Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)

[Interstate 69 Fan]

My guess is they numbered it I-422 because it wouldn't connect to I-459 on its north end, but it would at its southern.

[Tourian]

Maybe the Northern Beltline should have been un-numbered, or given a state highway designation.

It was going to be State Route 959 at first but luckily got upgraded to be part of the Appalachian Development so it could get hooked in with Corridor X...it is now called Corridor X-1 and is fully federally funded.

[froggie]

It was going to be State Route 959

Internal planning number.  They've talked about making it an interstate for at least 15 years.

...but luckily got upgraded to be part of the Appalachian Development so it could get hooked in with Corridor X

It was already going to connect to Corridor X.  Becoming part of the ADHS did not change or "improve" that.

it is now called Corridor X-1 and is fully federally funded.

First part is correct.  Second part is false.  it is *NOT* fully funded...not by a longshot.  What becoming part of the ADHS does is make it eligible to be paid for by 100% Federal funds...no state funds required.  But it does not automatically add Federal funding to pay for the project.  Because there is no longer a separate pot of ADHS funding, ALDOT must pull money from its normal Federal highway funding in order to pay for anything on the Northern Beltline.  This means the Northern Beltline is competing for funding with the Interstates and the major cross-state highways like US 72, US 82, or US 231.

Sure they could put their Federal highway funding into building the Northern Beltline.  But that would mean no Federal funding for widening or repaving the Interstates or other major highways for several years.  This is in no small part why only a tiny portion of the Northern Beltline has made it to construction....because ALDOT doesn't have the money right now to build the rest.

[Tourian]

According to ALDOT's site it is 100% federally funded. I shouldve known better that it was a lie and came here to check with you first.
betterbeltline.org

By "connect" with Corridor X I meant as far as funding was concerned. Not the obvious physical connection.

[andy3175]

I think this is the relevant passage regarding 100% federal funding ... the FAQ answer is of course nuanced:

http://betterbeltline.org/faqs.php

Where will the money come from?
Because Congress made the Appalachian Development (APD) Highway System a priority, any projects on the BNB that are authorized by September 30, 2050 are eligible for 100% Federal funding, with no requirement for matching funds from the State. The first phase of the Beltline was constructed using the remaining designated APD funds. Remaining APD projects will be funded from ALDOT's overall funding. Specific project funding is determined based upon available funding and needs assessment, among other considerations.

I guess I don't understand how the northern beltline can be "eligible for 100% Federal funding" yet remaining projects would be "funded from ALDOT's overall funding."

[codyg1985]

I think this is the relevant passage regarding 100% federal funding ... the FAQ answer is of course nuanced:

http://betterbeltline.org/faqs.php

Where will the money come from?
Because Congress made the Appalachian Development (APD) Highway System a priority, any projects on the BNB that are authorized by September 30, 2050 are eligible for 100% Federal funding, with no requirement for matching funds from the State. The first phase of the Beltline was constructed using the remaining designated APD funds. Remaining APD projects will be funded from ALDOT's overall funding. Specific project funding is determined based upon available funding and needs assessment, among other considerations.

I guess I don't understand how the northern beltline can be "eligible for 100% Federal funding" yet remaining projects would be "funded from ALDOT's overall funding."

I think what Froggie is referring to is that while the project is or can be 100% federally funded, the pot of money allocated to Alabama remains the same. So if money is spent on this project, then that takes away from other federal funding used to supplement the state funding for other projects across the state.

Say for example you wanted to build the bridges along the segment of the BNB between AL 79 and AL 75. Let's assume that project will cost around $30 million and that Alabama receives $500 million in federal funding per year. That means that $30 million in federal funding has to be given up on other projects across the state. Typically, other projects receive 80% federal funding and 20% state funding. That means that other projects across the state will have access to $470 million in federal funding instead of $500 million for that year.

That, and the exorbitant cost of building the BNB through rugged terrain is why the construction of the BNB is going along at a snail's pace and will continue to do so. There are more pressing needs across the state that, IMO, are way more important than the BNB.

[Rothman]

I am wondering how it is 100% eligible.  They're going to allow them to use HSIP to build it?

The only other situation I can think of offhand this early in the morning is to use toll credits, but Alabama doesn't get those.

[lordsutch]

I am wondering how it is 100% eligible.  They're going to allow them to use HSIP to build it?

The only other situation I can think of offhand this early in the morning is to use toll credits, but Alabama doesn't get those.

All of the remaining APD system is eligible for 100% federal funding since TEA-21. Congress changed the law to eliminate the state match, but also eliminated the dedicated funding stream for APD, so states have no longer have an incentive to "use it or lose it" or prioritize APD projects over others.

[The Ghostbuster]

Has the segment between state highways 75 and 79 been completed yet? Its completion date was said to be last fall.

[Charles2]

Has the segment between state highways 75 and 79 been completed yet? Its completion date was said to be last fall.
[/quote

No.

[The Ghostbuster]

Thanks for the update. Does anyone know when this short segment might be completed?

[Charles2]

Thanks for the update. Does anyone know when this short segment might be completed?

Multiple choice:

1) When pigs fly.
2) When hell freezes over
3) The 12th of Never (and that's a long, long time)

Truth be told, this segment of road serves no redeeming purpose. (It can be argued that the same thing can be said for the entire route).  It connects two routes in the least populated area of Jefferson County, and as it is, SR-75 and SR-79 come within less than a mile of directly intersecting each other about three miles south where the present construction is.

[freebrickproductions]

Thanks for the update. Does anyone know when this short segment might be completed?

Multiple choice:

1) When pigs fly.
2) When hell freezes over
3) The 12th of Never (and that's a long, long time)

Truth be told, this segment of road serves no redeeming purpose. (It can be argued that the same thing can be said for the entire route).  It connects two routes in the least populated area of Jefferson County, and as it is, SR-75 and SR-79 come within less than a mile of directly intersecting each other about three miles south where the present construction is.

My money's on sometime within the next century and a half, eventually, and maybe.

[silverback1065]

Thanks for the update. Does anyone know when this short segment might be completed?

Multiple choice:

1) When pigs fly.
2) When hell freezes over
3) The 12th of Never (and that's a long, long time)

Truth be told, this segment of road serves no redeeming purpose. (It can be argued that the same thing can be said for the entire route).  It connects two routes in the least populated area of Jefferson County, and as it is, SR-75 and SR-79 come within less than a mile of directly intersecting each other about three miles south where the present construction is.

the current tiny segment that is under construction is such a bizarre place to start, what if this project gets cancelled or delayed significantly?  this is just an overbuilt county road connector at this point!

[Rothman]

I am wondering how it is 100% eligible.  They're going to allow them to use HSIP to build it?

The only other situation I can think of offhand this early in the morning is to use toll credits, but Alabama doesn't get those.

All of the remaining APD system is eligible for 100% federal funding since TEA-21. Congress changed the law to eliminate the state match, but also eliminated the dedicated funding stream for APD, so states have no longer have an incentive to "use it or lose it" or prioritize APD projects over others.

Heh.  Forgot that some states have little bits and pieces left on the ADHS to complete.

So, as long as a project is on the old ADHS, it's eligible for 100% federal funding, no matter the source?  That's a little something of an incentive, although since it would be a hit to their overall OL, it's still a question of whether they'd want to use it on the ADHS or not.

[ukfan758]

Will someone explain to me why this road is needed, especially for the potential cost and time for construction? I just don't see any benefit to it. Upgrading malfunction junction to a stack or something similar and widening 65 and 20/59 through downtown and the suburbs would be a much better use of funds in my opinion.

[The Ghostbuster]

My guess is that the Birmingham Northern Beltline is to more-or-less provide a complete beltway around the Birmingham area. Perhaps upgrading existing freeways would have been more beneficial, but unfortunately, we're not the ones who make the decisions about projects like these.

[compdude787]

One of the issues I've noticed with Birmingham's freeway network is that there is no way for traffic going north and south on I-65 to bypass downtown Birmingham since I-459 doesn't connect back around to I-65 on the north side of the city. I guess that's what this project is trying to solve.

[lordsutch]

Will someone explain to me why this road is needed, especially for the potential cost and time for construction? I just don't see any benefit to it. Upgrading malfunction junction to a stack or something similar and widening 65 and 20/59 through downtown and the suburbs would be a much better use of funds in my opinion.

It isn't needed (except to fulfill the ambitions of the far-north suburbs to be the next Hoover), although at least the I-65 to I-59 section will allow through trucks to be routed away from downtown if it's ever built. Extending I-22 east to the vicinity of the I-20/59 interchange would have also produced similar benefits, but ALDOT has shelved that idea in favor of the beltline for whatever reason.

[froggie]

Extending I-22 east to the vicinity of the I-20/59 interchange would have also produced similar benefits, but ALDOT has shelved that idea in favor of the beltline for whatever reason.

A lot of pollution and SuperFund sites in the way of any I-22 extension, as I understand it.

[ukfan758]

Extending I-22 east to the vicinity of the I-20/59 interchange would have also produced similar benefits, but ALDOT has shelved that idea in favor of the beltline for whatever reason.

A lot of pollution and SuperFund sites in the way of any I-22 extension, as I understand it.

Is ERP Coke by chance on that list? If not, which businesses along there probably are?

[sparker]

Extending I-22 east to the vicinity of the I-20/59 interchange would have also produced similar benefits, but ALDOT has shelved that idea in favor of the beltline for whatever reason.

A lot of pollution and SuperFund sites in the way of any I-22 extension, as I understand it.

Is ERP Coke by chance on that list? If not, which businesses along there probably are?

Let's see -- there's an airport, a coal/coke loading/offloading facility, and a railroad yard between the east end of I-22 and the I-20/59 east interchange.  One facility to be circumvented and another two posing serious environmental cleanup issues.  Don't see that happening anytime soon -- hence slim & none on the chances for a direct 22-east-20 connection. 

[barcncpt44]

A new study suggests the Northern Beltline would cause a $2.67 million economic impact each year in the Birmingham area and create about 14,000 jobs with an average salary of more than $61,000 -- an amount higher than the median Alabama income.  The study was done by the Appalachian Regional Commission. 
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/northern_beltline_to_make_267.html

[ARMOURERERIC]

So it has a 1000 year ROI.  What are we waiting for.

[froggie]

More than that.  If you're basing it on that annual economic impact and the estimated cost (on the order of $5-6 billion), you're looking at closer to a 2000 year ROI.