making a left between one-way roads.  I think SB to EB would flow better without a low-speed loop ramp.  Moreover, the geometry of the NB onramp would improve immensely.  Traffic would actually be able to get up to freeway speed by the time it gets to the gore.

Besides the Right of Way costs for a DDI would be costly since there's businesses at the northwest quadrant of the interchange and would not improve traffic flow compared to now at the I-39 interchange.

Big fan of Econolodge?
A DDI would free up more land than it would take, especially in that northwest quadrant.

Would make a lot more sense to make traffic from I-39/US 51 south to US 10 east free flowing by adding a lane across the bridge.  That way traffic from US 10 east does not have to stop along with US 10 west traffic that does not have to stop currently.  That interchange is not the biggest part of the problem in Stevens Point.  It's the stretch between Old Hwy 18/Maple Bluff Rd and Badger Ave.  There isn't much right of way to work with to improve that stretch.  Frontage Roads would help but there isn't enough land unless there would be some costly real estate acquisitions. 

A Diverging Diamond is the preferred alternative for the I-39/County B Interchange which is more practical there since there are more left turns with the way the interchange is set up now and there would be minimal right of way costs to implement it.  Speaking of County B I wouldn't mind swapping County B and Wis 54 between where they meet in Plover and US 10.  Traffic could utilize more of the US 10 expressway by using the current County B/US 10 combo instead of Wis 54.  When it comes to mileage, it's only 0.1 miles further and 3 minutes faster than Wis 54 according to google maps.

What would the ROW acquisition and construction cost of a 'Texas freeway' style upgrade to US 10 between Badger Ave and I-39 be compared with the now-cancelled bypass routing?

As for US 10 between there and Amherst Junction?  IMHO, there is plenty of room in the existing ROW to add a new eastbound roadway in the median with the existing eastbound side to become a major frontage/access roadway (to become County 'K'?), only needing new ROW for a new interchange and related wetland mitigation at WI 161.  Make the US 10 mainline from County 'J' to WI 161 look like the existing narrow-median part of US 10 at County 'J', with frontage roads between there and Badger Ave.  Between WI 161 and the existing freeway at Amherst Junction, the only upgrade that I would do is add a bridge overcrossing for County 'K' to cross US 10 and the adjacent CN mainline.

I'm wondering if the much lower ROW acquisition cost for that routing would make the overall project cost a 'wash'.

Mike

[peterj920]

There would have to be a lot of expensive real estate acquisitions between I-39 and Badger Ave.  East of there it would be easy to upgrade to freeway, but the expressway works well with non-stop traffic.  The problem is within Stevens Point.  The Brilowski Rd intersection is the biggest choke point with dedicated left turn lanes from Brilowski Rd onto US 10.  Applebees, Jung Garden Center, Huntington Bank, and the Fleet Farm Car Wash would all have to go if an interchange is placed there.  There's no shoulder along US 10 and the businesses are so close to the road between I-39 and Brilowski Rd where it would be extremely hard to make improvements without major teardowns.   

[triplemultiplex]

Would make a lot more sense to make traffic from I-39/US 51 south to US 10 east free flowing by adding a lane across the bridge.  That way traffic from US 10 east does not have to stop along with US 10 west traffic that does not have to stop currently.

A reasonable alternative.

[peterj920]

Would make a lot more sense to make traffic from I-39/US 51 south to US 10 east free flowing by adding a lane across the bridge.  That way traffic from US 10 east does not have to stop along with US 10 west traffic that does not have to stop currently.

A reasonable alternative.

I see how the Wis 794/Oklahoma Ave intersection was reconfigured in Milwaukee where traffic from Oklahoma onto Wis 794 north doesn't have to stop and it works well. But instead of having traffic eventually merge left I'd have the left lane with traffic from Wis 66 in the far left lane merge right after the bridge if 4 lanes are going to be maintained. 

The other thing that could be done to the intersection is have Wis 66 west traffic travel non-stop
with an eternal green light and add a lane that allows traffic from I-39 to merge from the left like the Wis 794 configuration.  I linked below what I'd like it modeled after.  Wouldn't take much work to do it. 


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fernwood,+Milwaukee,+WI/@42.9877236,-87.8874547,3a,47.7y,281.59h,91.48t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sidJvKherAGyPHiCon9yeLw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880517943db61629:0xb4b245c142700e48

[tchafe1978]

Came across this petition to build a bridge across the Mississippi River at Cassville. While the petition lists some compelling reasons to build a bridge at Cassville, I don't see it happening. I don't see anyway where the cost would be justified. Cassville is out of the way and not on a route to really anywhere. While there is currently a ferry across the river, it is really more of a tourist attraction than a viable commuter route or anything like that. What do you think?

https://www.change.org/p/bridge-the-gap-build-a-highway-bridge-across-the-mississippi-river-at-cassville-wi