Oklahoma's love for US highways

[texaskdog]

Oklahoma loves to not decommission US highways.  So how was US 66 eliminated?

[hotdogPi]

If all the other states chose to, and Oklahoma didn't, US 66 would be in one state only, and would probably end at state borders, which would be strange and confusing.

[kendancy66]

I remember reading somewhere that Oklahoma and Texas were still signing US-66 up to about 1992, even after the decommissioning in 1985.

[texaskdog]

If all the other states chose to, and Oklahoma didn't, US 66 would be in one state only, and would probably end at state borders, which would be strange and confusing.

Oklahoma is strange and confusing to begin with

[Scott5114]

If all the other states chose to, and Oklahoma didn't, US 66 would be in one state only, and would probably end at state borders, which would be strange and confusing.

Oklahoma is strange and confusing to begin with

Agreed, and Oklahoma DOT is even more so.

As for the question in the thread, I think it's not so much a love for US highways in particular but more reluctance/apathy toward changing anything about the state highway system. There has never been a major reorganization of the system, so there are some highways with roots stretching back to the 1920s (SH-9 is one of these). Meanwhile, there's lots of spurs to small towns which barely exist anymore (which Kansas would have turned back), lots of strange numbering that never got officially updated when other highways were added to the system (SH-14 has an unsigned useless concurrency with US-64 into Alva, US-277 really has no business existing between Ninnekah and Newcastle), and then there's that whole SH-3 thing.

I would wager that US-266 still exists mostly because nobody can be arsed to do anything about it. And there's also the fact that ODOT really just does not care what AASHTO wants–after getting a US-377 extension rejected multiple times over the course of 30 years, they finally just shrugged and sent the sign truck out anyway. AASHTO still considers US-377 to end in Madill, but you'll find signage for it along SH-99 all the way up to Stroud. (Yet, in a similar vein to above, SH-99 still exists between Stroud and the Texas border, for no real reason other than to take up space on sign posts.)

As for US-66? I have a feeling the proximity to the turnpikes probably led them to be okay with decommissioning it. I would discount any claims that ODOT intentionally posted US-66 into the 90s–I have photographic evidence of an auction of authentic US-66 signs in the mid-1980s. There were probably some error or forgotten signs extant after this though. (OKHighways.com mentions a sign at the Vinita exit from the Will Rogers Turnpike lasted until 2002, reading US-66. It's unclear whether that sign was an error or simply was never patched when US-66 was decommissioned. The fact that the road the exit leads to was US-66 but was never OK-66, and that the road is US-69, which is not mentioned, leads credence to the "never-patched" theory, though. The current presence of an OK-66 shield can be written off as a carbon-copy error.)

[rte66man]

If all the other states chose to, and Oklahoma didn't, US 66 would be in one state only, and would probably end at state borders, which would be strange and confusing.

Oklahoma is strange and confusing to begin with

Agreed, and Oklahoma DOT is even more so.

As for the question in the thread, I think it's not so much a love for US highways in particular but more reluctance/apathy toward changing anything about the state highway system. There has never been a major reorganization of the system, so there are some highways with roots stretching back to the 1920s (SH-9 is one of these). Meanwhile, there's lots of spurs to small towns which barely exist anymore (which Kansas would have turned back), lots of strange numbering that never got officially updated when other highways were added to the system (SH-14 has an unsigned useless concurrency with US-64 into Alva, US-277 really has no business existing between Ninnekah and Newcastle), and then there's that whole SH-3 thing.

I would wager that US-266 still exists mostly because nobody can be arsed to do anything about it. And there's also the fact that ODOT really just does not care what AASHTO wants–after getting a US-377 extension rejected multiple times over the course of 30 years, they finally just shrugged and sent the sign truck out anyway. AASHTO still considers US-377 to end in Madill, but you'll find signage for it along SH-99 all the way up to Stroud. (Yet, in a similar vein to above, SH-99 still exists between Stroud and the Texas border, for no real reason other than to take up space on sign posts.)

As for US-66? I have a feeling the proximity to the turnpikes probably led them to be okay with decommissioning it. I would discount any claims that ODOT intentionally posted US-66 into the 90s–I have photographic evidence of an auction of authentic US-66 signs in the mid-1980s. There were probably some error or forgotten signs extant after this though. (OKHighways.com mentions a sign at the Vinita exit from the Will Rogers Turnpike lasted until 2002, reading US-66. It's unclear whether that sign was an error or simply was never patched when US-66 was decommissioned. The fact that the road the exit leads to was US-66 but was never OK-66, and that the road is US-69, which is not mentioned, leads credence to the "never-patched" theory, though. The current presence of an OK-66 shield can be written off as a carbon-copy error.)

I remember the US66 shield was still on a BGS eastbound on I44 at Wellston well into the 2000's.  There is still an old "circle" OK66 sign in OKC.  Lends credence to the theory that ODOT doesn't really give a crap about correct signage.  I have a photo from when the Hefner Parkway BGS's were replaced where the sign southbound at 39th St said "OK3" instead of "OK66".  I need to get that posted.

[Scott5114]

I-44 at Wellston is OTA, of course.

Old circle signs are just old signs–let 'em live, so future roadgeeks can appreciate 'em. There's an old circle sign on an old alignment of SH-7 near Ratliff City that points to modern OK-7...doesn't need to be a cleaver.

[US71]

I-44 at Wellston is OTA, of course.

Old circle signs are just old signs–let 'em live, so future roadgeeks can appreciate 'em. There's an old circle sign on an old alignment of SH-7 near Ratliff City that points to modern OK-7...doesn't need to be a cleaver.

There's a circle sign for OK 43 on the Indian Nation Turnpike.

[texaskdog]

If all the other states chose to, and Oklahoma didn't, US 66 would be in one state only, and would probably end at state borders, which would be strange and confusing.

Oklahoma is strange and confusing to begin with

Agreed, and Oklahoma DOT is even more so.

As for the question in the thread, I think it's not so much a love for US highways in particular but more reluctance/apathy toward changing anything about the state highway system. There has never been a major reorganization of the system, so there are some highways with roots stretching back to the 1920s (SH-9 is one of these). Meanwhile, there's lots of spurs to small towns which barely exist anymore (which Kansas would have turned back), lots of strange numbering that never got officially updated when other highways were added to the system (SH-14 has an unsigned useless concurrency with US-64 into Alva, US-277 really has no business existing between Ninnekah and Newcastle), and then there's that whole SH-3 thing.

I would wager that US-266 still exists mostly because nobody can be arsed to do anything about it. And there's also the fact that ODOT really just does not care what AASHTO wants—after getting a US-377 extension rejected multiple times over the course of 30 years, they finally just shrugged and sent the sign truck out anyway. AASHTO still considers US-377 to end in Madill, but you'll find signage for it along SH-99 all the way up to Stroud. (Yet, in a similar vein to above, SH-99 still exists between Stroud and the Texas border, for no real reason other than to take up space on sign posts.)

As for US-66? I have a feeling the proximity to the turnpikes probably led them to be okay with decommissioning it. I would discount any claims that ODOT intentionally posted US-66 into the 90s—I have photographic evidence of an auction of authentic US-66 signs in the mid-1980s. There were probably some error or forgotten signs extant after this though. (OKHighways.com mentions a sign at the Vinita exit from the Will Rogers Turnpike lasted until 2002, reading US-66. It's unclear whether that sign was an error or simply was never patched when US-66 was decommissioned. The fact that the road the exit leads to was US-66 but was never OK-66, and that the road is US-69, which is not mentioned, leads credence to the "never-patched" theory, though. The current presence of an OK-66 shield can be written off as a carbon-copy error.)

Scott needs to work for ODOT.

[Scott5114]

Can't say I haven't thought about it...but having worked in a similarly screwed-up quasi-governmental business, I imagine I would get stressed out banging my head against the wall trying and failing to make the place better and end up just as burned out in the end. An organization with that sort of issue needs to be fixed from the top.

Another example of US highway weirdness that probably wouldn't exist elsewhere–look at US-377's route in Ada. Hops off the freeway on the southeast side of town, uses surface streets on the east and north edges of town, rejoins the freeway in the northwest. Part of this is because US-377 exited town to the north on Broadway until recently (the expressway extending north of the Richardson Loop didn't exist yet). But most other states would move 377 to the bypass, and either establish a Business US-377 or turn it over to the city. ODOT is in a better position to do this than most DOTs, since 377 is already not AASHTO-compliant, so they can realign it however they wish with no approval. And yet, nobody has bothered to get this done.

[bugo]

There are circle 51s all over downtown Tulsa, as well as a few off of the BA.

[US71]

There are circle 51s all over downtown Tulsa, as well as a few off of the BA.

There is a circle sign (on a square) for OK 43 along Indian Nation Turnpike.


MB886

[texaskdog]

And what is with OK-3 anyway?  Just a big duplex in the NW

[rte66man]

And what is with OK-3 anyway?  Just a big duplex in the NW

It is the "Northwest Passage".  Created by Gov. George Nigh, it was a political sop to the rural pols (not OK3 that is).  Because of this, any concurrencies are moot.

[bugo]

This sign was posted for about 2 weeks in September of 2012:

[Thing 342]

This sign was posted for about 2 weeks in September of 2012:

It took two weeks for someone to wise up and steal it?