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Realigning CA-23

Started by Quillz, January 02, 2017, 02:08:36 PM

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Quillz

Kanan Road is a far better crossing of the Santa Monica Mountains than Decker Road. Has there ever been serious discussion of realigning CA-23 onto this alignment?


cahwyguy

There are a few issues, I would think, with doing so. First and foremost, I don't think LA County would want to assume the maintenance for Decker Canyon, and that would be required for the state to relinquish it. There are also likely issues with Kanan Dume to bring it up to state level, quite possibly with tunnel condition and height (there are three tunnels on the route). There's also the issue of the private owners with access to the road. Lastly, would caltrans want to increase the multiplex distances along US 101 to connect from Kanan Dume to the continuation of ROute 23 in T.O.? Right now, Decker turns into Westlake Blvd, which is only a few miles from the rest of 23.
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

Quillz

Quote from: cahwyguy on January 02, 2017, 07:08:07 PM
Lastly, would caltrans want to increase the multiplex distances along US 101 to connect from Kanan Dume to the continuation of ROute 23 in T.O.? Right now, Decker turns into Westlake Blvd, which is only a few miles from the rest of 23.
To me, this should be the least important issue, but somehow it is significant for Caltrans. There is actually ongoing tunnel maintenance right now that is supposed to wrap up later this year (mainly seismic retrofitting, IIRC).

My main issue is that CA-23 is just an awful thruway for the mountains. Very narrow and twisty, and there are some blind curves alongside cliffs. By contrast, Kanan-Dume is nearly four lanes wide for its entire length, has a higher speed limit, is well lit and has few, if any, blind curves. It is a far superior crossing. I guess I'm of the opinion that a state highway designation should always reflect the best route through any given area (in terms of driving prowess).

cahwyguy

I've driven both. Somewhat regularly -- whenever I have to get from Northridge to a summer camp I attended in Malibu (Yerba Buena and PCH). The primary issue relates to everything you point out is wrong with Decker Canyon -- it is not in a condition where the county would want to take over maintenance; the county probably finds it much easier and cheaper to maintain Kanan Dume. The state can't give up Decker if no one wants it; they are unlikely to vacate it and have no one maintain it.

Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

NE2

So make Decker Canyon 23U.

And fictional-ghetto this thread.
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Max Rockatansky

Quote from: NE2 on January 02, 2017, 08:06:32 PM
So make Decker Canyon 23U.

And fictional-ghetto this thread.

County Route N23 on Kanan Dume and call it a day? 

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2017, 08:39:26 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 02, 2017, 08:06:32 PM
So make Decker Canyon 23U.

And fictional-ghetto this thread.

County Route N23 on Kanan Dume and call it a day? 

It's already N9, for what that's worth.  But Dan's right about relinquishment of present 23 along Decker Cyn.; LA County wouldn't likely be interested in adding it to their present mountain road maintenance compendium -- although with the differential in traffic of Kanan-Dume vis-a-vis present 23 (including the likelihood that the former will likely require repaving more often than the latter because of increased usage), there may be some incentive for the county to pull off a trade if possible -- if Caltrans were in fact interested (which they probably aren't).  IMO, the status quo will continue to exist for the foreseeable future. 

Hiroshi66

As a San Fernando Valley local who spends quite a lot of in the Conejo Valley (Westlake and Thousand Oaks), I often find myself on the road from TO/Westlake to the Malibu area. I never take 23 S/Decker Canyon unless I specifically want to drive that route. It's much more convenient to take Kanan Dume (unless I'm driving from the SF Valley, in which case I'd take CA 27 or Las Virgenes/Malibu Canyon).

Decker/CA 23 just seems so much longer... maybe it's because I always find myself driving more cautiously due to all the blind spots. Also, I'm usually the only driver on the road! Nobody else seems to take CA 23 when I'm on it, LOL.

Another issue is that Decker leaves you so far away from "central" Malibu. Both Malibu Canyon and Kanan Dume leave you right in the middle of central locations in the city. Decker almost feels like it's closer to Port Hueneme! If I'm heading from TO to Hueneme or Point Mugu, it's easier to take CA 34 than the 23.

andy3175

#8
Quote from: cahwyguy on January 02, 2017, 07:08:07 PM
There are a few issues, I would think, with doing so. First and foremost, I don't think LA County would want to assume the maintenance for Decker Canyon, and that would be required for the state to relinquish it.

I agree. Transfer of roadways from state to local jurisdictions commonly involves a commitment from the "donor" agency to convince the "recipient" agency that the transfer is in its interest and to its benefit. An example was the 2001 relinquishment of SR 209 (Camino Del Rio-Rosecrans St-Canon St-Catalina Blvd-Cabrillo Memorial Dr) and 274 (Balboa Ave) from Caltrans to the City of San Diego. The State offered the City $11.3 million in onetime revenues in exchange for the City to maintain the soon-to-be-former state routes at an annual cost of about $1 million. (See http://docs.sandiego.gov/reportstocouncil/2001/01-098.pdf for details.) Unless Caltrans can find a way to "sweeten the pot" with a large transfer of funds in a similar manner to the deal worked out for SR 209 or SR 274, I don't see LA County, among other jurisdictions, wanting to take on SR 23 without a significant financial contribution. Further, this section of SR 23 is more rural and is somewhat longer than the combined SR 209 (8.1 miles) or SR 274 (6.1 miles), which may make a comparable transfer on a mile-by-mile basis higher than what was done in 2001 (inflation notwithstanding).

Here's the relevant quote from the City of San Diego report on SR 209 and 274:

QuoteAs part of the transfer, the State will contribute seven excess parcels in the I-15/40th Street construction zone (valued at $2.5 million), and $8,156,000 in a lump sum cash payment, to be used to bring these roads to City standards. Of this amount, $282,000 is specifically earmarked as State matching funds for a Federal TEA-21 beautification project on Balboa Avenue; the City is committed to applying for the $683,000 in TEA-21 funds. The total contribution from all State and Federal sources is therefore $11,339,000. As a result of the transfer, the City will assume all maintenance, operational, and liability costs associated with these roadways at an estimated annual cost of $1,040,000. ...

State Route 209 runs the length of Point Loma, changing names several times in its 8.1-mile length. From the north, these segments are:

1. Camino del Rio West, from Interstate 8 to Rosecrans Street/Sports Arena Boulevard;
2. Rosecrans Street, from Sports Arena Boulevard to Cañon Street;
3. Cañon Street, from Rosecrans Street to Catalina Boulevard;
4. Catalina Boulevard, from Cañon Street to the entrance of Fort Rosecrans; and
5. Cabrillo Memorial Drive, through Fort Rosecrans to the entrance of the Cabrillo National Monument.

Within Cabrillo National Monument, the roadway is under Federal jurisdiction.

State Route 274 consists entirely of Balboa Avenue, from Interstate 5 to Interstate 15, a length of 6.1 miles.
Regards,
Andy

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