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2019 Orange County road projects

Started by MarkF, January 01, 2019, 04:16:31 AM

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djsekani

Quote from: TheStranger on June 08, 2019, 12:18:29 PM

I don't know that part of Orange County well enough to have an opinion one way or another, but is the existing traffic using I-5 and Route 133 busy enough that 241 bypassing Irvine would make a difference?


Irvine is actually the destination for most traffic as it's the regional job center. There is a ton of traffic coming over from the Inland Empire via CA-91, as well as locally via I-5 and I-405 from either direction. The toll road traffic is distributed via CA-261 for the airport business center and CA-133 for the Spectrum district. The part of CA-241 beyond that serves commuters from Foothill Ranch, Rancho Santa Margarita, Ladera Ranch, and Rancho Mission Viejo (the last two of which are master-planned communities that are still being built) as they travel to jobs in Irvine and elsewhere.

Quote from: sparker on June 08, 2019, 04:26:27 PM
^^^^^^^^^
Tolled or not, the concept of bringing CA 241 back to I-5 in San Clemente was always as a relief route to I-5.  It was essentially to provide the same -- albeit on the east side of I-5 -- function as ascribed to the CA 73 toll road as a "relief route" for the combination of I-5 and I-405 from South County to Costa Mesa -- as well as be a full I-5 bypass until essentially out of the county (IIRC, the last mile or so of the proposed corridor straddled the county line).  IMO, this was a "sop" to developers of the hilly areas behind San Clemente; already a mecca for biotech companies, the toll road, complete with interchanges at the major uphill arterials, would be a selling point for companies looking to locate in the area (in a similar fashion to Rancho Santa Margarita further north on 241).  There isn't a significant San Diego via Oceanside-to-Riverside or Corona through traffic flow that would have been able to take advantage of a completed CA 241; that traffic has always been inland on I-15 and/or I-215.   The long-term South Orange County modus operandi has been to expedite both commercial development and higher-end housing to accommodate the personnel;  having only one viable freeway corridor (I-5) in that neck of the woods has always been a sticking point in that process (it still is the only viable freeway from San Juan Capistrano southward).  While served by both Metrolink and the "Coaster" Amtrak services, the traffic situation has more or less reached a point of stasis -- it's getting marginally worse over time, which hardly functions as a selling point for further development of the area (the local mantra, for better or worse, seems to be "grow or die").  But with more residents come an ever-growing number of NIMBY's, who have no qualms about using environmental issues to underscore their self-interest -- once their personal situations are dealt with, there's little desire to boost the developers' agendas.  So more and more development takes place while the access points to such remain static -- and eventually inadequate.  Welcome to OC, South County edition!   :pan:   

For where the growth is happening, the biggest bottleneck currently is CA-74 between I-5 and Antonio Parkway. There really needs to be a lane or two added through there.

The idea of a relief route for I-5 south of CA-73 is going to be a hard sell to just about anyone in the area. There is talk about increasing capacity on I-5, which makes sense since it's not like anyone's going to build a second freeway between it and Camp Pendleton. All the residents in the proposed CA-241 pathways are just wondering why they suddenly need another vital link to San Diego.


TheStranger

Quote from: djsekani on June 09, 2019, 01:12:24 AM

For where the growth is happening, the biggest bottleneck currently is CA-74 between I-5 and Antonio Parkway. There really needs to be a lane or two added through there.


I noticed San Juan Creek Road parallel to Route 74 except for an unconstructed portion between Camino Chico and Avenue La Pata.  Once built out, would this essentially serve the same purpose as a 74 widening in that area?  (This would also allows people using the Los Patrones Parkway extension past 241 to then avoid ever getting on 74 to reach I-5)
Chris Sampang

sparker

^^^^^^^^^^
Back in the late '80's and early '90's when the whole toll complex concept was being sold to the public, that line diverging NE from I-5 at the south end of San Clemente was in itself one of the main salient points of the whole system; the idea was "look here, now you don't have to slog up I-5 through Lake Forest and Irvine unless you have to" -- about the time the existing freeways were just starting to experience most-of-the-day congestion.  And the tolled concept went to directly addressing the fiscal conservatism that has always characterized OC's political/economic arena -- although alternate political views have gained a foothold in the "flatlands" of OC, that conservatism still permeates South County.  So it was sold as functionally self-financing via user fees and PPP.  But the "relief route" aspect was always a bit misleading; there was never a really efficient way to get back to the central part of the county (although an eastern CA 22 extension was initially explored but rejected because it would have taken high-priced Santiago Canyon properties).  As eventually configured, the purpose was always to enhance development of the "uphill" areas, particularly after the areas adjacent to the I-5 corridor were built out very early -- and there was really nowhere to expand except up the hills in both directions (one of the raisons d'etre for the CA 73 toll road as well).  But attracting major employers to those areas absent limited-access facilities was problematic; but eventually tech companies started pouring into Aliso Viejo along 73 and RSM along 241; the tolls were not so onerous as to be prohibitive to commercial usage (and often factored into invoicing), so truck access was thus expedited.  While OCTA and their toll road authority might publicly piss and moan about the loss of the San Clemente connection,  one of their other goals -- encouragement of commercial & residential development in the areas adjoining the toll facilities -- has definitely been reached.  Something tells me that they'll be able to live with the status quo for the foreseeable future.   



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