Roads severed at the US-Canada border

[sdmichael]

You also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries.

In the United States, homegrown terrorism is a far more serious threat than international terrorism. Of course, The Media ignores this threat.

Homegrown terrorism should be a priority front and center by every law enforcement agency in the land.

How many rights are you willing to give up for that? One of our "Founding Fathers" is quoted as saying - "Those that would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both." I certainly am unwilling to give those up. I think that to do so spits on the graves of all those that have died to help preserve them. Terrorism and Tyranny are not that far apart.

[vdeane]

Certainly was that way in New York. Show your license and you were on your way. Could take anything across, including take-out food that you're bringing home from the other country.

Yeah, when I was little I didn't even know the difference between customs and toll booths!  In my mind, they were both places where you had to wait in line, stop, and interact with someone in a booth.  My Dad even once asked CBSA for driving directions because he didn't feel like taking ON 401!  My brain didn't really get the concept of what a foreign country was either (and it doesn't help that the only place outside of the US I had ever been to before 2009 was Ontario).

I am starting to wonder if they treated border state residents differently in the pre-9/11 days, given that we're from NY and Pete from Boston is from MA.  Of course, even back then they reserved the right to give disrespectful travelers a very hard time.

I also had another thought recently regarding the difference in how US and Canadian customs treat travelers: they have entirely different missions.  The mission of CBSA is to welcome immigrants/tourists while turning away those who are trying to enter illegally.  The mission of CBP, on the other hand, is to fight terrorism while allowing "legitimate" traffic through.  It's essentially "innocent until proven guilty" verses "guilty until proven innocent" (quite visible in that Canada will ask one to justify their travels if they think you're lying for some reason, while the US almost always will grill you on something).

I bring this up as they apparently have a policy to not "interdict" things as much at the border, but within a certain distance to the border. If security is such a concern for them, why let people past the gate and up to the house windows? Why not keep them far from those windows instead?

Because then they wouldn't be able to use CBP as a backdoor federal police force.

[Pete from Boston]

I do recall hearing it was easier for folks in border states.   Also, I started driving to Canada when I was 18.  The border agents, like cops, suspect know kids are usually up to something (whether bringing back undeclared liquor, hiding a joint somewhere, etc.), and to be fair, the main motivation for going that far was being able to go out to bars and clubs.

And they still break my balls a little over what I'm going to Canada for ("had a great time camping at Mont-Orford, thought I'd try Mont-Mégantic" is not really satisfying enough).  I've gotten "Do you know anyone in Canada?"  "You're coming back here already?"  And I'm a very polite individual in my public interactions, very happy to answer their questions.  Perhaps I don't act scared enough.

[sdmichael]

I do recall hearing it was easier for folks in border states.   Also, I started driving to Canada when I was 18.  The border agents, like cops, suspect know kids are usually up to something (whether bringing back undeclared liquor, hiding a joint somewhere, etc.), and to be fair, the main motivation for going that far was being able to go out to bars and clubs.

And they still break my balls a little over what I'm going to Canada for ("had a great time camping at Mont-Orford, thought I'd try Mont-Mégantic" is not really satisfying enough).  I've gotten "Do you know anyone in Canada?"  "You're coming back here already?"  And I'm a very polite individual in my public interactions, very happy to answer their questions.  Perhaps I don't act scared enough.

I have, so far, found Canadian border officials to be pleasant. They do ask a lot of questions sometimes, but I am traveling to a foreign country, so I expect it. One of the last trips to Canada, I was on a bicycle trip. I was only staying there as long as it took me to bicycle back to the US (day one of my tour was Vancouver, BC to Bellingham, WA). They were initially confused about the answer I gave them but cleared it up easily. Even so, they were still friendly and added "Welcome to Canada".

When returning to the US, I have been treated very poorly. I've been accused of lying about where I stayed and more. In one instance, they went through my bags, found a paper - which I said was a receipt for a hostel I stayed at in Seattle a few days earlier. In Canada, I had stayed with a friend. They took that as I was lying and stayed somewhere else in Canada... they are not friendly in the least and really have no reason to treat people so poorly other than a power trip for themselves. Never did get a "Welcome to the US"... unless being grilled like a criminal suspect is now the way we as a country welcome people.

[seicer]

Ditto. I've always been warmly welcomed to Canada, but rudely treated by U.S. officials. Every. Single. Time. (Over 40 times in the past two years alone.)

[Pete from Boston]

Ditto. I've always been warmly welcomed to Canada, but rudely treated by U.S. officials. Every. Single. Time. (Over 40 times in the past two years alone.)

I've had mostly ok experiences with US customs, but I've seen really poor treatment by them.  The worst was a bus trip through Highgate Springs where the agent angrily told the busload of passengers to prepare to have him take his bad day out on them.  "Welcome to the United States, and fuck you."

[1995hoo]

Ditto. I've always been warmly welcomed to Canada, but rudely treated by U.S. officials. Every. Single. Time. (Over 40 times in the past two years alone.)

I don't think I've ever encountered a rude US customs employee. I wouldn't say most of them are particularly friendly, but I've never found them rude. I remember the very first time I went to Canada, a day trip to Campobello Island during a vacation to Maine with my parents and brother when I was maybe eight years old, I asked my mom why the customs agent in Lubec was being so mean to my father. She said he wasn't being mean, just being "cold and official."

They certainly don't go out of their way to be helpful. I almost left my camera at passport control at JFK after flying in from London on the aircraft seen in my avatar (so I really did not want to lose those pictures). The immigration agent didn't say anything and kind of smirked when I came running back over and grabbed it.

On the other hand, on our most recent trip over the Thousand Islands Bridge southbound a few years back, the customs asked what my personalized license plate means and, after I told him, he was more interested in talking about Concorde than about our trip to Canada.

[vdeane]

I got a hard time simply for not having anything to declare.  I've also gotten asked who owned my car a couple times (and it's worth noting that I have never actually owned a vehicle I crossed the border with; my last car was still in my Mom's name at the time of those crossings, and my current car is leased because I couldn't afford to buy it outright (the previous car had over $2000 in needed repairs to get it in a state where it would be safe/reliable enough to drive out of town)).  My last trip they even grilled me on my employment history for some reason.

The above is all from US customs.  Canadian customs once sent me to secondary for an unknown reason (probably inexperience with customs combined with driving all the way to Montreal from Potsdam via the Ogdensburg-Prescott Bridge (not the most direct route) simply to meet up with someone from here for the first time for a few hours and nothing else) but otherwise has been pretty easy.  One time they did ask me about college, but that made sense since I was coming from Potsdam while my enhanced driver's license had a Rochester address (they also asked if I had any electronics, but I was a computer science major so at least it wasn't totally random).  Last time it was almost like having Nexus because they only asked a couple questions which didn't even include the usual "where are you from" and "where are you going".

Both sides have acted professionally in all of my dealings with them (the privilege resulting from being a cute young woman, perhaps?).

[agentsteel53]

On the other hand, on our most recent trip over the Thousand Islands Bridge southbound a few years back, the customs asked what my personalized license plate means and, after I told him, he was more interested in talking about Concorde than about our trip to Canada.

Thousand Islands was the last time I have ever come back from Canada and had a friendly official.  since I have a green card, she was looking at that, and asked me how long I had been in the US.  I honestly answered "about 20 seconds?  I don't remember how far back the border is." - and she actually burst out laughing, asked me for a brief clarification ("oh, you mean 1986.") - then promptly gave me my documents back, and sent me on my way.

this was in 2006; approximately 12-15 Canada to US crossings ago.

on the Alcan in 2010, my friend and I got one that gave us the nine yards, but actually explained why he felt the need to do so.  "usually it's older people going off their retirement savings that make this kind of trip that you're doing.  and they do it in the summer, not the winter.  and they don't enter Canada from Washington less than 48 hours before.  so I have to ask you a more thorough set of questions."  he rambled on a bit more, saying "I wish I could drive the Alcan, but I just don't have the money".  apparently, even a winter-hazard outpost doesn't pay all that well.  I told him he should save up and do it.

[Pete from Boston]

I never joke with them, instead just maintaining a pleasant yet serious demeanor.  Probably out of fear of another "having a bad day" incident.  Best poker face at all times. 

And learn to shut up!  I was asked once if I'd ever been before a judge.  Telling them that I was a witness once was not a useful answer in light of their clear desire to know if I'd been in trouble with the law, so I let it go.  When asked "Are you bringing anything back you acquired in Canada," I don't list the plastic water bottles I'm planning to recycle. 

The friendliest US border guard I've met was in Calais, Maine.  He was a young, chill guy whi told us why he was asking what he was asking, and let us know he just didn't want us to get in any trouble.  I appreciated that. 

[agentsteel53]

I never joke with them, instead just maintaining a pleasant yet serious demeanor.

I was seriously thinking that '20 seconds' was the right answer ... due to nerves, border crossings never get me at my most intelligent. 

When asked "Are you bringing anything back you acquired in Canada," I don't list the plastic water bottles I'm planning to recycle. 

I've been known to declare tanks of gasoline and candy bars.

[sdmichael]

I got a hard time simply for not having anything to declare.  I've also gotten asked who owned my car a couple times (and it's worth noting that I have never actually owned a vehicle I crossed the border with; my last car was still in my Mom's name at the time of those crossings, and my current car is leased because I couldn't afford to buy it outright (the previous car had over $2000 in needed repairs to get it in a state where it would be safe/reliable enough to drive out of town)).  My last trip they even grilled me on my employment history for some reason.

On that trip back from Canada where they grilled me about where I had stayed... they even asked me if I owned a car! I was traveling by train and I haven't owned a car since August 2011 (trip was in November 2011). Rude to be sure. WTF sort of a question is "Do you own a car?" Do I have to own one to reenter my own country by train?

[agentsteel53]

On that trip back from Canada where they grilled me about where I had stayed... they even asked me if I owned a car! I was traveling by train and I haven't owned a car since August 2011 (trip was in November 2011). Rude to be sure. WTF sort of a question is "Do you own a car?" Do I have to own one to reenter my own country by train?

not owning a car is un-American.  stay in Canada, you weird hippie!

[1995hoo]

I think some of the questions are just to see how you react, whether they trip you up and whether you seem to be inventing answers.

[cl94]

I think some of the questions are just to see how you react, whether they trip you up and whether you seem to be inventing answers.

They also compare answers from when you entered the country. Tell them the same thing going there and back and you won't raise any red flags. Change your story and they'll give you hell.

[agentsteel53]

I think some of the questions are just to see how you react, whether they trip you up and whether you seem to be inventing answers.

I'm terrible at inventing answers, and sometimes even stumble when coming up with a correct but non-pedantic one - so I'll just respond with the literal truth.  "20 seconds" came out much more smoothly than "um, err... since June 3, 1986."

[agentsteel53]

They also compare answers from when you entered the country. Tell them the same thing going there and back and you won't raise any red flags. Change your story and they'll give you hell.

the US and Canada very rarely give exit interviews.  I recall only three in the US that I've ever had: it was going into Mexico each time.  Columbus, NM, Naco, AZ, and Sasabe, AZ.

no traffic coming into the US, so the US officers stopped me and asked me a few questions, as they had nothing else to do.

[cl94]

They also compare answers from when you entered the country. Tell them the same thing going there and back and you won't raise any red flags. Change your story and they'll give you hell.

the US and Canada very rarely give exit interviews.  I recall only three in the US that I've ever had: it was going into Mexico each time.  Columbus, NM, Naco, AZ, and Sasabe, AZ.

no traffic coming into the US, so the US officers stopped me and asked me a few questions, as they had nothing else to do.

Computer systems are linked. Guy in Canada types in what you say and the US guy sees it when you come back.

[vdeane]

Everyone who crosses the US/Canadian border has an exit interview - it just happens to be conducted by the other country.  Didn't know they essentially shared transcripts though.  How do they type that fast?

I'm also not very good with the tendency of customs agents to phrase questions in odd ways.  I would NEVER think that "have you ever appeared before a judge" meant "have you ever been in trouble with the law" for example.  And I tend to have a hard time interacting with people when I'm nervous, which I always am with customs.  Authority that has power over me makes me nervous even in the best of circumstances (I'm VERY fiercely independent, plus I have an anxious temperament to begin with, and I don't trust any authority to have my best interests at heart), and customs agents have a VERY broad set of authority to make your day very bad if they feel like it.  My heart tends to start beating very fast when I'm in line and it's always a HUGE relief when they finally let me go.

[Pete from Boston]

1995hoo put it best when he said these questions seem to be largely to see how you react.  In this way, it is like most personal interaction–people judge at least as much how you say things as they do what you say.  Smiling and looking them in the eye is far easier in the long run than going over to some building to be grilled further or having the car searched for basically acting nervous, neither of which is particularly uncommon.  It is a very practical skill to nurture.  Remember, nothing to hide means nothing to be afraid of, and moreover you're a citizen and their job is to protect you, not to "allow" you into the country you're part owner of.

[agentsteel53]

Everyone who crosses the US/Canadian border has an exit interview - it just happens to be conducted by the other country.  Didn't know they essentially shared transcripts though.

I should've figured that.

How do they type that fast?

they don't need to.  they just need to get the entry info typed in by the time you are done visiting the country.  if you're in the country a week, then the border guards have one week to type up the report.

[agentsteel53]

nothing to hide means nothing to be afraid of

this statement has the severe assumption that all law enforcement has your best interests in mind at all times.  ideally this would be the case, but it is far from true in reality.

[GaryV]

How do they type that fast?

they don't need to.  they just need to get the entry info typed in by the time you are done visiting the country.  if you're in the country a week, then the border guards have one week to type up the report.

And they can remember verbatim what you said for longer than it takes for the next car to pull up to the booth?

[GaryV]

I've had a couple of interesting encounters with border crossings in both directions.  In general Canadian officials have been more friendly than US.

Once my father in law nearly got us pulled over coming back into the US for replying "Nothing but memories" when asked what we were bringing back with us. 

The most interesting was when we decided spur of the moment to cross to Sarnia.  The guard wanted our kids' birth certificates.  He said he was protecting us, that we'd appreciate it if someone was trying to steal our kids.  Then my wife remembered she happened to still have my daughter's birth cert in her purse from registering my daughter at school.  He looked at it, and wanted to know which kid it was for.  Err, the girl, who looks to be much closer to 5 years old than 2?

Only later did I think of a great comeback.  Just try to separate our boys from us, and they'd have screamed bloody murder!

[Pete from Boston]

nothing to hide means nothing to be afraid of

this statement has the severe assumption that all law enforcement has your best interests in mind at all times.  ideally this would be the case, but it is far from true in reality.

It doesn't assume that.  It means that if you project the idea that you have something to hide or something to be afraid of, chances are the person on the other end is going to believe you.  You may not ultimately have control over whether they do or they don't, but it certainly isn't in your interest to help them there, whether with law enforcement or anyone else.