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WWE sucks

Started by bugo, September 14, 2012, 09:24:33 PM

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bugo

Does anybody think that professional wrestling was better 15-20 years ago than it is now?  I used to love wrestling when I was a kid.  I liked the WWF, but my favorite federation was always WCW.  I also watched World Class, USWA, AWA, Mid South, and other minor feds.  I quit watching it in 2000, and since then I've watched it a few times, and it's simply terrible.  The wrestlers - I mean "sports entertainers" are boring and interchangeable.  The gimmicks are stupid and the angles are lame and boring.  And there's Vince's penchant for trying to piss the fans off by showing them something they don't want to see (Mae Young, Big Dick Johnson.)  Back in the day, I watched guys like Sting, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Junkyard Dog, Randy Savage, Dusty Rhodes, Big Van Vader, Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, and other legends.  The only two wrestlers of the last decade would have a place on that list: Edge and CM Punk, and Edge is retired now.  Wrestling is truly in a sorry state.


DAL764

Wrestling only sucks if only watch the WWE. Want better wrestling, watch ROH (preferrably from 2004-2007), any current CHIKARA shows, on most occasions TNA, and these days especially PWG. Of course, it is always worth it to check out Japanese wrestling as well, be it for puro and high flying (Dragon Gate, NOAH), or absolute comedy (DDT).

Alex

Most certainly wrestling was better during the 1995-1999 time frame. I refer to it as the second glory year period of wrestling, the first being the mid to late 80s with the rise and fall of NWA, the overall popularity of WWF and Hulk Hogan, and the brief national stage that WCCW and AWA received with their ESPN television broadcasts. Throw in one of my favorites, UWF too, as they had a syndicated tv show.

In 1995, Bischoff came up with Monday Night Nitro that usurped the ratings from WWF's Raw for an almost two year period. The back and forth had me, among many of my friends, flipping back and forth, or later taping one and watching it the following day (whichever was the weaker show). Nitro even got to a three-hour time period it was so popular.

When ECW was brought to the forefront with their show on TNN, that was the peak, and things started to collapse for both it and WCW. WCW's problem was bad bookings and inflated salaries.

It was a sad day when McMahon bought out WCW, killing a legacy going back to the NWA days. This and the eventual trend to move WWF/E from the Attitude Era to PG-based programming, and the constant dual marketing with WWE Studios and marketing wrestlers as actors, has diminished the quality of mainstream wrestler, er Sports Entertainer to what it is today.

In 2004 I discovered NWA-TNA and watched several of their weekly $10 ppv's with a friend. I was quite impressed with what they had, and they put on a good uncensored show with many matches and good promos. The switch to regular TV degraded the show quite a bit, as it corresponded with Bischoff and Hogan taking over. They brought you their typical booking style, which was later exacerbated by Vince Russo during the early days of the Impact Wrestling rebranding of TNA.

These days Bruce Prichard, aka Brother Love, is the head booker, and while I have read a lot of flack he has gotten from wrestlers that have worked with him in the past, the most recent programing of Impact Wrestling has improved, though they still have a way to go.

Regarding Ring of Honor (ROH), they only recently started broadcasting matches with their weekly show on Sinclair Broadcasting based channels. One of our local affiliates is a Sinclair station and once I saw a promo for the show, I started watching and have been overall impressed with the ringwork and some of the wrestler promos.

When CM Punk did his renowned promo last summer on Raw and mentioned ROH, I had never seen it. I see that he, Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, and even AJ Styles are alumni, and have watched Kenny King recently jump from ROH to Impact. Old ECW stars Steve Corino and Rhino are in it as well. Am hoping that they get more attention as they are the closest to old school wrestling and the original ECW that is available to long time fans like myself. My brother and I started watching wrestling in the early 80s, with my first memory being our grandfather having it on when the Missing Link was in the ring, and flipping it because "we were too young to watch it".

hbelkins

Quote from: bugo on September 14, 2012, 09:24:33 PM
Does anybody think that professional wrestling was better 15-20 years ago than it is now?  I used to love wrestling when I was a kid.  I liked the WWF, but my favorite federation was always WCW.  I also watched World Class, USWA, AWA, Mid South, and other minor feds.  I quit watching it in 2000, and since then I've watched it a few times, and it's simply terrible.  The wrestlers - I mean "sports entertainers" are boring and interchangeable.  The gimmicks are stupid and the angles are lame and boring.  And there's Vince's penchant for trying to piss the fans off by showing them something they don't want to see (Mae Young, Big Dick Johnson.)  Back in the day, I watched guys like Sting, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Junkyard Dog, Randy Savage, Dusty Rhodes, Big Van Vader, Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, and other legends.  The only two wrestlers of the last decade would have a place on that list: Edge and CM Punk, and Edge is retired now.  Wrestling is truly in a sorry state.

I guess it was Mid-South that I watched on Saturday late mornings-early afternoons on one of the Lexington TV stations when I was in my early 20s. One of the biggest rivalries was Jerry Lawler and Joe LeDuc. I think WCW was something of the big-time extension of that. I remember one of the announcers/commentators ("Lance" something) later showing up on WCW. I always preferred WCW to WWF, and for awhile "Nitro" was must-see TV in our house. We never got into WWF or "Raw."


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Duke87

The thing about professional wrestling is that it has a lot of fad factor to it and so its popularity will vary from one generation to the next. Currently it is in a down cycle.

Though, I don't see it every being as popular as it once was simply because TV is not as prominent a source of entertainment for young people as it used to be. Younger generations now are more concerned with the internet and their gadgets.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

bugo

I think once Vince dies and Levesque takes control of the company that it will continue declining.  Vince comes up with a lot of stupid angles and characters, but he produces something that (some) wrestling fans want to see.  HHH doesn't have the same knack that Vince has. 

I read a wrestling newsgroup and everyone on there thinks current WWE is terrible outside of CM Punk and a few others.  So it's not just me.

ctsignguy

Quote from: hbelkins on September 16, 2012, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 14, 2012, 09:24:33 PM
Does anybody think that professional wrestling was better 15-20 years ago than it is now?  I used to love wrestling when I was a kid.  I liked the WWF, but my favorite federation was always WCW.  I also watched World Class, USWA, AWA, Mid South, and other minor feds.  I quit watching it in 2000, and since then I've watched it a few times, and it's simply terrible.  The wrestlers - I mean "sports entertainers" are boring and interchangeable.  The gimmicks are stupid and the angles are lame and boring.  And there's Vince's penchant for trying to piss the fans off by showing them something they don't want to see (Mae Young, Big Dick Johnson.)  Back in the day, I watched guys like Sting, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Junkyard Dog, Randy Savage, Dusty Rhodes, Big Van Vader, Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, and other legends.  The only two wrestlers of the last decade would have a place on that list: Edge and CM Punk, and Edge is retired now.  Wrestling is truly in a sorry state.

I guess it was Mid-South that I watched on Saturday late mornings-early afternoons on one of the Lexington TV stations when I was in my early 20s. One of the biggest rivalries was Jerry Lawler and Joe LeDuc. I think WCW was something of the big-time extension of that. I remember one of the announcers/commentators ("Lance" something) later showing up on WCW. I always preferred WCW to WWF, and for awhile "Nitro" was must-see TV in our house. We never got into WWF or "Raw."

I think you were thinking of Lance Russell, who did do some commentating on 'NWA World Wide Wrestling' and 'NWA/WCW Pro Wrestling' shows in 1989-91.....

I preferred the NWA 'wrasslin' style back in the day over the cartoonish showings of the WWF......and considered Ric Flair the REAL World Champion, and Hulk Hogan was a pathetic excuse who couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper bag (Couldnt tell a wristlock from a wristwatch, but then most of the current guys can't either....)

I preferred NWA and WCW until they committed the fatal mistake of signing Hulk in '94 then they fell into the abyss of 'sports entertainment'.....

Closest now to the old NWA style is ROH  (Helps that Jim Cornette is running the show, where the emphasis is on the ring action, and not stupid back-stage skits...)
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/ctsignguy/<br /><br />Maintaining an interest in Fine Highway Signs since 1958....

ctsignguy

Quote from: bugo on September 17, 2012, 11:10:55 PM
I think once Vince dies and Levesque takes control of the company that it will continue declining.  Vince comes up with a lot of stupid angles and characters, but he produces something that (some) wrestling fans want to see.  HHH doesn't have the same knack that Vince has. 

I read a wrestling newsgroup and everyone on there thinks current WWE is terrible outside of CM Punk and a few others.  So it's not just me.

The best wrestling period i saw was the NWA in 1989 where they had a committee of bookers (JIm Ross, Jim Cornette, Kevin Sullivan, Ric Flair, and a couple of others....)....some terrific storylines and great action to make the stories even better.....then they brought back Ole Anderson to run the bookings and things fell apart in early 1990.....

The only guys worth even considering watching in the Worthless Wrestling Environment is Punk and Paul Heyman (Paul E Dangerously to us old-timers)....Michale Cole will NEVER replace Bobby Heenan as a heel announcer, and it seems everyone else knows only kicks and punches....nor how to tell a story in the ring anymore...and feuds used to build over a 6-month to a year in time frame until one could declare victory over the other.....nobody has that patience anymore for the payout that satisfies the fans....
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/ctsignguy/<br /><br />Maintaining an interest in Fine Highway Signs since 1958....

cpzilliacus

Anyone remember "Mr. Wonderful," Paul Orndorff?

Or Bruno Sammartino?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

bugo

Quote from: ctsignguy on September 18, 2012, 08:24:35 AM
I preferred NWA and WCW until they committed the fatal mistake of signing Hulk in '94 then they fell into the abyss of 'sports entertainment'.....

Actually signing Hogan was a home run, because of his later heel turn and induction into the nWo.  Hogan's heel turn was big money.  There were many mistakes that led to WCW's demise, but hiring Hogan wasn't one of them.  I went to a Nitro in 1996, and the nWo were OVER, including Hogan.  The fans loved them, even though they threw stuff at them in the ring at the end of the show (I got popped in the shoulder by a Coke.)  If they had somehow been able to keep the momentum they had in the mid-'90s, they might still be around.  Hiring Russo and Ferrera were bad decisions. and giving Bischoff too much power helped run things into the ground.  But I don't blame Hogan at all.

bugo

Quote from: ctsignguy on September 18, 2012, 08:31:58 AM
The best wrestling period i saw was the NWA in 1989 where they had a committee of bookers (JIm Ross, Jim Cornette, Kevin Sullivan, Ric Flair, and a couple of others....)....some terrific storylines and great action to make the stories even better.....then they brought back Ole Anderson to run the bookings and things fell apart in early 1990.....

Those were the days, weren't they?  Wasn't the Sting-Flair time limit draw on Clash Of The Champions around 1989?  The Flair-Ricky Steamboat feud was epic as well.

Quote
The only guys worth even considering watching in the Worthless Wrestling Environment is Punk and Paul Heyman (Paul E Dangerously to us old-timers)....Michale Cole will NEVER replace Bobby Heenan as a heel announcer, and it seems everyone else knows only kicks and punches....nor how to tell a story in the ring anymore...and feuds used to build over a 6-month to a year in time frame until one could declare victory over the other.....nobody has that patience anymore for the payout that satisfies the fans....

NOBODY will replace Bobby Heenan and Gorilla Monsoon.  They were funny, and even non-wrestling fans appreciated their humor.

The most underrated wrestler of all time must be Arn Anderson.  A great wrestler, terrific on the mic, and funny.  His only handicap is that he didn't have the typical "look" even though his no-nonsense look matched his personality.  I wish WCW had given him at least a short world title reign.  I guess he was more of a character actor than a leading man, but he was a damn good one.

bugo

Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 18, 2012, 08:38:04 AM
Anyone remember "Mr. Wonderful," Paul Orndorff?

Of course.  I still remember when he heeled out against Hogan back in the late '80s.  He was a very good wrestler and not bad on the mic.  Here's a toast to Mr. Wonderful.

nyratk1

Quote from: bugo on September 17, 2012, 11:10:55 PM
I think once Vince dies and Levesque takes control of the company that it will continue declining.  Vince comes up with a lot of stupid angles and characters, but he produces something that (some) wrestling fans want to see.  HHH doesn't have the same knack that Vince has. 

I read a wrestling newsgroup and everyone on there thinks current WWE is terrible outside of CM Punk and a few others.  So it's not just me.

I think it might end up being a bit better. When McMahon goes, so will Kevin Dunn and a few other hangers on. Triple H has a decent eye for talent, isn't absolutely insane like Vince (Vince's fingerprints were all over 1995 WWF with cartoon characters and stale programming) and won't go into so many ego/vanity projects that drag the company down (WBF, XFL, Linda for Senate -> PG shift, WWE Films, WWE NY/The World, WWE Network). Steph may have the ego but she won't have the long lasting power.

The WWE definitely has the talent to do well, it's just the writers/producers and Vince are so far up their own butts, they're not willing to cater to the fans' changing interests and just want to show their vision and theirs only.

The wrestling business is the Special Olympics and Vince McMahon is a perennial gold medalist.

ctsignguy

Quote from: nyratk1 on September 18, 2012, 03:01:45 PM


I think it might end up being a bit better. When McMahon goes, so will Kevin Dunn and a few other hangers on. Triple H has a decent eye for talent, isn't absolutely insane like Vince (Vince's fingerprints were all over 1995 WWF with cartoon characters and stale programming) and won't go into so many ego/vanity projects that drag the company down (WBF, XFL, Linda for Senate -> PG shift, WWE Films, WWE NY/The World, WWE Network). Steph may have the ego but she won't have the long lasting power.

The WWE definitely has the talent to do well, it's just the writers/producers and Vince are so far up their own butts, they're not willing to cater to the fans' changing interests and just want to show their vision and theirs only.


That is also true......they are currently pushing wrestlers as heels when the fans want to cheer for them, and making others faces when the fans dont like them....or they dont want to be faces.   i dont think CM works as a true heel, he would be better as a tweener....Orton wants to be a heel......Bryan could be a monster face given how he crowds respond to him....

Reminds me of one the worst booking choices made in the NWA when the Great Muta passed through in 1989....he was fresh and exciting, fun to watch with a dazzling variety of moves and it was obvious the fans WANTED to cheer for him, but the NWA kept booking him as a heel with Gary Hart until he left in early 1990...

Other thing about the WWE i cant stand.......the guys know NOTHING about cutting good promos...the last good talker they had was the Rock....

You want good talkers who didnt need a script to tell them what they were gonna say?  Ric Flair......Jim Cornette (I still crack up when i hear him refer to Ronnie Garvin as the "Barney Rubble of professional wrestling"....i remember an interview where he stated his main goal in cutting promos wasnt always to make fans mad at him...he wanted to see if he could make Big Bubba Rogers or Bobby Eaton break character and crack a smile)....Arn Anderson ("I'm not saying we are going to toot our horns, but 'toot, toot!")... .and THAT was the way you cut promos!

.....today's so-called wrestlers need to crack open and watch some classic NWA shows from the 1980s and see some REAL talkers in action...maybe learn a thing or two, but on second though, cancel that....WWE shows are so tight, the writers would freak if they gave the wrestlers any freedom to actually say something new and fun...
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/ctsignguy/<br /><br />Maintaining an interest in Fine Highway Signs since 1958....

NYYPhil777

Quote from: nyratk1 on September 18, 2012, 03:01:45 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 17, 2012, 11:10:55 PM
I think once Vince dies and Levesque takes control of the company that it will continue declining.  Vince comes up with a lot of stupid angles and characters, but he produces something that (some) wrestling fans want to see.  HHH doesn't have the same knack that Vince has. 

I read a wrestling newsgroup and everyone on there thinks current WWE is terrible outside of CM Punk and a few others.  So it's not just me.

I think it might end up being a bit better. When McMahon goes, so will Kevin Dunn and a few other hangers on. Triple H has a decent eye for talent, isn't absolutely insane like Vince (Vince's fingerprints were all over 1995 WWF with cartoon characters and stale programming) and won't go into so many ego/vanity projects that drag the company down (WBF, XFL, Linda for Senate -> PG shift, WWE Films, WWE NY/The World, WWE Network). Steph may have the ego but she won't have the long lasting power.

The WWE definitely has the talent to do well, it's just the writers/producers and Vince are so far up their own butts, they're not willing to cater to the fans' changing interests and just want to show their vision and theirs only.

The wrestling business is the Special Olympics and Vince McMahon is a perennial gold medalist.
Vince McMahon- that's also the same person behind the ill-fated Xtreme Football League, which attempted to combine wrestling with football. It sucks because it turned out to be more wrestling than football and NBC apparently hated the idea.
Once the "Million Dollar Game" (in which Los Angeles defeated San Francisco) was played, the league was ended.
Though I don't remember the name of it, McMahon also founded a short-lived hockey league, too.

I've also enjoyed watching "D-Generation X". Coincidentally, that was also the name of a bowling team I was on.
(from Blazing Saddles)
Jim: Where you headed, cowboy?
Bart: Nowhere special.
Jim: Nowhere special? I always wanted to go there.
Bart: Come on.

-NYYPhil777

bugo

Degeneration X was just a bad ripoff of the nWo.  I don't know who came up with the concept of the nWo (Bischoff, Hogan, Hall, Nash, or somebody else) but it was brilliant.  And the wrestlers playing the roles did a great acting job as well.  When Hall and Nash first appeared as the Outsiders, they almost made you believe that they were not a part of WCW and were dangerous thugs. 

hbelkins

Quote from: bugo on September 19, 2012, 08:25:05 PM
Degeneration X was just a bad ripoff of the nWo.  I don't know who came up with the concept of the nWo (Bischoff, Hogan, Hall, Nash, or somebody else) but it was brilliant.  And the wrestlers playing the roles did a great acting job as well.  When Hall and Nash first appeared as the Outsiders, they almost made you believe that they were not a part of WCW and were dangerous thugs.

"You know who we are .... and we're takin' over."

I remember that. Had me actually believing it was a "shoot."

Hall's in very bad shape, from what I hear. I think I saw a documentary about him that showed how down on his luck he'd gotten. Nash was a benchwarmer for the Tennessee Vols basketball team, but I don't remember him.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

bugo

I never thought it was a shoot, but it was more believable than most wrestling angles.

And yes, Hall is in bad shape.  Decades of drug abuse has ravaged his body.

texaskdog

Right on.  I watched 1986 til about 2009, just before Mania, which I went to.  They don't have the huge larger than life stars they used to, instead we get Dolph Ziggler et al, stupid storylines that have been rehashed with nothing original, no managers to talk for the bland guys or tag teams to offer something different.  Squash matches served a purpose too.  I want it to be good so badly, but it just never is.  Not even worth watching and hasn't really been "good" since 2001.  Watching my old tapes and missing the "good old days"

ctsignguy

Quote from: texaskdog on September 19, 2012, 10:36:07 PM
Right on.  I watched 1986 til about 2009, just before Mania, which I went to.  They don't have the huge larger than life stars they used to, instead we get Dolph Ziggler et al, stupid storylines that have been rehashed with nothing original, no managers to talk for the bland guys or tag teams to offer something different.  Squash matches served a purpose too.  I want it to be good so badly, but it just never is.  Not even worth watching and hasn't really been "good" since 2001.  Watching my old tapes and missing the "good old days"

They had a tag team that COULD have been different...the Prime Time Players were fun to watch (That goofy entrance dance and their catchphrase "Millions and Millions of dollars!") and AW could have been a latter-day Jim Cornette with street attitude, he was that good a talker....but he said something impolitic on RAW in Cincy (the risk of live TV), and was let go shortly afterward...and now the PTPers are just an ordinary heel tag team with nothing to set them apart from the other teams.  Too bad....wasted potential....
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/ctsignguy/<br /><br />Maintaining an interest in Fine Highway Signs since 1958....

texaskdog

They don't have good characters anymore and that's no excuse.  ECW was a blast to watch 1995-1997 and Paul Heyman did it with people who couldn't draw flies anywhere else.  It's all about good writing of what people want to see.

DX was actually a fairly effective ripoff of the nWo, far better than fake Razor & fake Diesel (Kane)

ctsignguy

I dont mind if they recycle storylines....there is only so much original stuff you can do...but at least add a twist to the angle, and allow the wrestlers to show some real personality. 

Cena has the personality of a wet dishrag....Marella is more of a clown character with that damn sock he calls a cobra, not anyone serious.....Bryan has potential but the thing with Kane is getting old already....Cody Rhodes was derailed by his 'obsession with masks' gimmick...

The only real good characters they have now are Punk in his 'rebel without a clue' persona, and Paul Heyman, but he was always a terrific character who could draw heat, as a manager or commentator...and i am having a hard time thinking of anyone else other than the Miz, whom at times is more annoying than anything else....he is another with potential, but he has got to be allowed to use it...

frankly, i think WWE needs to step away from the current creative teams and bring in people who KNOW how to plot wrestling storylines and get the wrestlers to tell them well....not Hollywood hacks with a couple of retreads in the mix...............oh, i forgot...the McMahons dont want to acknowledge they got rich on wrestling and are trying to distance themselves from it as much as they can from that reality
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/ctsignguy/<br /><br />Maintaining an interest in Fine Highway Signs since 1958....

texaskdog

I hold out hope.  Wrestling was awful in 1994 and rebounded the next few years.  But there hasn't been much memorable in the last 11 years, been a long drought.  The local indy is pretty good but they put on 5-6 hour shows on Sunday nights and I get up early for work.

NYYPhil777

Quote from: texaskdog on September 20, 2012, 10:28:51 AM
They don't have good characters anymore and that's no excuse.  ECW was a blast to watch 1995-1997 and Paul Heyman did it with people who couldn't draw flies anywhere else.  It's all about good writing of what people want to see.

DX was actually a fairly effective ripoff of the nWo, far better than fake Razor & fake Diesel (Kane)
Yes, D-Generation X was a ripoff of the nWo, but it was one of the most controversial groups in WWF/E history. And their gimmicks were crude and unforgettable.
I haven't watched wrestling since the group disbanded in 2010.
(from Blazing Saddles)
Jim: Where you headed, cowboy?
Bart: Nowhere special.
Jim: Nowhere special? I always wanted to go there.
Bart: Come on.

-NYYPhil777

texaskdog

What I miss was how you couldn't wait to see what happened next week and the shows were always full of suprises.  Now the shows are boring.



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