Interstate 5 Border Crossing Changes

Started by andy3175, June 04, 2012, 09:01:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

andy3175

The Interstate 5 port of entry has been under construction, with a proposed new crossing at El Chaparral (Virginia Avenue). The following are some articles that discuss the progress of the reconstruction and relocation of the port of entry, which ultimately is planned to result in the relocation of Interstate 5's southern terminus:

http://mexicoperspective.com/San-Ysidro-eastern-pedestrian-crossing-and-El-Chaparral.html


QuoteThe Mexican government hopes to open El Chaparral in the fall, even though the United States does not plan to have I-5 re-routed to meet up with the new port of entry until 2016. For Mexico to get vehicle traffic to El Chaparral in any major way, it likely would have to close or dramatically alter the existing pedestrian crossing to the west of I-5, because vehicle traffic would have to cross over the sidewalk pedestrians currently walk on. ... Not having I-5 rerouted until 2016 leaves Mexico with two major possibilities to get vehicle traffic to El Chaparral this year: Route traffic from the terminus of I-5 along service roads that Mexico and the United States use just south and just north of the border fence, with the option of also getting the United States to allow some traffic to get to El Chaparral from Virginia Avenue in San Ysidro. Using Virginia Avenue undoubtedly would have a major negative impact on traffic going to and from Las Americas Premium Outlets next door.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/30/opening-of-mexicos-el-chaparral-port-of-entry-pre/

QuoteMexico's plans to complete its new El Chaparral port of entry south of the San Ysidro border crossing this year is creating a growing level of pressure for U.S. officials. It comes down to timing: While Mexican officials say they are prepared to open El Chaparral by Nov. 1, the U.S. connection to that facility, which entails a $121 million project to reroute Interstate 5, hasn't even been funded. ... The GSA is studying Mexico's latest proposed solution, which involves building an interim five-lane connection from the United States to El Chaparral. A major concern is that a curve in the provisional route could slow traffic. ... The timing issue has arisen after the United States initiated a $583-million expansion of the San Ysidro border crossing, which is being carried out in three phases. The first phase has been funded at $292 million, but the remaining two have not.

http://mexicoperspective.com/GSA-official-US-may-speed-up-I-5-connection-El-Chaparral-border-crossing.html (this one has a nifty graphic)

QuoteRiesgo, southern border project director for GSA, said he did not know how Mexico would connect traffic to El Chaparral in the interim. "There will be a crossing into Mexico," he said. "It's going to be the curve one, in some fashion, with a combination of an interim connection to El Chaparral." Riesgo said U.S. Ambassador Anthony Wayne "is negotiating that with Mexico." Kleppe had said Friday (May 25) that the GSA is likely to seek to build a southbound pedestrian crossing and traffic roundabout at Virginia Avenue to El Chaparral because the proposed curve would eliminate the current southbound pedestrian border crossing just to the west of I-5. It easily could be that when El Chaparral formally opens before President Felipe Calderón leaves office in December, there will at least be a symbolic opening of Virginia Avenue at El Chaparral to allow traffic to flow from the U.S. into Mexico.

Regards,
Andy
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com


andy3175

Also here is a link to the GSA fact sheet for the changes to the US Mexico Border Crossing on I-5:

http://www.gsa.gov/graphics/regions/San_Ysidro_LPOE_Fact_Sheet_August_2011.pdf

Regards,
Andy
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

citrus

It would be nice to see a direct (freeway-ish, let's say "medium speed") connection from Calle International EB to the port of entry NB. This currently exists entering Mexico, there's a direct ramp to Calle International WB, which is a reasonably quick road towards the 1-D toll road. And although I don't live there and this is probably meaningless, a connection to the Via Rapida that exists on either side of the TJ River (this may be a good candidate for the "freeways straddling a river" topic).

The pedestrian crossing (from the San Ysidro trolley station) is already way too long. I recently made that trek (with luggage, no less!) - the overall distance was much shorter crossing back into the states. I hope this doesn't make the pedestrian crossing even longer!

rschen7754

Going the other way from 1D to I-5 is pretty nasty... going through in the mid-2000s we got substantially lost in downtown Tijuana.

vdeane

Perhaps they should build a new border crossing or make it easier for Americans to use other crossings.  Currently traffic HAS to go through this one due to Mexican vehicle import regulations.  Changing this (either by allowing people to handle vehicle import right at the border at all crossings, or by moving the frontier/interior checkpoints so it's possible to travel between crossings without a permit) would allow Americans to choose other crossings and relieve congestion.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

TheStranger

Quote from: deanej on June 09, 2012, 12:30:44 PM
Perhaps they should build a new border crossing or make it easier for Americans to use other crossings.  Currently traffic HAS to go through this one due to Mexican vehicle import regulations.  Changing this (either by allowing people to handle vehicle import right at the border at all crossings, or by moving the frontier/interior checkpoints so it's possible to travel between crossings without a permit) would allow Americans to choose other crossings and relieve congestion.

Wait...can't drivers go to Otay Mesa or Tecate if they want an alternative to San Ysidro?
Chris Sampang

vdeane

Having never been anywhere near Mexico, I don't know the exact dynamics, but I've read that you can't move between many of the border crossings without passing through a Mexican interior checkpoint, where it's illegal to travel without a temporary import permit for your vehicle.  It's also illegal to leave Mexico with a temporary import permit, and they can't be surrendered at the border either, but at special offices that aren't near all crossings.  It's a bureaucratic mess.

Alternatively, maybe they could get rid of the system altogether.  Why not require proof of US registration be with the vehicle while in Mexico, log all cars that enter when they go through customs, and have exit stations on the border where Mexico can make sure the vehicles leave.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

realjd

Quote from: deanej on June 10, 2012, 01:06:06 PM
Having never been anywhere near Mexico, I don't know the exact dynamics, but I've read that you can't move between many of the border crossings without passing through a Mexican interior checkpoint, where it's illegal to travel without a temporary import permit for your vehicle.  It's also illegal to leave Mexico with a temporary import permit, and they can't be surrendered at the border either, but at special offices that aren't near all crossings.  It's a bureaucratic mess.

Alternatively, maybe they could get rid of the system altogether.  Why not require proof of US registration be with the vehicle while in Mexico, log all cars that enter when they go through customs, and have exit stations on the border where Mexico can make sure the vehicles leave.

Last I checked, travelers to BC, BCS, and northern Sonora are exempt from vehicle import permits.

mgk920

Quote from: realjd on June 14, 2012, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: deanej on June 10, 2012, 01:06:06 PM
Having never been anywhere near Mexico, I don't know the exact dynamics, but I've read that you can't move between many of the border crossings without passing through a Mexican interior checkpoint, where it's illegal to travel without a temporary import permit for your vehicle.  It's also illegal to leave Mexico with a temporary import permit, and they can't be surrendered at the border either, but at special offices that aren't near all crossings.  It's a bureaucratic mess.

Alternatively, maybe they could get rid of the system altogether.  Why not require proof of US registration be with the vehicle while in Mexico, log all cars that enter when they go through customs, and have exit stations on the border where Mexico can make sure the vehicles leave.

Last I checked, travelers to BC, BCS, and northern Sonora are exempt from vehicle import permits.

That meshes with what I am aware of, too.  I addition to that strip of territory along the USA border, the entire Baja Peninsula is in Mexico's 'border zone'.

Mike

kphoger

Quote from: deanej on June 10, 2012, 01:06:06 PM
Alternatively, maybe they could get rid of the system altogether.  Why not require proof of US registration be with the vehicle while in Mexico, log all cars that enter when they go through customs, and have exit stations on the border where Mexico can make sure the vehicles leave.

This would require every southbound vehicle to stop for a substantial amount of time at customs–which is not currently the case.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

vdeane

Really?  I was thinking the customs officer would just key in your state and plate number into a database... theoretically, that should take all of 30 seconds.  Even entering car make/model/year/color shouldn't take long.  At least, no longer than people wait at the US border while customs makes a show of scanning your passport even if there's nothing to find.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kphoger

Quote from: deanej on June 15, 2012, 02:19:26 PM
Really?  I was thinking the customs officer would just key in your state and plate number into a database... theoretically, that should take all of 30 seconds.  Even entering car make/model/year/color shouldn't take long.  At least, no longer than people wait at the US border while customs makes a show of scanning your passport even if there's nothing to find.

The current process for driving south to the interior involves recording your VIN, licnese plate number, etc. into a database, abd issuing a window sticker and paper permit–all dependent on your having a driver's license, passport, current registration, and tourist card (all of which they keep photocopies of)–plus the payment of a deposit based on the age of your car, and a nonrefundable processing fee.

The current process for driving south within the border zone involves....just driving across the border.

The current process for driving north across the border involves....just driving across the border.  If you had to temporarily import your vehicle to drive to the interior, then you volunarily stop and cancel your permit.

Considering that most cross-border traffic does not travel beyond the border zone, then recording vehicle information for all vehicles to the level of scrutiny that Mexican procedure requires would make for a lot longer lines on both sides of the border.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

vdeane

My proposal would involve Mexico no longer recording vehicle details to that level of scrutiny.  The only reason the import permit stuff exists is to protect the Mexican auto market, and they don't need that many details to protect it.  The current system is just bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kphoger

Think about it:  Step 1 is to verify that the person driving a vehicle in is actually the owner of the vehicle.  Proving that involves paperwork.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

vdeane

So it's illegal to drive a car you don't own into the interior?  Why?  Lots of people drive cars they don't own all the time.  For example, the car I drive is technically owned by my Mom because we're too lazy to change the registration (it doesn't affect anything anyways, though I guess that's because the only Mexico I'm within 1000 miles of is the village of Mexico, NY), and I get no problems driving into Canada because of it.

Frankly, I don't understand the concept of having a border zone and interior at all.  Maybe it's because I've always lived within 100 miles of the Canadian border, but I don't see the point (frankly, I don't see the point of having border controls at all (the world was just fine without them before World War I), but that's another issue altogether).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

corco

QuoteSo it's illegal to drive a car you don't own into the interior?  Why?  Lots of people drive cars they don't own all the time.

Think about that for a second, especially in a country like Mexico that doesn't have the same law enforcement relationship with the US that Canada does. I think you can do it if you have a notarized letter from the owner of the car, but I'm certainly glad that somebody couldn't say, steal my car and then drive to Mexico through the border crossing and say "yeah, that's my cousin" or something.

J N Winkler

Quote from: deanej on June 17, 2012, 12:38:48 PMFrankly, I don't understand the concept of having a border zone and interior at all.  Maybe it's because I've always lived within 100 miles of the Canadian border, but I don't see the point (frankly, I don't see the point of having border controls at all (the world was just fine without them before World War I, but that's another issue altogether).

Having a frontier zone allows a more layered approach to be taken to border enforcement; this is part of the reason the waits going into Mexico are typically much shorter than they are going back to the USA.  It is partly cultural as well--km 30 checkpoints exist in other Latin American countries, like Peru.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

agentsteel53

Quote from: corco on June 17, 2012, 07:01:28 PMI think you can do it if you have a notarized letter from the owner of the car, but I'm certainly glad that somebody couldn't say, steal my car and then drive to Mexico through the border crossing and say "yeah, that's my cousin" or something.
you can just go to Kinkos and forge your car's registration.  especially if the car is registered somewhere like Michigan - what's the chance that a typical Mexican customs official knows exactly what a real Michigan registration looks like?
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

vdeane

With the frontier/interior zones, doesn't that mean that Mexican citizens essentially have to go through customs to stay within their own country if the want to head deeper in?  That must limit roadgeeking opportunities if you have to explain yourself to the government every time you cross into the interior.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

agentsteel53

Quote from: deanej on June 20, 2012, 10:20:04 AM
With the frontier/interior zones, doesn't that mean that Mexican citizens essentially have to go through customs to stay within their own country if the want to head deeper in?  That must limit roadgeeking opportunities if you have to explain yourself to the government every time you cross into the interior.

basically, yes, is my understanding - except you don't have to explain yourself nearly as much as they want to look in your trunk and make sure there's no drugs in there.

when I go in two weeks, I will report back with hard data.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

J N Winkler

Quote from: deanej on June 20, 2012, 10:20:04 AMWith the frontier/interior zones, doesn't that mean that Mexican citizens essentially have to go through customs to stay within their own country if the want to head deeper in?  That must limit roadgeeking opportunities if you have to explain yourself to the government every time you cross into the interior.

In my experience, which admittedly pre-dates the current hot but undeclared war against the narcotraficantes, it is not a burdensome constraint because the inspections tend to be quite perfunctory.  The douaniers at the interior frontier checkpoints are interested mainly in verifying temporary vehicle import documentation and in glancing at the contents of your trunk.

At the time I was going to Mexico, film cameras were still in wide use and many travel books advised against taking more than 20 rolls of 35-mm film, but I believe I took more than this and the amounts were never queried.  I was never even asked to take my luggage out and unpack it on tables; I think Kphoger and his fellow mission workers have been asked to do this only because gun running from the United States has become a serious problem in the context of the war against the cartels.  (We have made our own attempts to stamp out illegal export of guns to Mexico, but since we keep tripping over our own shoelaces with fiascos like Operation Fast and Furious, the Mexicans are quite properly reluctant to trust in the efficacy of our measures.)

I even took pictures of the approach signing for the internal frontier checkpoint on Mex. 16 just west of Ojinaga (which, if memory serves, begins around the 300 m mark with a white sign reading "PARE PARA INSPECCION ADUANAL A 300 m").  The detail manning the checkpoint sent an officer out in a car to check on me; they must have had hidden cameras monitoring the approaches since I don't think I was in direct line of sight of the checkpoint buildings.  When he saw that I was just taking pictures of the signs, however, he did a three-point turn and drove back to the checkpoint, and I was subjected to no special scrutiny when I finally made my way there and presented my documentation.  I think the real purpose of the check was to ensure that I had not broken down, which does happen from time to time.  (The first time I did the drive from Ojinaga to Chihuahua, I stopped for a family whose Ford Ranger pickup truck had broken down and would not re-start.  I looked under the hood and realized there was little I could do to help them since their truck had a carburetor instead of fuel injectors and it was by then almost ten years since I had last attempted repairs on a carburetor.)
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Quote from: deanej on June 20, 2012, 10:20:04 AM
With the frontier/interior zones, doesn't that mean that Mexican citizens essentially have to go through customs to stay within their own country if the want to head deeper in?  That must limit roadgeeking opportunities if you have to explain yourself to the government every time you cross into the interior.

To Mexican citizens, the stop would be no more of a hassle than any other police or military checkpoint.  I've actually never even had to exchange more than about three sentences at the interior checkpoint; the majority of traffic is just waved through.  I doubt Mexican citizens would have to 'explain themselves' any more than just saying where they're driving from and to.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

realjd

Quote from: deanej on June 20, 2012, 10:20:04 AM
With the frontier/interior zones, doesn't that mean that Mexican citizens essentially have to go through customs to stay within their own country if the want to head deeper in?  That must limit roadgeeking opportunities if you have to explain yourself to the government every time you cross into the interior.

US Citizens living in places along the Mexican border like San Diego, Yuma, and El Paso have to pass through similar inland CBP checkpoints also to head farther into the US. If you're obviously American they usually just wave you on (sometimes asking citizenship), but it's not unheard of to get your car thoroughly searched.

agentsteel53

there are a few transverse checkpoints as well on I-8 - you get examined, but you do not exit the border region.  furthermore, border patrol has been known to operate as far north as Needles, 200 miles north of Mexico.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

realjd

Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 21, 2012, 01:41:17 PM
there are a few transverse checkpoints as well on I-8 - you get examined, but you do not exit the border region.  furthermore, border patrol has been known to operate as far north as Needles, 200 miles north of Mexico.

They like to hang out at the commercial ag check stations in/out of the Florida peninsula, and I often see one watching southbound traffic for some reason on I95 just south of Georgia.

I saw a CBP cop running radar (my radar detector lit up) down in the Keys last year. Why CBP would be enforcing speeding laws is beyond me.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.