Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[silverback1065]

go boilers, I can also say that east west travel in West Laff/Laff sucks, south st is a nightmare, teal road is garbage, veterans is hamstrung by development, and salem/union is too slow.

[ModernDayWarrior]

As it is, I haven't seen any posted here, so I'm going to share some pictures of Section 4, taken on a much better day than today.

(pics snipped out)

Great pics. Pretty road. Hard to beat a brand new Interstate!

[tdindy88]

I journeyed north on I-69 from Evansville to Bloomington earlier today and it seemed that the signage for the individual exits were more or less in tact in both directions, where I seem to remember some signs missing on previous trips due to high wind or something else. It seems that signage more or less has been improved. Also, and I apologize if this has been mentioned before but Oakland City is now featured as a control point for signs for Exit 33. I only wish we at least had some mileage signs along that stretch.

Speaking of signs, I bit the bullet and bought a one-month subscription to the Bloomington Herald-Times to see all they had to say over highway construction. Someone there brough up the lack of signs mentioning Bloomington and the newspaper asked INDOT what was going on with that, since it had been mentioned here before. The following is a response from the 1/1/2016 Herald-Times.

"According to Will Wingfield, a spokesman for the Indiana Department of Transportation, the efforts to "give Bloomington a little love"  are continuing on into 2016. He said that we can expect some destination signage – ground-mounted signs that direct traffic onto the interstate from adjoining roads – as the final touches are being put in order.

"When the original interstates were built in the '70s, they only had signs at waterways, overpasses and county lines,"  said Wingfield. "The new standard is mile markers."

Wingfield says that there are mile marker signs every half mile for that stretch of I-69, so stranded motorists can better report where they are in case of emergency. For safety reasons, decorative signs (such as the one located on Ind. 37 at the College Avenue/North Walnut Street exit) must be approved as an exception by INDOT, and are typically the result of a partnership with a local beautification organization."

And one more thing, probably more appropriate for the I-69 Ohio River Bridge, but the river was very high in Evansville when we drove on I-69 toward Downtown Evansville. Green River Road essentially went straight into the flood waters of the Ohio just south of it's exit off of I-69. I'm sure it's a foregone conclusion to people from the area, but I'm guessing the Indiana approach to the river is going to have to be all-bridge. And speaking of flooding, the White River was up, giving the appearance of a lake to the west of the interstate east of Petersburg (near the White River bridge,) an interesting sight for me.

[Pete from Boston]

And one more thing, probably more appropriate for the I-69 Ohio River Bridge, but the river was very high in Evansville when we drove on I-69 toward Downtown Evansville. Green River Road essentially went straight into the flood waters of the Ohio just south of it's exit off of I-69. I'm sure it's a foregone conclusion to people from the area, but I'm guessing the Indiana approach to the river is going to have to be all-bridge.

I crossed the 41 bridges last week, and yes, most of the area surrounding Ellis Park (though not Ellis Park itself) was submerged.  All around both sides at Owensboro, too.  The area south of 69 is all accreted sediment the river has left there as it has meandered south, as is the case inside all river bends, so the river often finds its way back through and over that land.

[SW Indiana]

Noticed yesterday while traveling back from Indy that the SB "next exit xx miles" sign near exit 87 (US 231) was covered in plastic, but it had partially blown off, revealing 7 miles for the next exit (76), which is at SR 58. I'm assuming it was covered up because the mileage is wrong, lol.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the low salt zones, which allowed me to travel a whopping 45-50mph the entire stretch from Bloomington to Crane. But to be fair, the temps yesterday were cold enough that the effectiveness of the salt was restricted. However, I traveled through after after 9pm and all four lanes were still pretty much snow/ice covered.

[GaryV]

I also thoroughly enjoyed the low salt zones, which allowed me to travel a whopping 45-50mph the entire stretch from Bloomington to Crane.

When our street was replaced a few years back, they told us they weren't going to salt it the first winter because that's when the worst damage is done to the concrete.

[tdindy88]

I wondered what this new stretch of I-69 would be like under its first snowfall. I'm guessing the karst topography and limestone in the area is the main reason for the low salt zones. I did travel I-69 from Muncie to Indy at no faster than 40 MPH one night a few years ago and that freeway's been there for years with no such zones.

[Pete from Boston]

Is there anyone here with enough expertise that can tell us why the concrete is more vulnerable in its first year?  Presumably it is cured well before then.

It would not be surprising if the lack of salt is due to groundwater issues.   Nowhere have I seen as many signs indicating sensitive water areas as I did on the new section of 69.

[EngineerTM]

I just noticed that on INDOT's I-69 Home Page for Section 6, a new "I-69 Section 6 Fact Sheet" dated 1/11/2016 has been added.  Activities 20, 21, and 22 concerning the public involvement reported on the recent public hearings done late in 2015.  The Fact Sheet officially confirms INDOT's intention to refine "the five preliminary alternatives into a smaller set of routes known as reasonable alternatives."  I had read news releases on this earlier that reported that these remaining alternatives would be reduced from anywhere from less than 5 to more than 1, with a possibility that the single preferred route would be identified.  It will be interesting to see if INDOT makes this announcement anytime soon, and just how many of the present 5 alternatives will be studied further during the remaining time in the EIS.

I believe that I read elsewhere that INDOT's schedule was to have a ROD by early 2018.  I also read that INDOT has some concerns as to how they will sign I-69 between Section 5 (scheduled to be completed in 2016) and Section 6, since the interstate traffic has been increasing and there will be an abrupt end to the interstate into SR 37 just south of Martinsville.

[Moose]

I also read that INDOT has some concerns as to how they will sign I-69 between Section 5 (scheduled to be completed in 2016) and Section 6, since the interstate traffic has been increasing and there will be an abrupt end to the interstate into SR 37 just south of Martinsville.

Maybe they could re sign IN 37 from Martinsville to Indy as Indiana Route 69. Then Martinsville to B town copied be signed I69.

Most folks are sure that the in 37 designation will be dropped anyway.

[silverback1065]

I also read that INDOT has some concerns as to how they will sign I-69 between Section 5 (scheduled to be completed in 2016) and Section 6, since the interstate traffic has been increasing and there will be an abrupt end to the interstate into SR 37 just south of Martinsville.

Maybe they could re sign IN 37 from Martinsville to Indy as Indiana Route 69. Then Martinsville to B town copied be signed I69.

Most folks are sure that the in 37 designation will be dropped anyway.

There's already a SR 69, and I doubt 37 will go anywhere. 

[tdindy88]

I'm sure they'll multiplex 37 with I-69 along Section 5. It will take some time for people to start using I-69 for the new freeway from Bloomington to Martinsville. With Sections 1 thru 4 it was easy since the roadway never existed here, but habits will be slow to die off, and from a practical standpoint it makes sense anyway since SR 37 continues north of where Section 5 ends. Sign both highways for Section 5 and perhaps add some "TO I-69" signs along SR 37 north of there.

[mukade]

I also read that INDOT has some concerns as to how they will sign I-69 between Section 5 (scheduled to be completed in 2016) and Section 6, since the interstate traffic has been increasing and there will be an abrupt end to the interstate into SR 37 just south of Martinsville.

Maybe they could re sign IN 37 from Martinsville to Indy as Indiana Route 69. Then Martinsville to B town copied be signed I69.

Most folks are sure that the in 37 designation will be dropped anyway.

I like the SR 69 idea even if its lifetime were short. Personally, i think they should remove all the state road numbers that duplicate Interstate numbers in the same way they do with US routes.  I-64 and SR 64 are especially confusing. Indiana has plenty of numbers to work with to accomplish that.

[silverback1065]

Wasn't SR 135 renumbered that because of US 35?  Why would INDOT renumber SR 135 but not 64, 65, 69, and 70 for the same reason?  Unless the renumbering happened to whatever organization handled the roads before INDOT existed. 

[tdindy88]

The policy apparently exists only for U.S. highways. Interstates and state highways can have the same number but not U.S. and state highways.

[NWI_Irish96]

The policy apparently exists only for U.S. highways. Interstates and state highways can have the same number but not U.S. and state highways.

I've never seen the rule written, but that appears to be the case.  64, 65, 69 and 70 exist in Indiana both as interstates and as state highways.  64 is the most confusing, as they closely parallel each other across most of the state and even intersect each other at IN 64's eastern terminus.

A bigger problem with IN 64 is that 164, 264 and 364 are all already in use, so you'd have to go up to 464 if you renumber it, which would seem very out of place with a road that long having a number that high.

[US 41]

Although I would not personally be for changing SR 64's number, the number 72 appears to be open and would be a reasonable choice.

[silverback1065]

if you don't care about fitting the correct number, there are no 80s or 90s numbers or anything over 75 in the 70s anymore.

[civeng]

I've never been confused by it, and really haven't heard of anyone else being confused.

Changing the number to anything else would certainly be confusing though.

[captkirk_4]

go boilers, I can also say that east west travel in West Laff/Laff sucks, south st is a nightmare, teal road is garbage, veterans is hamstrung by development, and salem/union is too slow.

The Hoosier Highway just empties into the middle of Lafayette with absolutely no easy way to keep going to the South-West direction you've been moving flawlessly along all the way from Toledo. Indiana really needs to bypass Lafayette and get that traffic on down to I-74 on a four lane divided highway.

[silverback1065]

go boilers, I can also say that east west travel in West Laff/Laff sucks, south st is a nightmare, teal road is garbage, veterans is hamstrung by development, and salem/union is too slow.

The Hoosier Highway just empties into the middle of Lafayette with absolutely no easy way to keep going to the South-West direction you've been moving flawlessly along all the way from Toledo. Indiana really needs to bypass Lafayette and get that traffic on down to I-74 on a four lane divided highway.

I don't even think INDOT has any plans to do that ever unfortunately.

[US 41]

go boilers, I can also say that east west travel in West Laff/Laff sucks, south st is a nightmare, teal road is garbage, veterans is hamstrung by development, and salem/union is too slow.

The Hoosier Highway just empties into the middle of Lafayette with absolutely no easy way to keep going to the South-West direction you've been moving flawlessly along all the way from Toledo. Indiana really needs to bypass Lafayette and get that traffic on down to I-74 on a four lane divided highway.

I don't even think INDOT has any plans to do that ever unfortunately.

I thought there were plans to eventually 4 lane US 231 from Lafayette to Crawfordsville (I-74). Before Indiana builds any more new roads we need to fix our existing roads and bridges.

Getting back on topic with I-69. Indiana's best option without making a bunch of people mad would be go to back through and add tolls to I-69 between SR 68 and SR 37. I would fully support having no toll booths along the road and just making it Pay By Mail or EZPASS. Most people aren't used to using it (I-69) yet anyways. Who cares what Bloomington thinks about the idea. They didn't want the interstate anyways.

If INDOT collected on average $0.10 per mile over 90 miles between SR 68 and SR 37, then the average driver would be paying $9 in tolls. If 10,000 people took I-69 everyday then Indiana would collect $90,000. Over a year they would collect $32,850,000. I'm not sure why the idea of tolling I-69 was dropped in the first place.

Maybe the state of Indiana should toll all of our interstate highways. I'd support that too and I live in Indiana. It's not like out of state drivers can avoid Indiana thanks to Lake Michigan and no really good east-west routes across Kentucky. They could take our "free roads", but even if they did it's still cheaper for the state to fix those roads than our interstates. All the gas tax money would be going toward non interstate highways while toll money went to interstates, and we'd have more money than ever to fix and build new roads.

[silverback1065]

go boilers, I can also say that east west travel in West Laff/Laff sucks, south st is a nightmare, teal road is garbage, veterans is hamstrung by development, and salem/union is too slow.

The Hoosier Highway just empties into the middle of Lafayette with absolutely no easy way to keep going to the South-West direction you've been moving flawlessly along all the way from Toledo. Indiana really needs to bypass Lafayette and get that traffic on down to I-74 on a four lane divided highway.

I don't even think INDOT has any plans to do that ever unfortunately.

I thought there were plans to eventually 4 lane US 231 from Lafayette to Crawfordsville (I-74). Before Indiana builds any more new roads we need to fix our existing roads and bridges.

Getting back on topic with I-69. Indiana's best option without making a bunch of people mad would be go to back through and add tolls to I-69 between SR 68 and SR 37. I would fully support having no toll booths along the road and just making it Pay By Mail or EZPASS. Most people aren't used to using it (I-69) yet anyways. Who cares what Bloomington thinks about the idea. They didn't want the interstate anyways.

If INDOT collected on average $0.10 per mile over 90 miles between SR 68 and SR 37, then the average driver would be paying $9 in tolls. If 10,000 people took I-69 everyday then Indiana would collect $90,000. Over a year they would collect $32,850,000. I'm not sure why the idea of tolling I-69 was dropped in the first place.

Maybe the state of Indiana should toll all of our interstate highways. I'd support that too and I live in Indiana. It's not like out of state drivers can avoid Indiana thanks to Lake Michigan and no really good east-west routes across Kentucky. They could take our "free roads", but even if they did it's still cheaper for the state to fix those roads than our interstates. All the gas tax money would be going toward non interstate highways while toll money went to interstates, and we'd have more money than ever to fix and build new roads.

It's INDOT's dream to make 231 a 4 lane divided highway from Lafayette to the Ohio river.  Your tolling idea may happen to 65 and 70, why not 69 too, they'd make so much money from fishers to Muncie, hell toll SR 37 when it gets fixed.  I don't think 74 or 64 should be tolled.  tolling 80 and 94 would net an assload of money as well. 

[westerninterloper]

go boilers, I can also say that east west travel in West Laff/Laff sucks, south st is a nightmare, teal road is garbage, veterans is hamstrung by development, and salem/union is too slow.

The Hoosier Highway just empties into the middle of Lafayette with absolutely no easy way to keep going to the South-West direction you've been moving flawlessly along all the way from Toledo. Indiana really needs to bypass Lafayette and get that traffic on down to I-74 on a four lane divided highway.

I don't even think INDOT has any plans to do that ever unfortunately.

I thought there were plans to eventually 4 lane US 231 from Lafayette to Crawfordsville (I-74). Before Indiana builds any more new roads we need to fix our existing roads and bridges.

Getting back on topic with I-69. Indiana's best option without making a bunch of people mad would be go to back through and add tolls to I-69 between SR 68 and SR 37. I would fully support having no toll booths along the road and just making it Pay By Mail or EZPASS. Most people aren't used to using it (I-69) yet anyways. Who cares what Bloomington thinks about the idea. They didn't want the interstate anyways.

If INDOT collected on average $0.10 per mile over 90 miles between SR 68 and SR 37, then the average driver would be paying $9 in tolls. If 10,000 people took I-69 everyday then Indiana would collect $90,000. Over a year they would collect $32,850,000. I'm not sure why the idea of tolling I-69 was dropped in the first place.

Maybe the state of Indiana should toll all of our interstate highways. I'd support that too and I live in Indiana. It's not like out of state drivers can avoid Indiana thanks to Lake Michigan and no really good east-west routes across Kentucky. They could take our "free roads", but even if they did it's still cheaper for the state to fix those roads than our interstates. All the gas tax money would be going toward non interstate highways while toll money went to interstates, and we'd have more money than ever to fix and build new roads.

It's INDOT's dream to make 231 a 4 lane divided highway from Lafayette to the Ohio river.  Your tolling idea may happen to 65 and 70, why not 69 too, they'd make so much money from fishers to Muncie, hell toll SR 37 when it gets fixed.  I don't think 74 or 64 should be tolled.  tolling 80 and 94 would net an assload of money as well.

INDOT should build a direct route from where SR 63 terminates at Carbondale to West Lafayette, around the northside of Lafayette, and connect it to SR 25. The Heartland Artery needs a connector to the US 41-SR 63 highway on the western edge of the state, even if it is only a super-two.

[IndyAgent]

I find it quite annoying that for each of the first 4 segments offered monthly updates but the segment 5 site has not been updated since October.

I know they have a grid but it would be nice to get a real update every month or so