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School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions

Started by Truvelo, November 13, 2009, 01:54:55 PM

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Truvelo

Hey folks, I need some answers for the following.

Last week I came across several school zones where there is a 20mph limit during restricted hours. What exactly are the restricted hours as they weren't posted on the signs? I passed most of them during the middle of the day and the traffic in front and behind was doing around 35 which is the limit either side of the school zone.

Another thing that confused me was the no turn on red signs with an exception below that was in so small a typeface that I couldn't read it properly. I think it said something like except right turn lane which sort of contradicts the meaning of right turn on red since it can only be performed when turning right.

Both of these were in Ohio if it helps.
Speed limits limit life


citrus

It depends on the state. When I lived in RI I got a ticket in a school zone, and it was at least an hour before school started. The cop mentioned something about it being in effect during daylight hours.

In upstate NY most school speed signs were accompanied with a "7am-6pm" placard.

In California I usually see "When Children Are Present".

About the right turn, I've seen cases where there are 2 right turn lanes, and only the rightmost of the lanes is allowed to turn right on red.

Brandon

The hours are usually while children are entering/leaving school (approx. 8-9am and 3pm).  Personally, I hate the signs because of their ambiguity.  Around my area, we have ones that state "WHILE FLASHING" and have yellow lights that flash during these times.  I like those much better.

I hate the signs that are so small you cannot possibly read the type on them.  Most of the ones I've seen usualy say "When pedestrians (or children) are present" or give a time such as "2pm-9pm".  For the legend on yours, just remember that it is Ohio.  :spin:
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

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corco

In Laramie we have an intersection with right on red banned during the daytime because there's a diagonal pedestrian crossing and you'd hit peds by turning right on red

Brandon

Quote from: citrus on November 13, 2009, 02:13:51 PM
About the right turn, I've seen cases where there are 2 right turn lanes, and only the rightmost of the lanes is allowed to turn right on red.

We have more than a few of those around Chicagoland.  They usually state "Right Turn On Red From Right Lane Only".
Example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.75068,-88.036408&spn=0,359.964209&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.750669,-88.036509&panoid=K2z3pFScAYg4v6JZwh9DDQ&cbp=12,208.72,,0,3.81
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Brandon

Quote from: corco on November 13, 2009, 02:18:52 PM
In Laramie we have an intersection with right on red banned during the daytime because there's a diagonal pedestrian crossing and you'd hit peds by turning right on red

Aren't there pedestrians at night?
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Alex

Most zones in Florida are accompanied by a yellow beacon that flashes when they are in effect. If there are no flashers with the signs, times (morning and afternoon) are displayed. I have seen the "when children present" signs before, but they are not used in Florida.

There are sometimes turning restrictions at intersections that coincide with the school zone. These generally do not apply outside of the school zone hours.

School zone times generally extend an hour or so before and after the actual dismissal or arrival time. I suppose this is for late arrivals or kids that hang around the school grounds for awhile before heading home.

agentsteel53

Quote from: Brandon on November 13, 2009, 02:19:59 PM

Aren't there pedestrians at night?

maybe the diagonal is not available at night?  or, alternately, there is so little traffic (vehicle and pedestrian) that the driver of a right-turning vehicle can make a judgement call and turn safely.
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74/171FAN

All the ones I've seen in VA also have the "when flashing" on them with the exception of one school on VA 106 in Prince George County where there's none of those but the speed limit goes down to 35 right before the school as it's just east of the courthouse
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

corco

Quote
Aren't there pedestrians at night?

maybe the diagonal is not available at night?  or, alternately, there is so little traffic (vehicle and pedestrian) that the driver of a right-turning vehicle can make a judgement call and turn safely.

The latter- it's the crosswalk between the dorms and campus- once classes are over it's not used that often

Duke87

The ones in my city are all "School - Speed Limit 25 When Flashing", with a radar speed check display.

They must have an internal clock but apparently they don't have the school year in any way programmed in. They still flash at the appropriate times all through July and August and on holidays. Not on weekends, though, at least.

Also, some of these things are on streets where the speed limit is already 25 regardless of the hour or location. :spin:
Ah well, they still remind you how fast you're going, at least.

The best part, though, is the fact that these are all fairly new, and the old signs with conflicting info are still up in some places. So, you'll see "School - Speed Limit 25 When Flashing" followed right up by "School - Speed Limit 30" (note to self: get a picture of this)
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

agentsteel53

the worst is the kind where several intervals of restriction are listed, all in 2" high letters.

"If you cannot read all of this, figure out what time zone you're in, note whether the current state observes Daylight Savings Time, wonder if there is an exemption for federal holidays, and check the tree 600 yards away for small children - or a police car - all in the interval before you get to this sign ... you're going too fast!"
live from sunny San Diego.

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Bryant5493

I've seen hours posted in some areas and the flashing beacons in some areas in Georgia. In Tucker, an Atlanta suburb, I saw "Army" time hours posted. Confusing for those unfamiliar with it.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

Riverside Frwy


jjakucyk

Here in Cincinnati, and many of the surrounding 'burbs, the school speed limit is displayed with the flashing yellow lights, as such:



The turn restrictions here are usually "No Turn On Red:  7AM to 4PM On School Days"  I much prefer the ones back in Illinois "No Turn On Red:  On School Days When Children Are Present"  That gives you an out when it makes sense. 

We also have many of those "No Turn On Red:  Except Curb Lane" where there's multiple right turn lanes. 

My favorite though has to be the the surprisingly common number of STOP signs with a supplementary "Except Right Turn" signs we have here. 
http://maps.google.com/maps?gl=us&om=0&ie=UTF8&ll=39.154666,-84.484938&spn=0,359.995118&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.154719,-84.485028&panoid=HHlhCye0NzOP5QA1ziNk7Q&cbp=12,29.25,,0,8.67

agentsteel53

Quote from: jjakucyk on November 13, 2009, 08:25:23 PM
Here in Cincinnati, and many of the surrounding 'burbs, the school speed limit is displayed with the flashing yellow lights, as such:

[animated image]


whoa, that's a GIF file?  Did they add 24-bit capacity to GIF files when I was not looking, or is that just a really well-optimized palette?
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

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jjakucyk

It's a 256-color perceptual palette with noise dithering from Photoshop CS3 (not one of the GIF presets, but all available through the pull-down menus).

Bryant5493

Quote from: jjakucyk on November 13, 2009, 08:25:23 PMMy favorite though has to be the the surprisingly common number of STOP signs with a supplementary "Except Right Turn" signs we have here. 

I saw a sign like that for the first time in southwest Atlanta. I thought it was weird, but it makes sense. If you click the link below, you'll see the odd angle of the street.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Barge+Road+SW+&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.847644,74.179688&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Barge+Rd+SW,+Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia+30331&ll=33.678354,-84.506192&spn=0,359.98189&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.67843,-84.506262&panoid=dRWwfmHRB8pXf-5nJzU9Yg&cbp=12,336.9,,0,10.53


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

agentsteel53

Quote from: jjakucyk on November 13, 2009, 08:48:20 PM
It's a 256-color perceptual palette with noise dithering from Photoshop CS3 (not one of the GIF presets, but all available through the pull-down menus).

certainly does the job!  :sombrero:
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

mightyace

In middle TN, most school zone speed limit signs have flashing lights for when they're in force.

The ones that don't say "When Children are Present."

The annoying thing down here is that they place school zone speed limit signs anywhere that is even remotely near a school.  Once such zone on Hillsborough Rd. in northern Williamson County has the flashing lights but the school is about 200 yards from the road!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Franklin,+Williamson,+Tennessee&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.910968,114.169922&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FUgsJAIdZnzS-g&split=0&hq=&hnear=Franklin,+Williamson,+Tennessee&ll=36.009443,-86.88801&spn=0.00322,0.006968&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=36.009689,-86.888122&panoid=MwfjKUjkNaaHKocvra0b7w&cbp=12,38.71,,0,4.52

That the school way in the back on the right!
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I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

Ian

In Pennsylvania, there is a similar signal/sign to which jjakucyk posted, except the bottom of the sign reads "WHEN FLASHING".
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
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Ian

UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
Youtube l Flickr

mapman

QuoteIn middle TN, most school zone speed limit signs have flashing lights for when they're in force.

The ones that don't say "When Children are Present."

How does TN define "When Children are Present"?  California defines it as anytime that a child is present anywhere on the campus, i.e. during the entire school day!    :confused:

That definition has never made sense to me -- the only time a car would endanger children is if the children were near the roadway, such as at the beginning or ending of the school day.  I would much prefer to have the flashing beacons used in other states.

Truvelo

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 13, 2009, 09:13:12 PM
Quote from: jjakucyk on November 13, 2009, 08:48:20 PM
It's a 256-color perceptual palette with noise dithering from Photoshop CS3 (not one of the GIF presets, but all available through the pull-down menus).

certainly does the job!  :sombrero:

I cheated a little with the one on my website here. If you scroll down to the third picture and drag the mouse over it with the left button pressed you'll see I broke the picture down into smaller sections and used tables to form the picture. That way only the section with the flashing lights is a .gif while the rest is still a 24bit .jpg :)
Speed limits limit life

simguy228

I don't get it but we keep the school-zone signals all day in N.E TN. When I lived in FL as a kid, we never did that :banghead: :paranoid: :pan:
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