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Why isn't english the official language of the United States?

Started by US 41, July 14, 2014, 09:13:37 PM

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Sould english be the official language?

Yes
21 (56.8%)
No
16 (43.2%)

Total Members Voted: 37

US 41

Obviously for political reasons. But you would've thought that back in the 17 and 18 hundreds it would've been made the official language. Several states have made English the official language. Oddly enough the official language of Puerto Rico is English. I wonder if their signs are in English or Spanish?
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Takumi

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oscar

Quote from: US 41 on July 14, 2014, 09:13:37 PM
Obviously for political reasons. But you would've thought that back in the 17 and 18 hundreds it would've been made the official language. Several states have made English the official language. Oddly enough the official language of Puerto Rico is English. I wonder if their signs are in English or Spanish?

Puerto Rico's road signs are in Spanish. Except for the oddball exception of speed limits (in mph), they're also all in metric. The transportation department's official website, and its name (Departamento de Transportación y Obras Públicas), are in Spanish with no obvious accommodation for English-speaking website users.

English is clearly the de facto official language of the U.S., even though there is no law specifically saying so (which. IMHO, would be both unnecessary and needlessly complicate the Federal Government's use of other languages as needed). All the laws are at least nominally written in English, except treaties and similar agreements with non-English-speaking nations, and even if there are translations out there only the English version counts. For treaties, etc. written in both our language and the other nation(s)'s, there are provisions for which version controls, something also used more broadly by countries with more than one official language but not the U.S.

Some U.S. states have more than one official language, including at least New Mexico (Spanish) and Hawaii (Hawaiian). Their road signs are in English.
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agentsteel53

Quote from: oscar on July 14, 2014, 10:38:06 PM
Some U.S. states have more than one official language, including at least New Mexico (Spanish) and Hawaii (Hawaiian).  Their road signs are in English.

we have the occasional bilingual sign in English, but I've never seen anything beyond the informative.  for example, the Chinatown district in Oakland, CA has street names in English and Chinese. 


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Pete from Boston

#4
Quote from: US 41 on July 14, 2014, 09:13:37 PM
Obviously for political reasons. But you would've thought that back in the 17 and 18 hundreds it would've been made the official language. Several states have made English the official language. Oddly enough the official language of Puerto Rico is English. I wonder if their signs are in English or Spanish?

I think Americans don't use English well enough to make it the official language?

We use sentence fragments, write out the names of centuries improperly, start sentences with prepositions, use question marks at the end of declarative statements, omit commas where called for...

England ought never allow us to officially appropriate their language under such circumstances.

realjd

Quote from: US 41 on July 14, 2014, 09:13:37 PM
Obviously for political reasons. But you would've thought that back in the 17 and 18 hundreds it would've been made the official language. Several states have made English the official language. Oddly enough the official language of Puerto Rico is English. I wonder if their signs are in English or Spanish?

Both Spanish and English are official languages in PR but Spanish is primary and used for the government, road signs, and in classrooms. The population has a surprisingly low English fluency rate, although that's changing with the younger generations.

Road signs in PR are Spanish translations of their standard American counterparts. Do Not Enter becomes No Entre and One Way becomes Transito for instance. Interestingly, they use both Spanish text "No Estacione" signs (no parking) but keep slash-P no parking symbol signs, unlike places like Mexico that use slash-E for no parking.

Other US territories such as Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands (Saipan) have local languages as official as well.

EDIT: According to wikipedia, Texas and NM also recognized Spanish as a de facto official language, as do Louisiana and Maine with French.

Avalanchez71

 :banghead:
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 14, 2014, 10:49:08 PM
Quote from: oscar on July 14, 2014, 10:38:06 PM
Some U.S. states have more than one official language, including at least New Mexico (Spanish) and Hawaii (Hawaiian).  Their road signs are in English.

we have the occasional bilingual sign in English, but I've never seen anything beyond the informative.  for example, the Chinatown district in Oakland, CA has street names in English and Chinese. 



ET21

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
Quote from: US 41 on July 14, 2014, 09:13:37 PM
Obviously for political reasons. But you would've thought that back in the 17 and 18 hundreds it would've been made the official language. Several states have made English the official language. Oddly enough the official language of Puerto Rico is English. I wonder if their signs are in English or Spanish?

I think Americans don't use English well enough to make it the official language?

We use sentence fragments, write out the names of centuries improperly, start sentences with prepositions, use question marks at the end of declarative statements, omit commas where called for...

England ought never allow us to officially appropriate their language under such circumstances.

That's why it's called American English. The UK uses English  :)
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triplemultiplex

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Scott5114

Why isn't Cherokee the official language of the United States?
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english si

English isn't the official language of England for the same reason - it's de facto the case, and there is no doubt, so why bother making it de jure the case? (I should point out that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have English as an official language as there is both doubt as to whether English is totally dominant, and other official languages).

Local authorities, especially London ones, will often publish public-facing documents in non-English languages (Polish, Hindi, Urdu, etc) - though that is less the case now when it comes to TfL - I can't find the Urdu tube map (for residents, given the choice of other languages. had station/line names in English, everything else in Urdu), for instance (pretty sure that's a Ken v Boris thing). There are a few signs for visitors in several languages - at points of entry, etc. And Chinatown in London is bilingual/Chinese only, but is small and the Chinese only signs have pictograms.

formulanone


Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
I think Americans don't use English well enough to make it the official language?

We use sentence fragments, write out the names of centuries improperly, start sentences with prepositions, use question marks at the end of declarative statements, omit commas where called for...

England ought never allow us to officially appropriate their language under such circumstances.

If you think America is the only nation who bastardizes her language, please check out some discussion boards or any other media entirely in another language. We are not the sole users and inventors of slang, abbreviations, grammar errors, spelling mistakes, and inappropriate use of style.

english si

But rarely, outside of pidgin/creole-type or slang languages do you see spelling mistakes being seen as 'correct'. But American English has that (neither Aussies nor Kiwis nor Springboks nor South Asians would see 'flavor' as correct English* - just the Americans**). Quebecois doesn't remove vowels from French to make spelling simpler or remove double letters, etc.

The many different dialects of European English employ slang, abbreviations, etc, but they still spell stuff correctly (or try to anyway).

*OK, even Brits sort of do now. Certainly coursemates of mine from the Channel Islands asked whether US English spelling is OK for essays (it is, as long as it is consistent) as that's what they use at work and stuff (and presumably it's been OK in schools for years there, as all of them are old people). Teenagers use such spelling a lot, but they wouldn't get all their SPAG marks in humanities subjects at GCSE and A level, even if consistent. At least in the Humanities (and there's probably a fairly high penalty in English Language for spelling stuff the American way) - Sciences and Foreign Languages you probably would get away with it.
**I believe that includes Bermuda and the Caribbean too, though I'm not certain.

SP Cook

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2014, 04:16:38 AM
Why isn't Cherokee the official language of the United States?


Bad immigration policies.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: ET21 on July 15, 2014, 01:04:18 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
Quote from: US 41 on July 14, 2014, 09:13:37 PM
Obviously for political reasons. But you would've thought that back in the 17 and 18 hundreds it would've been made the official language. Several states have made English the official language. Oddly enough the official language of Puerto Rico is English. I wonder if their signs are in English or Spanish?

I think Americans don't use English well enough to make it the official language?

We use sentence fragments, write out the names of centuries improperly, start sentences with prepositions, use question marks at the end of declarative statements, omit commas where called for...

England ought never allow us to officially appropriate their language under such circumstances.

That's why it's called American English. The UK uses English  :)

What I described is actually called "broken English."

US71

Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Pete from Boston


Quote from: formulanone on July 15, 2014, 05:27:44 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
I think Americans don't use English well enough to make it the official language?

We use sentence fragments, write out the names of centuries improperly, start sentences with prepositions, use question marks at the end of declarative statements, omit commas where called for...

England ought never allow us to officially appropriate their language under such circumstances.

If you think America is the only nation who bastardizes her language, please check out some discussion boards or any other media entirely in another language. We are not the sole users and inventors of slang, abbreviations, grammar errors, spelling mistakes, and inappropriate use of style.

I would put it to any speaker any language who made a big stink about protecting that language that they themselves had better be protecting it by using it properly or they should shut the hell up.

Let me put it this way: if there was a simple test required to qualify to have English as an official language, one that required the average score of Americans–I'll even go so far as to just say native English-speaking Americans–be at a simple high-school-senior English class level, I have a strong feeling that we noble defenders of the mother tongue would not pass.

roadman65

There is no official language in the US Constitution as we were made a Democratic Republic.  Our founding fathers wanted a nation of freedom and therefore decided that issue to be a custom rather than something decided by law.

Heck, we could have also spoke German too, but being once part of the mighty UK that is how we ended up English.
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hbelkins

I would be in favor of designating an official language for governmental purposes, both state and federal. That is, for example, all government forms should be printed in English only. There should be no tax forms printed in Spanish or no "press 1 for English" instructions when you call a government office.

People should be free to use whatever language they want, but it should be understood that if you want to survive in American society, you use the dominant language.

I would never move to, say, France, and expect the government or businesses there to cater to me as an English speaker. I would learn the native language.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

1995hoo

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 15, 2014, 09:37:41 AM

Quote from: formulanone on July 15, 2014, 05:27:44 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
I think Americans don't use English well enough to make it the official language?

We use sentence fragments, write out the names of centuries improperly, start sentences with prepositions, use question marks at the end of declarative statements, omit commas where called for...

England ought never allow us to officially appropriate their language under such circumstances.

If you think America is the only nation who bastardizes her language, please check out some discussion boards or any other media entirely in another language. We are not the sole users and inventors of slang, abbreviations, grammar errors, spelling mistakes, and inappropriate use of style.

I would put it to any speaker any language who made a big stink about protecting that language that they themselves had better be protecting it by using it properly or they should shut the hell up.

Let me put it this way: if there was a simple test required to qualify to have English as an official language, one that required the average score of Americans–I'll even go so far as to just say native English-speaking Americans–be at a simple high-school-senior English class level, I have a strong feeling that we noble defenders of the mother tongue would not pass.


I'm guessing you may not realize the humor value of the boldfaced text in the context of the rest of your comment (although I suppose you could debate whether the subjunctive would be included on a "simple" test)!  :-D
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US 41

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2014, 10:39:48 AM
I would be in favor of designating an official language for governmental purposes, both state and federal. That is, for example, all government forms should be printed in English only. There should be no tax forms printed in Spanish or no "press 1 for English" instructions when you call a government office.

People should be free to use whatever language they want, but it should be understood that if you want to survive in American society, you use the dominant language.

I would never move to, say, France, and expect the government or businesses there to cater to me as an English speaker. I would learn the native language.

I agree. With all the people coming up from Mexico and Central America, it seems like the government wants we citizens to learn a second language (Spanish), instead of the Mexicans learning English. I'm in favor of English being the official language for that reason. And to previous comments, who cares if no one speaks English correctly, it should still be the official language.
Visited States and Provinces:
USA (48)= All of Lower 48
Canada (5)= NB, NS, ON, PEI, QC
Mexico (9)= BCN, BCS, CHIH, COAH, DGO, NL, SON, SIN, TAM

corco

Don't forget that New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas had sizable Spanish speaking populations before they became part of America in San Antonio, El Paso, Santa Fe, and Tucson. The Spanish language has been part of our national fabric since we chose to invade Mexico. I see oppressing the Spanish language in the southwest as similar to attempts to quash French in Quebec.

Society is more mobile today, so now we see more Spanish speakers in Ohio, but  the US has had a large Spanish speaking population since the 1850s, and state, territorial, and federal governments have used it as necessary since that time, but people in Maine wouldn't have noticed it until recently. But this isn't new.

I agree with the idea that an official language is just a government burden. If government needs to use Spanish in high Latino areas, that's fine with me. At the state level, if, say, Virginia wants to make English its official language to protect its culture, that is their prerogative. The feds have to look after the entire country though, including the southwest.

Pressing one for English doesn't bother me. Our country is theoretically bound by its values. Language isn't a value, though I would love to see somebody argue that English is morally superior to Spanish.

oscar

Quote from: corco on July 15, 2014, 11:20:27 AM
Don't forget that New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas had sizable Spanish speaking populations before they became part of America in San Antonio, El Paso, Santa Fe, and Tucson. The Spanish language has been part of our national fabric since we chose to invade Mexico. I see oppressing the Spanish language in the southwest as similar to attempts to quash French in Quebec.

Similar for Hawaii, which has some places where Hawaiian remains the main language. And also for tribal reservations and other native lands on the mainland, which not only non-English languages prevailed before being added to the U.S., but also remain sovereign to some extent and so are especially entitled to retain their native languages.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Pete from Boston


Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2014, 10:39:48 AM
I would be in favor of designating an official language for governmental purposes, both state and federal. That is, for example, all government forms should be printed in English only. There should be no tax forms printed in Spanish or no "press 1 for English" instructions when you call a government office.

People should be free to use whatever language they want, but it should be understood that if you want to survive in American society, you use the dominant language.

I would never move to, say, France, and expect the government or businesses there to cater to me as an English speaker. I would learn the native language.

English, however, is not the native language here.  It is instead the dominant one of many imported foreign languages.

If being the dominant foreign language means it should be the official language, then why the heck hasn't the dominant linguistic group made it so through the legislative process?  Probably because at best it's not that important, and at worst it is discriminatory and jingoistic.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: US 41 on July 15, 2014, 11:02:29 AMI agree. With all the people coming up from Mexico and Central America, it seems like the government wants we citizens to learn a second language (Spanish), instead of the Mexicans learning English. I'm in favor of English being the official language for that reason.

The government has always wanted us to learn a second language.  Everywhere I've ever lived has had a foreign language requirement in public schools, as did my (public) university.

QuoteAnd to previous comments, who cares if no one speaks English correctly, it should still be the official language.

To all those who preach "learn English," I reply, "you first."



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