ESPN: Raiders Moving to Las Vegas

[bing101]

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/San-Diego-Raiders-Fact-or-Fiction-412490483.html

Apparently that's being debated too Raiders to San Diego.

[triplemultiplex]

How's this for a twist: Las Vegas is in danger of losing the Raiders after this development...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/raiders/2017/01/30/sheldon-adelson-las-vegas-raiders-oakland-stadium-project/97267980/

Good for the Raiders.  Now they won't be associated with a slime mold in the shape of a person. 

[Buck87]

Being reported there's a good chance the NFL owners will vote to approve the Raiders move to Las Vegas at today's owners meeting

[Big John]

^^ It was approved on a 31-1 vote.

[SP Cook]

Stadium will be directly across I-15 from Mandalay Bay (BTW the real Mandalay, in Burma, is an inland city hundreds of miles from the ocean), one exit north of the I-15/I-215 JCT and about 2000 yards (as the crow flies) from the airport. 

Will not be finished until 2020 if everything goes according to plan.  UNLV and the rugby events (LV holds a rugby tournament every February, to draw tourists from countries where it is popular such as Australia and New Zealand) will also use it, as will the Las Vegas Bowl.   Certainly, eventually, like other large stadiums a Super Bowl, NCAA tournaments, and other such will show up there. 

At 40K with bleacher seats and outdoors in the heat, Sam Boyd Stadium is described as "not currently suitable" for the NFL, although the Review-Journal says that some exhibition games might be played there.  That means 3 years of lame duck status in Oakland, and it means asking the A's to wait until at least 2023 or 24 for a stadium solution, as the only realistic option for baseball is to tear down the colisuem and rebuild on the same lot.  With no funding in sight and that long a wait, Montreal becons.

[nexus73]

I heard on ESPN that the agency handling the stadium tripled the rent on the Raiders when they figured the NFL team had no option but to stick around to get stuck.  The son of Al Davis showed 'em what he thought of that!

Rick

[Roadgeek Adam]

At 40K with bleacher seats and outdoors in the heat, Sam Boyd Stadium is described as "not currently suitable" for the NFL, although the Review-Journal says that some exhibition games might be played there.  That means 3 years of lame duck status in Oakland, and it means asking the A's to wait until at least 2023 or 24 for a stadium solution, as the only realistic option for baseball is to tear down the colisuem and rebuild on the same lot.  With no funding in sight and that long a wait, Montreal becons.

I already support the idea of tearing down the Coliseum and building a new one on that site, but for one thing, you can start earlier in that time frame if you support moving the team to AT&T Park for a couple seasons in a shared clubhouse situation. In this time frame:

Draw up plans in this three-year time frame, get all necessary approvals
Raiders and Athletics are out by 2020, demolition begins immediately (implosion probably best)
New As stadium starts construction once cleanup is done. 2022 would be reasonable if it's on the same pace as SunTrust Park.

There is no reason to move the As to another city. Oakland can make enough money as a tourist attraction and has the ability to sustain the team. I support Montreal getting a team, but Oakland is not the answer.

[Duke87]

I still find the idea of Las Vegas being home to professional sports teams weird. There aren't supposed to be family friendly recreational activities in Las Vegas.

[bing101]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/raiders-move-from-oakland-to-las-vegas-approved/


Update for the Raiders to Vegas.

[sparker]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/raiders-move-from-oakland-to-las-vegas-approved/


Update for the Raiders to Vegas.

After the NFL owners' vote today, Oakland fans were, at least in interviews with KCBS (AM 740) radio, quite pissed off at the whole thing -- with both Mark Davis (owner) and Oakland city officials bearing the brunt of the anger.  One fellow, who apparently was one of the more vocal end-zone boosters (the ones who regularly dressed up in silver & black "warpaint") stated that if the Raiders elected to play out the next two years at the Oakland Coliseum (as per their present contractual obligation), he and his buddies would not be attending any home games and would be requesting refunds of their season tickets.  He did suggest that he'd be more than willing to attend road games if possible, though; his rationale was "Mark Davis screwed us; we'll just screw him too!".  One local sportswriters' thought was that the Raiders may, alternately, elect to play their home games in another city (San Antonio was mentioned) or try to work out a 2-year deal at Levi's Stadium (49ers home) until the Vegas facility is opened. 

[jeffandnicole]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/raiders-move-from-oakland-to-las-vegas-approved/


Update for the Raiders to Vegas.

After the NFL owners' vote today, Oakland fans were, at least in interviews with KCBS (AM 740) radio, quite pissed off at the whole thing -- with both Mark Davis (owner) and Oakland city officials bearing the brunt of the anger.  One fellow, who apparently was one of the more vocal end-zone boosters (the ones who regularly dressed up in silver & black "warpaint") stated that if the Raiders elected to play out the next two years at the Oakland Coliseum (as per their present contractual obligation), he and his buddies would not be attending any home games and would be requesting refunds of their season tickets.  He did suggest that he'd be more than willing to attend road games if possible, though; his rationale was "Mark Davis screwed us; we'll just screw him too!".  One local sportswriters' thought was that the Raiders may, alternately, elect to play their home games in another city (San Antonio was mentioned) or try to work out a 2-year deal at Levi's Stadium (49ers home) until the Vegas facility is opened. 

I think every team hears some sort of story like this from their fans, for various reasons.  Without a doubt, he (and his buddies) will be there for every game this year.

[Henry]

I still find the idea of Las Vegas being home to professional sports teams weird. There aren't supposed to be family friendly recreational activities in Las Vegas.

Well, there are the NHL's Golden Knights, who will start play next season.

As for the Montreal thing, I don't think that they'll ever get a team again because of how the Expos abandoned it. I'd rather the A's move to AT&T Park temporarily while a new stadium is built, and let's not forget that by then, the Warriors will be gone from Oakland too.

[SP Cook]

I don't know how "family friendly" a Raiders game can be considered, but more generally, it is a myth that LV is ONLY "sin city".  Yes, it has every form of vice you can imagine.  But it also has plenty of very tame entertainment options, including things aimed at demographics well outside the LV stereotype.  Everybody's money folds the same way.

[spooky]

I still find the idea of Las Vegas being home to professional sports teams weird. There aren't supposed to be family friendly recreational activities in Las Vegas.

Well, there are the NHL's Golden Knights, who will start play next season.

As for the Montreal thing, I don't think that they'll ever get a team again because of how the Expos abandoned it. I'd rather the A's move to AT&T Park temporarily while a new stadium is built, and let's not forget that by then, the Warriors will be gone from Oakland too.

Let's not forget that MLB was complicit in how the Expos abandoned Montreal. The short version: Expos owner Jeffrey Loria demanded that the City of Montreal build him a new stadium. The city played along for a bit but then decided they wouldn't pay, and Loria instead decided he wanted to buy the Florida Marlins. John Henry owned the Marlins at the time, but wanted to buy the Boston Red Sox. Lo and behold Henry buys the Red Sox, Loria buys the Marlins, and the other 29 MLB owners buy the Expos, only to let them rot away before sending them to Washington.

[dvferyance]

I still find the idea of Las Vegas being home to professional sports teams weird. There aren't supposed to be family friendly recreational activities in Las Vegas.

Well, there are the NHL's Golden Knights, who will start play next season.

As for the Montreal thing, I don't think that they'll ever get a team again because of how the Expos abandoned it. I'd rather the A's move to AT&T Park temporarily while a new stadium is built, and let's not forget that by then, the Warriors will be gone from Oakland too.

Why can't Canada just get it's own baseball league? Why do they always have to rely on the US to get something from us?

[sparker]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/raiders-move-from-oakland-to-las-vegas-approved/


Update for the Raiders to Vegas.

After the NFL owners' vote today, Oakland fans were, at least in interviews with KCBS (AM 740) radio, quite pissed off at the whole thing -- with both Mark Davis (owner) and Oakland city officials bearing the brunt of the anger.  One fellow, who apparently was one of the more vocal end-zone boosters (the ones who regularly dressed up in silver & black "warpaint") stated that if the Raiders elected to play out the next two years at the Oakland Coliseum (as per their present contractual obligation), he and his buddies would not be attending any home games and would be requesting refunds of their season tickets.  He did suggest that he'd be more than willing to attend road games if possible, though; his rationale was "Mark Davis screwed us; we'll just screw him too!".  One local sportswriters' thought was that the Raiders may, alternately, elect to play their home games in another city (San Antonio was mentioned) or try to work out a 2-year deal at Levi's Stadium (49ers home) until the Vegas facility is opened. 

I think every team hears some sort of story like this from their fans, for various reasons.  Without a doubt, he (and his buddies) will be there for every game this year.

I don't know about that.  Davis went on the air and specifically stated that while it wasn't what would be ideal for the team, he'd honor any requests for refunds of season tickets.  That $$ (several hundred per home game) would go far toward a trip to L.A. to play the Chargers plus the possibility of Denver and KC games.  Or they could just stay away and use the money to watch the games in their favorite bar.  I attended Raider home games during the strike season of '82 (the owner, a season-ticket holder, was a customer of mine and gave me the tickets because he was pissed at both the team and Al Davis because of the strike) -- and hardcore Raider fans -- at least the ones that I've met -- can be a bit, shall we say, less than rational about team-related matters.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least a quarter of the season tickets are cashed in; whether those folks actually show up at away games is indeed questionable.  The loyalty factor here is with both the team and the city of Oakland; back in '84 when the team left for L.A. for a while, the Raiders corporate office (then right off 880 -- then simply CA 17 -- across the freeway from the Coliseum) was severely graffiti'd soon afterward.  It's a real love/hate relationship between Raider fans and the team management.  We'll just have to see what transpires for the next couple of transition years.

[AsphaltPlanet]

^ Wait to see how upset they are when they ship Oakland's baseball team off to Mexico too...

[nexus73]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/raiders-move-from-oakland-to-las-vegas-approved/


Update for the Raiders to Vegas.

After the NFL owners' vote today, Oakland fans were, at least in interviews with KCBS (AM 740) radio, quite pissed off at the whole thing -- with both Mark Davis (owner) and Oakland city officials bearing the brunt of the anger.  One fellow, who apparently was one of the more vocal end-zone boosters (the ones who regularly dressed up in silver & black "warpaint") stated that if the Raiders elected to play out the next two years at the Oakland Coliseum (as per their present contractual obligation), he and his buddies would not be attending any home games and would be requesting refunds of their season tickets.  He did suggest that he'd be more than willing to attend road games if possible, though; his rationale was "Mark Davis screwed us; we'll just screw him too!".  One local sportswriters' thought was that the Raiders may, alternately, elect to play their home games in another city (San Antonio was mentioned) or try to work out a 2-year deal at Levi's Stadium (49ers home) until the Vegas facility is opened. 

I think every team hears some sort of story like this from their fans, for various reasons.  Without a doubt, he (and his buddies) will be there for every game this year.

I don't know about that.  Davis went on the air and specifically stated that while it wasn't what would be ideal for the team, he'd honor any requests for refunds of season tickets.  That $$ (several hundred per home game) would go far toward a trip to L.A. to play the Chargers plus the possibility of Denver and KC games.  Or they could just stay away and use the money to watch the games in their favorite bar.  I attended Raider home games during the strike season of '82 (the owner, a season-ticket holder, was a customer of mine and gave me the tickets because he was pissed at both the team and Al Davis because of the strike) -- and hardcore Raider fans -- at least the ones that I've met -- can be a bit, shall we say, less than rational about team-related matters.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least a quarter of the season tickets are cashed in; whether those folks actually show up at away games is indeed questionable.  The loyalty factor here is with both the team and the city of Oakland; back in '84 when the team left for L.A. for a while, the Raiders corporate office (then right off 880 -- then simply CA 17 -- across the freeway from the Coliseum) was severely graffiti'd soon afterward.  It's a real love/hate relationship between Raider fans and the team management.  We'll just have to see what transpires for the next couple of transition years.

I grew up as a Raiders fan when they were in the AFL and The Mad Bomber was tossing 'em like crazy.  Remember the Heidi Bowl?  That changed the face of how pro football was broadcast to this very time.  When Oakland moved to LA I called them the LA Traitors and moved my allegiance to the Niners and Hawks.  Since then I have mellowed on that stance and now recognize that Raider Nation really does cover the nation.  The Cowboys aren't America's Team as much as the Raiders are!

So let them move to Viva Las Vegas.  California is not as cool as it used to be anyways.  Heck, neither is Vegas if you also remember the era portrayed in "Casino" but at least it is still the Silver and Black in play no matter where they play. 

YMMV and so will each fan's reactions over this move.

What I predict happens: The fans turn out for home and away games as usual.  The brand is bigger than the city.  As for playing the Chargers in LA, that is going to be interesting since the former San Diegans are stuck with *gasp* a rinky dink soccer stadium seating around 30K.  I bet most of the attendees will be Raiders fans since out of all areas in the USA, they are the most popular in the Southland.

Rick

[sparker]

What I predict happens: The fans turn out for home and away games as usual.  The brand is bigger than the city.  As for playing the Chargers in LA, that is going to be interesting since the former San Diegans are stuck with *gasp* a rinky dink soccer stadium seating around 30K.  I bet most of the attendees will be Raiders fans since out of all areas in the USA, they are the most popular in the Southland.
Rick

I've been to that soccer stadium in Carson (GF's nephew was playing college soccer in a tournament several years ago); it indeed is dinky compared with other potential football venues.  However, I'd be willing to bet that there's plenty of Oakland fans willing to drive the 430 or so miles down there to watch the Charger/Raider games (that much of a real rivalry).  At least with only 30K capacity, the noise level won't begin to approach Arrowhead! 

And I still think a lot of locals will sit out the season up here and hit the bars in Jack London to watch the home games -- for the simple reason that whatever one's drinking it's bound to be cheaper than in the stadium!!!

[gonealookin]

The Raiders can't play three lame-duck seasons in Oakland.

After announcing their move to Nashville, the Houston Oilers planned on playing two lame-duck seasons in the Astrodome.  For the final three home games of the first season, 1996, the announced attendance was 20K, 20K and 15K.  They bailed on Houston a year early and played 1997 in the Liberty Bowl in Memphis.  Attendance there was awful as well, because Memphis doesn't care about a team in transition from Houston to Nashville.  The Nashville stadium still wasn't ready for the 1998 season so the team played that season in Vanderbilt's stadium.  Finally, in 1999, they moved into the new Nashville stadium.  It was a rough three years and I can't see the Raiders or the NFL being willing to duplicate that experience.

Once Mark Davis formally commits to Las Vegas, best option is probably to make whatever minor upgrades are needed to make Sam Boyd Stadium minimally passable as a temporary home and start playing there immediately.

[sparker]

The Raiders can't play three lame-duck seasons in Oakland.

After announcing their move to Nashville, the Houston Oilers planned on playing two lame-duck seasons in the Astrodome.  For the final three home games of the first season, 1996, the announced attendance was 20K, 20K and 15K.  They bailed on Houston a year early and played 1997 in the Liberty Bowl in Memphis.  Attendance there was awful as well, because Memphis doesn't care about a team in transition from Houston to Nashville.  The Nashville stadium still wasn't ready for the 1998 season so the team played that season in Vanderbilt's stadium.  Finally, in 1999, they moved into the new Nashville stadium.  It was a rough three years and I can't see the Raiders or the NFL being willing to duplicate that experience.

Once Mark Davis formally commits to Las Vegas, best option is probably to make whatever minor upgrades are needed to make Sam Boyd Stadium minimally passable as a temporary home and start playing there immediately.

Since Del Rio's whipped the Raiders into shape -- and it'll probably take Shanahan a season or two to do likewise with the Niners, I wouldn't at all be surprised -- if the schedule can be manipulated to accommodate both teams -- that the Raiders end up playing down here at Levi's for the next 2-3 seasons.  If Carr stays healthy, it'd be nice to have a relatively mature team playing here -- setting something of a "benchmark" for the Niners to emulate!     

[SP Cook]

Apparently, the Raiders have an option on the coliseum for 17 and 18, but the city/county loses about $1M/year on the deal, mostly because it costs $450K to convert the place from baseball to football, which they have to do multiple times per year due to the overlapping schedules.  Maybe a bluff but the colisum authority says GTFO after the 18 season.

I think there is too much animosity between the 49ers and the Raiders managements for them to share, even for a year.  There is Sam Boyd Stadium in LV, which is small and outdoors (UNLV can play Pacific Time night games to beat the heat, while the NFL cannot due to TV deals) and Cal and Stanford.  They are even more likely to wedge a football field in the Giants' ballpark (which can be done, although badly) than play with the 49ers.

[nexus73]

Apparently, the Raiders have an option on the coliseum for 17 and 18, but the city/county loses about $1M/year on the deal, mostly because it costs $450K to convert the place from baseball to football, which they have to do multiple times per year due to the overlapping schedules.  Maybe a bluff but the colisum authority says GTFO after the 18 season.

I think there is too much animosity between the 49ers and the Raiders managements for them to share, even for a year.  There is Sam Boyd Stadium in LV, which is small and outdoors (UNLV can play Pacific Time night games to beat the heat, while the NFL cannot due to TV deals) and Cal and Stanford.  They are even more likely to wedge a football field in the Giants' ballpark (which can be done, although badly) than play with the 49ers.

When the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum was getting remodeled many years ago, the Raiders played at Cal's Memorial Stadium.  At least it is a real football field unlike the baseball stadia in the Bay Area and has large capacity. 

Rick

[dvferyance]

The Raiders can't play three lame-duck seasons in Oakland.

After announcing their move to Nashville, the Houston Oilers planned on playing two lame-duck seasons in the Astrodome.  For the final three home games of the first season, 1996, the announced attendance was 20K, 20K and 15K.  They bailed on Houston a year early and played 1997 in the Liberty Bowl in Memphis.  Attendance there was awful as well, because Memphis doesn't care about a team in transition from Houston to Nashville.  The Nashville stadium still wasn't ready for the 1998 season so the team played that season in Vanderbilt's stadium.  Finally, in 1999, they moved into the new Nashville stadium.  It was a rough three years and I can't see the Raiders or the NFL being willing to duplicate that experience.

Once Mark Davis formally commits to Las Vegas, best option is probably to make whatever minor upgrades are needed to make Sam Boyd Stadium minimally passable as a temporary home and start playing there immediately.

That is what I was thinking too. It's just not a good option. If Sam Boyd Stadium worked for the XFL a year why couldn't it work for the Raiders a couple seasons as well? Nobody in Oakland will go watch the Raiders next season becasue they know the team is leaving and they will be mad at the owner for moving them.

[SP Cook]

If Sam Boyd Stadium worked for the XFL a year why couldn't it work for the Raiders a couple seasons as well?

The XFL's season was February to the first week of April.  They played mostly Saturday nights at 5 PT (they played one game on Sunday afternoon).  Average high in February and March is in the 60s.

The NFL's season is, of course, September-January, with exhibition games in August.   The average high in August is 102, although they can play at exhibiton games at night if they want.  However, the regular season TV deal requires all games start at either 1 or 4:20 ET (10AM, which is extremely rare, PT or 1:20 PT) unless selected for one of the three night games which are 8:20ET/5:20 PT,  with sunset in LV not being until 7:45 in early September and 6:15 in late October.

Sam Boyd Stadium is mostly aluminium bleachers.  It is just too darn hot.  At best the Raiders would have to play the first six or seven weeks on the road, maybe one "night" (5:20 local) game.  That fouls up everybody else's schedule too.