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Horizontal Traffic Lights

Started by Roadsguy, October 26, 2012, 07:21:47 PM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: David Jr. on May 21, 2016, 03:35:16 PM
These horizontal signals are in front of the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City:




I would say somewhere between 25 to 50% of AC's lights are horizontal, especially those along Pacific Ave.  At some intersections they have mixed horizontal and vertical, such as: https://goo.gl/maps/b2GyGKpDuD82





jeffandnicole

This light in Newark, NJ has a misplaced left green arrow in this horizontal light, which should be between the yellow and green ball.  Of the intersections I traveled thru this past weekend, it's the only light with such an issue. https://goo.gl/maps/YyTDDVHmL9R2

dvferyance

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 01, 2017, 12:14:28 PM
Here's a bit of an odd one: these signals were turned horizontal because of the construction of a building immediately behind them. Probably two of very few, if not the only, horizontal signals in Iowa. This is (was? not sure if they're still there–I should probably go check) at 6th Ave and High St in downtown Des Moines. Picture is from January 2015.


Dubuque has a few horizontal signals. Although they appear to be very old and dated. Likely won't be around too much longer.

Ian

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
There are two in Utah that I know of. Both are at pedestrian bridges where clearance may be an issue. Otherwise, Utah is all vertical.
https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2

Unrelated to the horizontally mounted signals, but seeing these signals reminded me of a question I had when I traveled the state last summer. Is there a reason why Utah chooses not to install backplates (those black borders attached to the sides of the signals) around their doghouse signals? At a given intersection that has them, every other signal will have backplates except for the doghouse. I don't think I've ever been to or seen a place elsewhere that follows this practice so strictly.
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
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jakeroot

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 01, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
This light in Newark, NJ has a misplaced left green arrow in this horizontal light, which should be between the yellow and green ball.  Of the intersections I traveled thru this past weekend, it's the only light with such an issue. https://goo.gl/maps/YyTDDVHmL9R2

I've always thought that was a strange practice anyway. Somehow, placing a green orb in the center of a vertical 5-section tower is fine, but when it's horizontal, it's suddenly imperative that the green orb is on the far right.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: jakeroot on June 01, 2017, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 01, 2017, 12:27:03 PM
This light in Newark, NJ has a misplaced left green arrow in this horizontal light, which should be between the yellow and green ball.  Of the intersections I traveled thru this past weekend, it's the only light with such an issue. https://goo.gl/maps/YyTDDVHmL9R2

I've always thought that was a strange practice anyway. Somehow, placing a green orb in the center of a vertical 5-section tower is fine, but when it's horizontal, it's suddenly imperative that the green orb is on the far right.

Yep.  I would think just taking the vertical light and turning it 90 degrees should keep the light order in place.

7/8

Regina, SK uses horizontal lights along the mast arm, with vertical lights on the pole.


US 89

Quote from: Rothman on June 01, 2017, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
There are two in Utah that I know of. Both are at pedestrian bridges where clearance may be an issue. Otherwise, Utah is all vertical.
https://goo.gl/maps/eT1NzhcWgYR2
https://goo.gl/maps/fcXjT49uFep
Hm.  Although they are vertical now, I am pretty sure the traffic lights at Eagle Gate in SLC were at one point horizontal.

When was this? They have been vertical since at least the early-mid 2000s, and in 1983 they were hung on wires, according to several photos online of the flooding in that year.


Quote from: Ian on June 01, 2017, 01:39:00 PM
Unrelated to the horizontally mounted signals, but seeing these signals reminded me of a question I had when I traveled the state last summer. Is there a reason why Utah chooses not to install backplates (those black borders attached to the sides of the signals) around their doghouse signals? At a given intersection that has them, every other signal will have backplates except for the doghouse. I don't think I've ever been to or seen a place elsewhere that follows this practice so strictly.

Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512. And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.

However, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.

freebrickproductions

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Ian on June 01, 2017, 01:39:00 PM
Unrelated to the horizontally mounted signals, but seeing these signals reminded me of a question I had when I traveled the state last summer. Is there a reason why Utah chooses not to install backplates (those black borders attached to the sides of the signals) around their doghouse signals? At a given intersection that has them, every other signal will have backplates except for the doghouse. I don't think I've ever been to or seen a place elsewhere that follows this practice so strictly.

Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512. And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.

However, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.
I don't think it looks that bad. In fact, it actually looks better with the background than without, IMO. Though that's probably because I've grown up around these:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5986278,-86.9801484,3a,15y,188.94h,96.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sW7q9S82PoeOOr6MBceHuBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7898836,-86.9716231,3a,15y,188.04h,104.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ5LZyVgDKK776YlSYENW8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6982911,-86.6274576,3a,15y,155.35h,107.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snzCnybzL2DTVwU4fXvsW_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6719167,-86.5391984,3a,15y,103.94h,99.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfnR6jIF8GkjNL3gAeRa5nQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6914145,-86.5683002,3a,15y,195.65h,103.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szGRbaqtXXE0I0bb742tmzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6288554,-85.4618525,3a,15y,264.05h,97.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sofadXjNwGWM4z8p6TXq0PQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Though most of the backgrounds I've seen on doghouses in the area are more like this one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7052087,-86.5698991,3a,15y,1.28h,108.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8k6DQV9svzXgm6i2mUm18Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

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DaBigE

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512. And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.

I think the situation 90-degrees to the left of your image looks much worse. :-o
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

US 89

Quote from: DaBigE on June 01, 2017, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512. And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.

I think the situation 90-degrees to the left of your image looks much worse. :-o

I don't think it looks that bad, but that's probably because I've seen it many times. There are several doghouses mounted that way in the area, most of them older signals.

Ian

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512. And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.

What's wrong with that one? I've seen doghouse backplates like those in a countless number of other places across the US.

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PMHowever, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.

I'm pretty sure they're still installing right-turn doghouses, since those don't really need the FYA set-up. Here is an example along US 6 in Spanish Fork, with a new FYA and a doghouse on the same mast-arm.
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
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jwolfer

#112
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM

Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?

It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms

I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine



LGMS428

US 89

Quote from: Ian on June 02, 2017, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Because this is UDOT's idea of doghouse backplates: https://goo.gl/maps/dXUwcXKEV512. And I actually agree with them, this looks bad. IIRC, there is actually a guideline that prohibits backplates on doghouses.

What's wrong with that one? I've seen doghouse backplates like those in a countless number of other places across the US.

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 01, 2017, 03:27:57 PMHowever, I don't think they even install doghouses anymore. When they replace signals that had doghouses, the new ones have FYA.

I'm pretty sure they're still installing right-turn doghouses, since those don't really need the FYA set-up. Here is an example along US 6 in Spanish Fork, with a new FYA and a doghouse on the same mast-arm.

I meant left turn doghouses. But you're right, they are definitely still installing right turn doghouses.
There is a FYA right arrow at the Thanksgiving Point exit off I-15, though.

index

Sideways signals on wires in Lewiston Woodville, NC.

https://goo.gl/maps/FezjhKkTLMN2
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

US71

Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Aerobird

Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM

Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?

It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms

I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine



LGMS428

Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.
Rule 37. There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'.

realjd

Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM

Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?

It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms

I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine



LGMS428

Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.

I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.

Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.

UCFKnights

Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM

Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?

It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms

I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine



LGMS428

Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.

I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.

Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Yeah, was about the say the same. While FDOT seems to generally prefers to install mast arms (outside of weird geometry/long length intersections), it often seems like if FDOT isn't paying for it, such as something by the school district, they always cheap out and install on wires. Horizontal seems to just be by county, and in some, even within (such as Palm Beach County), its seemingly entirely random. Along with the color of the mast arms (unpainted, black, green, brown, etc, no rhyme or reason). I'd really like to see some more consistency

jwolfer

Quote from: UCFKnights on August 12, 2017, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM

Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?

It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms

I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine



LGMS428

Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.

I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.

Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Yeah, was about the say the same. While FDOT seems to generally prefers to install mast arms (outside of weird geometry/long length intersections), it often seems like if FDOT isn't paying for it, such as something by the school district, they always cheap out and install on wires. Horizontal seems to just be by county, and in some, even within (such as Palm Beach County), its seemingly entirely random. Along with the color of the mast arms (unpainted, black, green, brown, etc, no rhyme or reason). I'd really like to see some more consistency
When mastarms first became more common in NE Florida... Mast arms were black in Duval County, brown in Clay and rusty brown in St Johns, Volusia was green
Now all new installs seem to be unpainted.

I like the classic Florida concrete traffic light poles with spanwires

LGMS428


UCFKnights

Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2017, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on August 12, 2017, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
Quote from: Aerobird on August 12, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:45:43 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 13, 2016, 10:00:35 AM

Can we also add Florida to the list of states with widespread use of sideways signals?

It is not statewide... I know around Miami and Pensacola they are the norm.. But other parts of the state horizontal signals are rare. And guy wires are scarcer. A lot more mast arms

I have the thought that it could be due to hurricanes. Those parts of the state are most liklely to get hit by hurricanes. The horisontal mast arms have less wind resistance i imagine



LGMS428

Belatedly, IIRC any new traffic light installations within...I think it's 10 miles of the coast? MUST be on mast arms. And new mast arm installations in Florida are all but universally horizontal.

I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.

Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.
Yeah, was about the say the same. While FDOT seems to generally prefers to install mast arms (outside of weird geometry/long length intersections), it often seems like if FDOT isn't paying for it, such as something by the school district, they always cheap out and install on wires. Horizontal seems to just be by county, and in some, even within (such as Palm Beach County), its seemingly entirely random. Along with the color of the mast arms (unpainted, black, green, brown, etc, no rhyme or reason). I'd really like to see some more consistency
When mastarms first became more common in NE Florida... Mast arms were black in Duval County, brown in Clay and rusty brown in St Johns, Volusia was green
Now all new installs seem to be unpainted.

I like the classic Florida concrete traffic light poles with spanwires

LGMS428
Moving it a little more back towards the topic... I've noticed lately they seem to be installing the signals horizontal even on span wires when they cheap out and don't buy a mast arm here... as I'm in a horizontal signal area now. Horizontal signals on span wires strike me as really ugly.

I'm a bit mixed on span wire vs mast arm as they seem to drop the close side signals when they do the mast arm, and I like having that. I far prefer the look of horizontal signals on mast arms if it wasn't for the missing closing side signals that seem to accompany that.

Aerobird

Quote from: realjd on August 12, 2017, 08:43:04 AM
I've heard that also, but they're still installing the occasaional span wire intersections here in Melbourne. They may be able to get exemptions to the rule in some circumstances.

Horizontal lights are rare in this part of the state, even on new mast arm installations. The standard here now is for vertical mounted signals painted black with yellow reflective tape on the back plate, and 4-light FYA instead of doghouses.

I'd reckon it depends on how they define "10 miles from the coast". Are they putting wires at intersections by the Indian River, or towards I-95? If they measure from the beach, the latter might squeak outside the boundary.
Rule 37. There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'.

roadman65

I heard stories of that being near the coast mast arms a must, but Fred Farrel, the former head engineer for FDOT District 5 said there was no such mandate.  Now he told me this years ago, now it might of changed since, but I do see span wires installed at the coast in some places.

In Florida we have no set pattern as some counties will adopt a type of mast arm and before all the new signals can be changed out they already are installing a new type of arm.  In Orlando you will find Caltrans type of mast arm painted brown with a square sodium vapor street light mounted to the top of the vertical poles, but occasionally they do install span wires. 

Yes the horizontal lights do look better and in Central Florida the City of Maitland uses them and further north both Lake City and Gainesville uses them.  Some parts of Tampa uses them as well.  I was told by a friend who worked in Orange County that the State for some reason was objecting to them using horizontal mounts despite Miami, Pensacola, Panama City, Gainesville, Naples, Lake City, and even Fort Lauderdale now using them.
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Sheryl Crowe

Quillz

Quote from: 7/8 on June 01, 2017, 03:05:57 PM
Regina, SK uses horizontal lights along the mast arm, with vertical lights on the pole.


I like that, I think it's a good mix at maximizes visibility. My favorite style ever was near Montreal, which used horizontal traffic lights with different shapes for each color, and the signals were bookended by red lights. And there were still vertical signals mounted on the sides.

RG407

Quote from: roadman65 on August 13, 2017, 03:00:12 AM
I heard stories of that being near the coast mast arms a must, but Fred Farrel, the former head engineer for FDOT District 5 said there was no such mandate.  Now he told me this years ago, now it might of changed since, but I do see span wires installed at the coast in some places.

In Florida we have no set pattern as some counties will adopt a type of mast arm and before all the new signals can be changed out they already are installing a new type of arm.  In Orlando you will find Caltrans type of mast arm painted brown with a square sodium vapor street light mounted to the top of the vertical poles, but occasionally they do install span wires. 

Yes the horizontal lights do look better and in Central Florida the City of Maitland uses them and further north both Lake City and Gainesville uses them.  Some parts of Tampa uses them as well.  I was told by a friend who worked in Orange County that the State for some reason was objecting to them using horizontal mounts despite Miami, Pensacola, Panama City, Gainesville, Naples, Lake City, and even Fort Lauderdale now using them.

Mast arms should be required statewide.  The entire state is vulnerable to hurricanes.  After Hurricane Charley in 2004, there were some wire span intersections that were a real mess around Orlando.  But the mast arms were mostly just fine.

The state must be schizophrenic.  They object to horizontal signals, but they are letting some coastal areas put up span wires.



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