Pedestrian Countdown Timers

[PColumbus73]

I've been wondering, is there a standard for when a pedestrian crossing signal goes from WALK to the Flashing Hand/Countdown Phase? In my area, I've seen countdowns begin at 30 seconds or greater (I think I've seen a pedestrian signal start counting down from 60). I think that countdowns should be calculated by the time it takes to get from the middle of the road to the opposite curb (after an appropriately timed WALK interval). I think having an unreasonably long countdown interval renders the phase irrelevant.

[agentsteel53]

I like a flashing orange phase with a shown number.  one with a hidden number is meaningless.

[Brandon]

I've seen countdowns as long as 20-25 seconds in Chicago.  However, the standard in Chicago for the change from the flashing hand to the steady hand is when the signal switches from green to yellow.

[hotdogPi]

Flashing hand starts anywhere between 3 and 18.

I have seen one stuck at 3 seconds and one stuck at 15 seconds.

The weirdest one was one that randomly started with a number between 24 and 30 (with the walk signal), and after 22 seconds, it would change to 5 and show the flashing hand.

I have seen the number above 80 on a side road once (with a walk signal; the flashing hand started at 5).

[PColumbus73]

I like a flashing orange phase with a shown number.  one with a hidden number is meaningless.

It's not the shown number I take issue with, it's how long the number is. The areas where I've seen these long countdowns are at areas that are not pedestrian heavy, but in my mind at least, I feel like unreasonably long countdowns change the interval from 'Do Not Begin Crossing' to 'Oh yeah, you got plenty of time'.

[hotdogPi]

I like a flashing orange phase with a shown number.  one with a hidden number is meaningless.

It's not the shown number I take issue with, it's how long the number is. The areas where I've seen these long countdowns are at areas that are not pedestrian heavy, but in my mind at least, I feel like unreasonably long countdowns change the interval from 'Do Not Begin Crossing' to 'Oh yeah, you got plenty of time'.

The way I see them, they begin at any number (20 to 80, depending on the road) with a walk signal. At a certain number (3 or 5 for a small street, 10 or 12 for a medium street, 18 if several lanes and divided), the walk signal turns into a flashing hand. If the flashing hand starts above 15, it's always for a busy road.

[Eth]

I can't say I've ever seen one that still displays the WALK signal while counting down. The flashing hand always appears along with the beginning of the countdown (which seems to usually be in about the 15-30 second range, in my experience).

[jeffandnicole]

This thread will give you the official information regarding the Ped Countdown Timers

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7510.0

[Pete from Boston]

There's one in Porter Square, Cambridge, Massachusetts, that is something like 75 seconds long.  It crosses the most minor of movements in the intersection–added only as an afterthought in the last reconfiguration–and that movement only has a green/yellow total of about 17 seconds. 

I've always wondered why more places don't use DC's countdown-to-walk timers.  Too confusing for a public accustomed to "timer=walk"?

[freebrickproductions]

All of the pedestrian signals in Huntsville, AL display the countdowns while the walk symbol is on.
Madison, AL is a mixed bag when it comes to the countdown pedestrian signals, some of them countdown on the walk while others don't.

[Pink Jazz]

Actually, the reason why most cities don't display the countdown timer during the walk phase is due to the 2009 MUTCD specifically prohibiting it.  The reason is because the walk phase isn't always a fixed duration due to varying green light times (I have seen some skip several seconds after going into the flashing don't walk phase).  The flashing don't walk phase, on the other hand, is always a fixed duration by MUTCD standards.  Pedestrian signals that still display the countdown timer during the walk phase simply haven't been reprogrammed to exclude it yet.

[roadfro]

I've always wondered why more places don't use DC's countdown-to-walk timers.  Too confusing for a public accustomed to "timer=walk"?

Actually, the reason why most cities don't display the countdown timer during the walk phase is due to the 2009 MUTCD specifically prohibiting it.  The reason is because the walk phase isn't always a fixed duration due to varying green light times (I have seen some skip several seconds after going into the flashing don't walk phase).  The flashing don't walk phase, on the other hand, is always a fixed duration by MUTCD standards.  Pedestrian signals that still display the countdown timer during the walk phase simply haven't been reprogrammed to exclude it yet.

Expanding these thoughts. The reason why DC countdowns can work showing the countdown during the walk interval is that the vast majority of DC signals are fixed time, so the countdown duration is a known constant through the walk & FDW phases. DC knows they are non-compliant, but continue to use them anyway...

[Pete from Boston]

Pedestrian signals that still display the countdown timer during the walk phase simply haven't been reprogrammed to exclude it yet.

I'm not sure that is true.  They are still being installed around here. 

[roadman]

Pedestrian signals that still display the countdown timer during the walk phase simply haven't been reprogrammed to exclude it yet.

I'm not sure that is true.  They are still being installed around here. 

I believe that the Peoples Republic City of Cambridge is the only community in Massachusetts that is still using countdown timers during the Walk phase.

[spooky]

Right, the People's Republic doesn't follow the same rules as the rest of the Commonwealth.

[tradephoric]

Below are the conclusions of a study that looked at the effects of pedestrian countdown timers on driver behavior.

Drivers were found to drive less aggressively at intersections equipped with CDTs compared to similar nearby intersections on the same corridor that did not have CDTs. The proportion of drivers that increased their speed on the intersection approach was significantly less at the intersections with CDTs.

Additionally, drivers who stopped at the intersections were more likely to begin decelerating even before the beginning of the amber phase. These two findings seem to dispel the notion that drivers use CDTs to drive more aggressively. Rather, these findings indicate that drivers use the information presented on the CDTs to make better decisions about their ability to reach the intersections prior to the beginning of the red phase, and they are less likely to drive aggressively as a result.

The data analyzed in this research indicate that drivers use the information provided from pedestrian CDTs to improve their driving decisions; even though the CDT information was not intended to be used by drivers, it appears that they are indeed doing so in a way that results in improved driving actions. Additional research is needed to determine if these results can be replicated at other locations and under other conditions. Additionally, an important safety question not addressed from this research is how drivers might use CDT information when departing from an intersection at the beginning of the green phase.
http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/midcon2007/BundyModify.pdf

I find myself doing this.  I glance to see how much time is left in the pedestrian countdown timer as I approach an intersection.   If only a few seconds are left in the countdown timer, I find myself slowing down and avoiding the "dilemma"  of slamming on my brakes or gunning it to make it through the intersection.   In a way, the pedestrian countdown timers can be used to help position drivers out of the "dilemma zone" . 

A few comments.  The use of CDTs to judge how soon a light will change to yellow is only practical under certain situations.  There are situations where the countdown timer is going to reach zero well before the light changes to yellow (IE. side-streets w/pushbuttons where the side-street doesn't gap).  Another issue is that the termination of pedestrian CDTs aren't consistent in the MUTCD.  Currently, CDTs can terminate at the start of the yellow change interval, in the middle of the yellow change interval, or at the start of the red change interval.   With so many variations, a driver can't rely that the light will change to yellow as the CDT reaches zero.  IMO, the MUTCD should encourage that the CDTs terminate at the start of the yellow change interval.

[freebrickproductions]

Pedestrian signals that still display the countdown timer during the walk phase simply haven't been reprogrammed to exclude it yet.

I'm not sure that is true.  They are still being installed around here. 

Same here for Huntsville.
In fact, when HDOT converted all of the pedestrian signals to countdown LED, they changed all of them to countdown on the walk.
I recall reading an article somewhere that said that DC is/was part of an experiment to see how well counting down on the walk would work.

[Pete from Boston]

Pedestrian signals that still display the countdown timer during the walk phase simply haven't been reprogrammed to exclude it yet.

I'm not sure that is true.  They are still being installed around here. 

I believe that the Peoples Republic City of Cambridge is the only community in Massachusetts that is still using countdown timers during the Walk phase.

Cambridge just annexed Mystic Ave, then.

[mrsman]

Below are the conclusions of a study that looked at the effects of pedestrian countdown timers on driver behavior.

Drivers were found to drive less aggressively at intersections equipped with CDTs compared to similar nearby intersections on the same corridor that did not have CDTs. The proportion of drivers that increased their speed on the intersection approach was significantly less at the intersections with CDTs.

Additionally, drivers who stopped at the intersections were more likely to begin decelerating even before the beginning of the amber phase. These two findings seem to dispel the notion that drivers use CDTs to drive more aggressively. Rather, these findings indicate that drivers use the information presented on the CDTs to make better decisions about their ability to reach the intersections prior to the beginning of the red phase, and they are less likely to drive aggressively as a result.

The data analyzed in this research indicate that drivers use the information provided from pedestrian CDTs to improve their driving decisions; even though the CDT information was not intended to be used by drivers, it appears that they are indeed doing so in a way that results in improved driving actions. Additional research is needed to determine if these results can be replicated at other locations and under other conditions. Additionally, an important safety question not addressed from this research is how drivers might use CDT information when departing from an intersection at the beginning of the green phase.
http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/midcon2007/BundyModify.pdf

I find myself doing this.  I glance to see how much time is left in the pedestrian countdown timer as I approach an intersection.   If only a few seconds are left in the countdown timer, I find myself slowing down and avoiding the "dilemma"  of slamming on my brakes or gunning it to make it through the intersection.   In a way, the pedestrian countdown timers can be used to help position drivers out of the "dilemma zone" . 

A few comments.  The use of CDTs to judge how soon a light will change to yellow is only practical under certain situations.  There are situations where the countdown timer is going to reach zero well before the light changes to yellow (IE. side-streets w/pushbuttons where the side-street doesn't gap).  Another issue is that the termination of pedestrian CDTs aren't consistent in the MUTCD.  Currently, CDTs can terminate at the start of the yellow change interval, in the middle of the yellow change interval, or at the start of the red change interval.   With so many variations, a driver can't rely that the light will change to yellow as the CDT reaches zero.  IMO, the MUTCD should encourage that the CDTs terminate at the start of the yellow change interval.

You make a very good case for nationwide standards with regard to the count down timers.

IMO, I like to have as  much information as possible for all users.  In a situation where the timing is fixed, then I'm OK with showing a countdown timer from the beginning of the green.  In situations where it is not fixed, the timer should begin at flashing don't walk.  But the timer should reach zero exactly when the steady don't walk (or hand) appears.  If there is traffic waiting on the side street, then the yellow light should also come on immediately at the zero time.  If there is no side traffic then, of course, the signal should be green and the walk phase should come back as well.