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Toll tunnel under east Atlanta a top DOT proposal

Started by airforceguy, December 30, 2009, 02:27:14 PM

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airforceguy

Toll tunnel under east Atlanta a top DOT proposal

By Ariel Hart
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The toll road tunnel proposal is for real. A controversial concept to link Ga. 400 to I-675 by digging under east Atlanta has for a couple of years found its way onto some policymakers' wish lists.  But this month it found itself someplace better:  Among the state Department of Transportation's top toll projects pitched to private investors and road-building companies.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/toll-tunnel-under-east-232437.html?cxntlid=daylf_artr



allniter89

Oh HELL NO!!! :pan: :pan: It would be a bigger boondoggle than the Big Dig of Boston! The politicians and contractors around Atlanta are waaay to crooked to allow this. I foresee tunnel flooding in daily Atlanta thunderstorms, tiles falling off the walls and ceiling of tunnel., large sinkholes above the tunnel, fiery wrecks in the tunnel, maybe even parts of the tunnel collasping  :no:. Thats a pretty long distance from 400 to 675, how far is that Bryant and what do u think of this idea.
BUY AMERICAN MADE.
SPEED SAFELY.

Chris

They should've extended I-675 when they had a chance. Now the area is build up, and getting a ROW would be prohibitively expensive to build a freeway at the surface. Apparently, they didn't learn from this, since a northern/eastern freeway bypass would be a good idea too, suburban developments are already 20 miles outside the Perimeter.

Constructing a freeway below ground level here would require a 10 mile-long tunnel.

By the way, this situation reminds me of I-710 under Pasadena and Alhambra, CA.

Bryant5493

It's roughly sixteen miles or so between the terminus of I-675 North and Georgia 400 South.

Personally, I don't mind the tunnel... if it's done well. There needs to another limited-access route out of town, to service the southeastern suburbs. I-75 is bumper-to-bumper from Stockbridge, which is at the southern end of I-675, to around Forest Parkway/S.R. 331 East & I-285, where traffic thins out a bit, 'til hitting the I-85 North merge.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

Bryant5493

#4
Quote from: Chris on December 30, 2009, 03:03:02 PM
They should've extended I-675 when they had a chance. Now the area is build up, and getting a ROW would be prohibitively expensive to build a freeway at the surface. Apparently, they didn't learn from this, since a northern/eastern freeway bypass would be a good idea too, suburban developments are already 20 miles outside the Perimeter.

Not only is above-ground R.O.W. an issue -- yhe the persons living in East Atlanta, where President Jimmy Carter built his museum, stopped I-420 and I-475 (the original number for the cancelled 400/675 connection; not the Macon bypass) from being built, and they said they'd do the same to any type of freeway that would built in their neighborhoods today: above or below-ground.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

Truvelo

Perhaps they do a similar thing as US-71 in Kansas City where it's built as a surface street but with space for future grade separation so it will become a freeway by stealth :colorful:
Speed limits limit life

Bryant5493

#6
^^ Those residents wouldn't go for that. You have a lot of trees over in that area, along with Freedom Park, where there's a lot of jogging, bike riding and whatnot.

EDIT: South of East Atlanta, there isn't as much opposition (vocal opposition). The freeway could be built above ground, because that area (around U.S. 23/S.R. 42) is mostly an industrial area.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

Chris

Since it is a tunnel proposal, I take it there won't be any exits along the new alignment.

So I wonder how much traffic this will actually siphon off of the Downtown Connector and I-285. I have a feeling it won't be enough to justify a very expensive tunnel, even if it is tolled. Since traffic volumes on the Downtown Connector dropped phenomenally in recent years, wouldn't it be better to widen I-285 instead?

Bryant5493

Quote from: Chris on December 30, 2009, 03:32:43 PM
Since it is a tunnel proposal, I take it there won't be any exits along the new alignment.

So I wonder how much traffic this will actually siphon off of the Downtown Connector and I-285. I have a feeling it won't be enough to justify a very expensive tunnel, even if it is tolled. Since traffic volumes on the Downtown Connector dropped phenomenally in recent years, wouldn't it be better to widen I-285 instead?

I think, if the tunnel were built, it should be sans any exits, to cut down on potential growth. Have it been an express route between 400 and 675. 285 was supposed to be "bypass," but look what happened with that.

That's a good idea to widen 285, but every section is pretty much built-up -- there really isn't too much room to expand, unless they did an upper/lower deck set-up.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).

SSF

Quote from: Chris on December 30, 2009, 03:32:43 PM
Since it is a tunnel proposal, I take it there won't be any exits along the new alignment.

So I wonder how much traffic this will actually siphon off of the Downtown Connector and I-285. I have a feeling it won't be enough to justify a very expensive tunnel, even if it is tolled. Since traffic volumes on the Downtown Connector dropped phenomenally in recent years, wouldn't it be better to widen I-285 instead?

the tunnel would siphon off the snowbirds coming from Canada along 85 who need to avoid the connector and the other traffic heading south to Florida/Alabama/Gulf Coast.  traffic on the connector might have dropped according to the counter data, but it's still not a picnic to be on if you dont need to be on it.  widening 285 should be done anyways, independent of any future tunnel.  

allniter-there would only be a few companies capable of building this thing in Atlanta: Snell(maybe), CW Mathews(maybe), Archer Western, and Kiewit are the traditional ones.  I think it would probably take a combination of companies due to the massive project size and specialization required with tunnel building that no Georgia contractor has.

mgk920

Quote from: Bryant5493 on December 30, 2009, 03:08:38 PM
Quote from: Chris on December 30, 2009, 03:03:02 PM
They should've extended I-675 when they had a chance. Now the area is build up, and getting a ROW would be prohibitively expensive to build a freeway at the surface. Apparently, they didn't learn from this, since a northern/eastern freeway bypass would be a good idea too, suburban developments are already 20 miles outside the Perimeter.

Not only is above-ground R.O.W. an issue -- yhe the persons living in East Atlanta, where President Jimmy Carter built his museum, stopped I-420 and I-475 (the original number for the cancelled 400/675 connection; not the Macon bypass) from being built, and they said they'd do the same to any type of freeway that would built in their neighborhoods today: above or below-ground.


Be well,

Bryant
The Carter museum was built ON the ROW that was intended for the 420/475 interchange (check Google-earth air images to see it).  One model for such a tunnel might be that fairly new one in Stockholm.

Mike

Chris


Revive 755

Quote from: mgk920The Carter museum was built ON the ROW that was intended for the 420/475 interchange (check Google-earth air images to see it).

I think you meant the I-485/475 interchange?  Or was that to be the 475/485/675 interchange?
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=33.766947,-84.357018&spn=0.012397,0.027466&t=k&z=16

An Atlanta freeway plan map without designations for reference (middle left of page 2/11):
http://blog.inmanpark.org/wp-content/uploads/613/2009/09/i-485-mlpa-news.pdf

architect77

the best solution is to double-deck  the 75/85 downtown connector, or add an elevated viaduct.

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: Chris on December 31, 2009, 04:12:51 PM
^^

Södra Länken (southern link)

Pretty psychedelic


Looks like they like the psychedelism ;)  Sydney, Australia also got a similar tunnel known as Cross City Tunnel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_City_Tunnel

I begin to dream of a "LOMDIG" (Lower-Manhattan Dig) now....

SSF

Quote from: architect77 on August 14, 2010, 03:32:29 PM
the best solution is to double-deck  the 75/85 downtown connector, or add an elevated viaduct.

double decking would not be a cheap option.  there really is no good option when it comes to alleviating traffic problems on the connector aside from having 4 million people move. 

golden eagle

How much will this thing cost? I didn't see a price tag in the article unless I overlooked it.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: golden eagle on August 15, 2010, 02:40:06 PM
How much will this thing cost? I didn't see a price tag in the article unless I overlooked it.

Safe to say odds are more than Boston's Big Dig.

architect77



double decking would not be a cheap option.  there really is no good option when it comes to alleviating traffic problems on the connector aside from having 4 million people move. 
[/quote]
Well, something has to be done eventually. I would think already having the right of way would be of some savings. And while double-decking 75/85 would be expensive, at least it's a short distance.

Another option might be to separate downtown exits and associated traffic onto a viaduct so that thru traffic could zoom through downtown without any obstacles.

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: architect77 on August 19, 2010, 01:57:15 PM

Another option might be to separate downtown exits and associated traffic onto a viaduct so that thru traffic could zoom through downtown without any obstacles.

You might be on to something, I wondered why they didn't built the I-75/85 multiplex as a C-D system similar to the Dan Ryan Expwy in Chicago and Hwy-401 in Metro Toronto? Or building it with service roads/feeders roads like numerous Texas freeways?

agentsteel53

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 19, 2010, 04:34:36 PM
Quote from: architect77 on August 19, 2010, 01:57:15 PM
... thru traffic could zoom through downtown without any obstacles.

... the Dan Ryan Expwy in Chicago ...

no.  these two concepts do not match.
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TheStranger

Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 19, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on August 19, 2010, 04:34:36 PM
Quote from: architect77 on August 19, 2010, 01:57:15 PM
... thru traffic could zoom through downtown without any obstacles.

... the Dan Ryan Expwy in Chicago ...

no.  these two concepts do not match.

For that matter, would thru-traffic be using 90/94 or would they go around town on the Tri-State Tollway?
Chris Sampang

Bryant5493

A local-thru traffic scenario for the Downtown Connector would be interesting to see.


Be well,

Bryant
Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

I just signed up on photobucket -- here's my page (http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/Bryant5493).



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