Ted Cruz to run for president, but how?

[J N Winkler]

I remember about 20 years ago, I started hearing a lot about U.S. families going to maternity wards right across the border in Canada or Mexico for their children to be born, because the U.S. health care system was so bad. I had wondered how it would affect the child's citizenship. If both parents were citizens, I guess it wouldn't be a problem, but what if both parents weren't citizens? In that case, I assume the child wouldn't be a citizen, even if they actually resided in the U.S. from the time of birth.

The US requires just one US citizen parent (meeting the residency requirements at 8 USC § 1401) for the child to be a US citizen.  Both Canada and the US permit dual nationality, so the child goes back to the US as a US/Canadian dual citizen.  Mexico does not allow dual nationality (per the Constitution of 1917), so--AIUI--birth in Mexico will give the child a claim to Mexican nationality which, under Mexican law, he can assume only if he or she relinquishes US citizenship.

Isn't this nearly the same situation that George Romney faced in 1968 (albeit with two native US-born parents vs. one)? I think the commonly held position is that he would have been eligible.

Yes, it is.  Romney was a white upper-class car company CEO and Michigan governor (for which I suspect there is also a citizenship qualification) in the consensus age, so he never had to deal with the whole birther miasma.  Barry Goldwater was another Presidential candidate, this time the actual nominee of a major party, with a less redundantly locked-down claim on natural-born US citizenship since he was born in Arizona before statehood.  His eligibility was never seriously challenged.

[Scott5114]

Just as a friendly reminder, politics is not a topic that this board is designed to discuss. Discussion on the theory and quirks of immigration and citizenship law, like this thread has mostly stuck to, is okay, but let's avoid letting the discussion turn to Mr. Cruz and his political opinions, since he can be a very polarizing character.

[Desert Man]

Thanx Scott, remember the 3 things NEVER to discuss in the public, including message boards (unless where permitted): Politics, religion and which we enjoy starts with a "s"...SPORTS (gotcha!)

Ted Cruz may qualify to run for president due to possession of dual nationality from his American-born mother if she still an US citizen in Canada. Not the first person in this controversy of nationality (George Romney, Mitt's father born in Mexico)...and sorry to remind you all: Arnold Schwarzenegger, body-builder and actor and CA governor (2003-2011) born in Austria can't run for US president, due to constitutional requirements.

[Scott5114]

Thanx Scott, remember the 3 things NEVER to discuss in the public, including message boards (unless where permitted): Politics, religion and which we enjoy starts with a "s"...SPORTS (gotcha!)

Which is why I never go into that filthy, filthy sports board.

[1995hoo]

Saw somewhere upthread that someone said that because Cruz' mother was a citizen, he'd be a citizen even if he was born outside the United States. The same would be applicable, from what I've read, if his father was a citizen and his mother was not. I know some religions base the child's status on the mother's status, but I understand that to not be the case where citizenship is concerned.

....

This is correct. The reason I cited his mother is not because the mother is the significant determinant (along the lines of how Jews contend that someone with a Jewish mother is Jewish), but rather because Cruz's father is/was Cuban and so there was no reason to mention him.

Setting aside questions of politics, it makes a lot of sense that someone with a US citizen parent should not lose eligibility for US citizenship due to the mere happenstance of having been born abroad, especially in modern times given the ease of, and frequency of, travel. I'm sure some people might argue that the reason for travel might matter–say, an ambassador's wife gives birth in a foreign hospital, so you argue the ambassador was sent there by the government and it wouldn't be fair for the government to deny the child citizenship when it otherwise would have been born in the USA. OK, if you use that argument, there should be no quibble with the John McCain situation since I believe his father was serving in the Armed Forces and he was posted in the Canal Zone. The problem with this analysis is that it opens the door to far too many sticky situations and potential discrimination–for example, should the same principle apply to the child of a member of the ambassador's staff who was not "sent" there by the government but who instead "chose" to work abroad? If not, why not? How about the child of a US citizen mother who didn't necessarily plan to go abroad but did so for emergency reasons, such as attending a parent's funeral on short notice, and then went into labor while there? Most people would argue it'd be unreasonable to demand the woman decide between missing her parent's funeral or ensuring her child is a US citizen.

I think Congress understandably isn't getting into the business of drawing these sorts of lines. I believe the Supreme Court also recognized that the mere happenstance of being born abroad to US citizen parents is not, without more, sufficient reason to deny status as a natural-born citizen.

Don't forget, the Constitution also requires that the natural-born citizen be at least 35 years old and have resided within the US for 14 years. This helps prevent the situation where, say, two US citizens living in Russia (hypothetically, Edward Snowden marries an American citizen and stays in Russia) have a kid but never return to the USA, the kid grows up abroad, and then the kid moves to the US as an adult and quickly runs for president despite never having been here. Even though the person may be a "natural-born citizen," he's ineligible to be president (or vice president) because he hasn't satisfied the residency requirement.

(Edited to make the first paragraph clearer as to what I meant.)

[PHLBOS]

Thanx Scott, remember the 3 things NEVER to discuss in the public, including message boards (unless where permitted): Politics, religion and which we enjoy starts with a "s"...SPORTS (gotcha!)

I thought the third was the Great Pumpkin (per Linus Van Pelt). 

[J N Winkler]

Setting aside questions of politics, it makes a lot of sense that someone with a US citizen parent should not lose eligibility for US citizenship due to the mere happenstance of having been born abroad, especially in modern times given the ease of, and frequency of, travel. I'm sure some people might argue that the reason for travel might matter–say, an ambassador's wife gives birth in a foreign hospital, so you argue the ambassador was sent there by the government and it wouldn't be fair for the government to deny the child citizenship when it otherwise would have been born in the USA. OK, if you use that argument, there should be no quibble with the John McCain situation since I believe his father was serving in the Armed Forces and he was posted in the Canal Zone. The problem with this analysis is that it opens the door to far too many sticky situations and potential discrimination–for example, should the same principle apply to the child of a member of the ambassador's staff who was not "sent" there by the government but who instead "chose" to work abroad? If not, why not? How about the child of a US citizen mother who didn't necessarily plan to go abroad but did so for emergency reasons, such as attending a parent's funeral on short notice, and then went into labor while there? Most people would argue it'd be unreasonable to demand the woman decide between missing her parent's funeral or ensuring her child is a US citizen.

Actually, the nationality law does provide for different treatment for certain special cases.  For example, 8 USC § 1403 says that if you are a US citizen working for the US Government in the Panama Canal Zone or the Panama Railroad Company (or one of its successors) in the Republic of Panama, then your child is also a US citizen regardless of your prior US residency.  I haven't dug into this in detail, but I suspect there are similar carve-outs for children of US diplomats who may have been born overseas and lived abroad continuously since, and thus otherwise be unable to transmit their US citizenship to their children (in which case said children, the diplomats' grandchildren, obtain US citizenship by jus solis alone if and only if they are born in the US).

I think Congress understandably isn't getting into the business of drawing these sorts of lines.

Congress does draw such lines, especially in regard to treatment for certain favored groups such as veterans, who get preferential access to health care through the VA system, TriCare for Life, etc.  Back in the 1960's there was an attempt to phase out veterans' benefits on the basis that military service should not be a required qualification for welfare-state entitlements.  That failed, with the result that the military is sometimes compared to a Scandinavian-style social democracy in terms of provision of housing, education, and health care.

[roadman]

Thanx Scott, remember the 3 things NEVER to discuss in the public, including message boards (unless where permitted): Politics, religion and which we enjoy starts with a "s"...SPORTS (gotcha!)

I thought the third was the Great Pumpkin (per Linus Van Pelt). 

^ + 1,000

[bing101]

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-23/donald-trump-goes-birther-on-canadian-born-ted-cruz. 

Here is an update Donald Trump is playing the birther card on Cruz.

[Brandon]

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-23/donald-trump-goes-birther-on-canadian-born-ted-cruz. 

Here is an update Donald Trump is playing the birther card on Cruz.

Nice to know the birthers don't discriminate. 

[1995hoo]

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-23/donald-trump-goes-birther-on-canadian-born-ted-cruz. 

Here is an update Donald Trump is playing the birther card on Cruz.

He thinks he originated the slogan "Make America Great Again"? In 1980 Ronald Reagan used the slogan "Let's Make America Great Again." Dropping the word "let's" doesn't make it original!

[US71]

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-23/donald-trump-goes-birther-on-canadian-born-ted-cruz. 

Here is an update Donald Trump is playing the birther card on Cruz.

Nice to know the birthers don't discriminate. 

[1995hoo]

Why is "white" capitalized in that graphic? It's not a proper noun.

[texaskdog]

Funny how so many candidates have this gray area now.

Hoping for a Cruz victory!

[SP Cook]

The State Department's website has detailed information on birth abroad.  Pretty much if either parent is a citizen, you are a natural born citizen, no matter where you are born.  There are forms to fill out and all of that.  Not complex.  My boss was born in Germany (military brat) but is a US citizen.  He just got his passport and used a State Department issued thing called a "Consular Report of Birth Abroad".  No issue.

Also remember that not every country considers you a citizen just because you are born there.  My afformentioned boss is not a German citizen because German law excludes people born in Germany to non-Germans from being citizens.

Also remember that you don't necessarially want to be a citizen.   The USA (alone in the world) taxes income of non-resident citizens.  Lots of countries still have drafts.  So on. I know an MD who is Syrian.  His son was born here, but Syria considers any one born to a Syrian father to be a citizen and subject to the draft.  And you CANNOT renounce that citizenship.  Thus the son is technically a wanted draft dodger and cannot travel to any Arab countries. 

It is also worth mentioning that the Supreme Court overturned the US law that disallowed dual citizenship in the 60s.  Theoretically, a person can be a citizen of maybe a dozen countries at the same time, including the USA.  In some cases whether he wants to or not.

As to the politicians mentioned:

Cruz.  Born in Canada to US citizen mother.  Natural born US citizen.  Canada has birthright citizenship so he was also a Canadian citizen (which he renounced upon entering politics).  Father was an escapee from Cuba.  Cuban communist government considers all persons born to Cuban parents to be "citizens" (to whatever effect you can give such a word in a system that denies all human rights to all persons living there), and thus considers him a Cuban citizen, something Cruz rejects.

Romney.  Born in Mexico to US citizen parents.  Natural born US citizen.  Mexico has birthright citizenship so he could have been a Mexican citizen, but Mexico does not allow dual citizenship (nor did the US in Romney's time) so he lost his claim to Mexican citizenship by claiming US citizenship.

Goldwater.  Born in Arizona Territory.  Natural born US citizen, because AZ was an incorporated territory.

McCain.  Born in the Panama Canal Zone.  Then an UNINCORPORATED leased territory.  Natural born US citizen under two laws.   First, born to two US citizen parents, and thus a natural born citizen no matter where born.  Second, a specific law stated that anybody born in the CZ was a citizen.  (The border between Panama and the CZ was open and lots of Panamanians got US citizenship by being born in the CZ, although US officials in that era were not helpful in doing the paperwork for them.)  For example, Rod Carew, the baseball player, was born in the CZ and was a citizen from birth, although his parents were not. 

Some other politicians of note:

Andrew Jackson.  Many historians believe that Jackson was actually born to his Scots-Irish immigrant parents at sea on the way to the US and thus was not really a citizen and not eligiable to be president (any similarity of this to other presidents or candidates of other eras, including the current one, is unintentional.)

Alberto Fujimori.  Ex-dictator of Peru.  Born in Peru of Japanese parents (a good number of Japanese immigrated to South America after WWII, seeing no future in Japan).  After his downfall, he moved to Japan, a place he had never even visited in his life, and was declared a citizen because Japan considers any person with even a Japanese grandparent a citizen at birth.

Swartzenegger (and former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm).  Born in Austria and Canada respectievly.  Neither can be president.

And one fictional character.  Rick from Casablanca.  The Bogart character was a citizen of no country at all.  US law at the time said that any person who fought in a foreign war (he had fought with the communist side in the Spanish civil war) automatically lost their citizenship. 

[kkt]

And one fictional character.  Rick from Casablanca.  The Bogart character was a citizen of no country at all.  US law at the time said that any person who fought in a foreign war (he had fought with the communist side in the Spanish civil war) automatically lost their citizenship. 

Really?  The entire Lincoln Brigade, about 2800 Americans, lost their citizenship?

[Brandon]

Some other politicians of note:

Andrew Jackson.  Many historians believe that Jackson was actually born to his Scots-Irish immigrant parents at sea on the way to the US and thus was not really a citizen and not eligiable to be president (any similarity of this to other presidents or candidates of other eras, including the current one, is unintentional.)

Actually, Jackson would have been eligible regardless.  He was a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution (having been born before) and was resident at least 14 years in the US.

[Pete from Boston]

And one fictional character.  Rick from Casablanca.  The Bogart character was a citizen of no country at all.  US law at the time said that any person who fought in a foreign war (he had fought with the communist side in the Spanish civil war) automatically lost their citizenship. 

Really?  The entire Lincoln Brigade, about 2800 Americans, lost their citizenship?

Is this the unexplained reason he can't go back to the States?

[bugo]

I've always been under the impression that one must have actually been born in the US to be eligible to run for president. I don't know if they changed it or what, but that is what I was taught in school.

[1995hoo]

I've always been under the impression that one must have actually been born in the US to be eligible to run for president. I don't know if they changed it or what, but that is what I was taught in school.

Nothing has ever been changed. The Constitution has said the following (Article II, Section 1) since 1787:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Your teachers might have assumed "natural born Citizen" meant "born in the USA."

[kkt]

And one fictional character.  Rick from Casablanca.  The Bogart character was a citizen of no country at all.  US law at the time said that any person who fought in a foreign war (he had fought with the communist side in the Spanish civil war) automatically lost their citizenship. 

Really?  The entire Lincoln Brigade, about 2800 Americans, lost their citizenship?

Is this the unexplained reason he can't go back to the States?

No, he absconded with the church funds, ran away with a senator's wife, and killed a man.

[US71]

Why is "white" capitalized in that graphic? It's not a proper noun.

Not my graphic: I borrowed it from someone

[Pete from Boston]

And one fictional character.  Rick from Casablanca.  The Bogart character was a citizen of no country at all.  US law at the time said that any person who fought in a foreign war (he had fought with the communist side in the Spanish civil war) automatically lost their citizenship. 

Really?  The entire Lincoln Brigade, about 2800 Americans, lost their citizenship?

Is this the unexplained reason he can't go back to the States?

No, he absconded with the church funds, ran away with a senator's wife, and killed a man.

Is that the romantic in you speaking?

[vdeane]

Everything (yes, EVERYTHING) taught in school tends to be simplified, many cases in the extreme.

[J N Winkler]

I've always been under the impression that one must have actually been born in the US to be eligible to run for president. I don't know if they changed it or what, but that is what I was taught in school.

You must have been taught that nonsense about Alexander Hamilton being ineligible to run for President, as I was.