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US 50 Illinois Resolution

Started by 3467, June 01, 2012, 05:07:33 PM

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3467

http://www.wjbdradio.com/?f=news_single&id=33750

Once upon a time a legilative action on a road moved a road out of fictional highways now its the opposite. I feel liek a rant about our utterly non functional brain dead political system and that there have been good road funding ideas here and so on.............but whatever


mukade

How busy is US 50? Whenever I have driven the eastern end, it seemed very empty.

hbelkins

Is US 50 that heavily traveled? I drove the length of the route across Illinois on my way back from the St. Louis meet in 2008 and did not notice a great deal of traffic, or a great need to have the route expanded to four lanes. It was a fairly easy drive on the existing two-lane, mostly flat and straight. There has to be a reason that the section west of Carlyle, where there is already grade work done for four lanes and there are bridges with no approach roads, has never been expanded even though it would be the easiest section to do so.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

3467

Actually IDOT is studying the section between Olney and Indiana about 20 miles .
There is a history there is a lot of 4 lane ROW because first it was the I-64 corridor then it was made a supplemental freeway corridor. I think there have been some posts on its history and the current study.
This resolution just struck me as silly
Question to those who have driven it....How wide is the existing pavement? Maybe the lines could be repainted for some passing lanes (See 3 lane road discussion under general) added to mollify the locals
That would assume IDOT had any sense

Revive 755

Quote from: mukade on June 01, 2012, 10:03:55 PM
How busy is US 50? Whenever I have driven the eastern end, it seemed very empty.

Generally low enough that four lanes would not be warranted except possibly - using around 8,000 as the threshold for four lanes - the section between I-64 and Aviston or the section from US 51 to somewhere east of Salem.

http://www.dot.il.gov/trafficmaps/adt_statewide.pdf

mukade

That sounds right. It is busier toward St. Louis for sure. Also, the easternmost 7.5 miles or so of US 50 are already freeway in Illinois as are the westernmost couple of miles in Indiana.

When I think of the Bishop Ford at Stony Island where it goes down to four lanes, and then see plans like this (or ones like for Illinois 336), it just doesn't make sense to me.

kphoger

When I lived in SoIL, my work route rarely got me that far northeast, but I recall 50 being busy-ish around Lawrenceville and Olney; there's a Wal-Mart DC out there which draws its share of truck traffic, also.  From Olney to Flora it's not too bad, but sees steady traffic.  Around Flora there's a lot of local traffic; I would love to see the stoplight at Main Street replaced with grade separation, and maybe a roundabout at the junction of 45 North toward Louisville.  Traffic isn't too bad from Flora to Salem, but I always hated the slow-down of driving through downtown Salem; bypass?  Salem to Sandoval is horribly clogged, but I think they've done some work out there in the last decade, so things might have improved.  Westward from Sandoval, I have very little experience.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

SSF

it's pointless for the 10 miles from Lawrenceville to Vincennes to be 4-lane (really the four lane should end at the 41 North interchange), I see almost no legitimate reason to four lane it all the way across the state, except once it got close to Lebanon. there are no roads in that part of Illinois(SE) that need to be four laned for any reason, except to bypass towns. 

Alps

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 01, 2012, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: mukade on June 01, 2012, 10:03:55 PM
How busy is US 50? Whenever I have driven the eastern end, it seemed very empty.

Generally low enough that four lanes would not be warranted except possibly - using around 8,000 as the threshold for four lanes - the section between I-64 and Aviston or the section from US 51 to somewhere east of Salem.

http://www.dot.il.gov/trafficmaps/adt_statewide.pdf

8,000 AADT is enough for one lane in a single direction, let alone two lanes. Four lanes need twice that before you'd really consider widening.

Revive 755

Quote from: Steve on June 02, 2012, 04:15:32 AM
8,000 AADT is enough for one lane in a single direction, let alone two lanes. Four lanes need twice that before you'd really consider widening.

Maybe on just general capacity, but how does that work for passing/percent time spent following?

Besides, if one was to wait for the AADT to get up towards 16,000 before really considering widening, by the time all the environmental stuff, design, land acquisition, and funding allocation was done, the AADT could be much greater and safety issues could have developed.

I would say that IDOT should at least identify a preferred corridor for US 50 between I-64 and I-57 and get it protected.  This section has the long term potential to take some traffic off I-64 and I-70 (sure they don't look bad now, but I'm sure someone never thought I-70 across Missouri would become problematic) and has the possibility of becoming a higher volume tourist road if Carlyle Lake ever becomes more popular.

dirtroad66

This route has quite a bit of truck traffic and the state economic people in trying to keep businesses from leaving the state are pushing this area for relocation from chicagoland, due to cheap land.

mukade

I can understand the desire, but am uncertain that it will have much impact on it. Vincennes, Indiana just to the east has benefit of a major north-south divided highway and will have decent access to I-69. Taxes are lower there, but it is still losing population. I personally like the area, but am just saying widening a highway is not necessarily a catalyst for growth.

dirtroad66

I agree, the "build it they will come" methodology is not a good strategy. 

kharvey10

Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2012, 11:55:28 PM
When I lived in SoIL, my work route rarely got me that far northeast, but I recall 50 being busy-ish around Lawrenceville and Olney; there's a Wal-Mart DC out there which draws its share of truck traffic, also.  From Olney to Flora it's not too bad, but sees steady traffic.  Around Flora there's a lot of local traffic; I would love to see the stoplight at Main Street replaced with grade separation, and maybe a roundabout at the junction of 45 North toward Louisville.  Traffic isn't too bad from Flora to Salem, but I always hated the slow-down of driving through downtown Salem; bypass?  Salem to Sandoval is horribly clogged, but I think they've done some work out there in the last decade, so things might have improved.  Westward from Sandoval, I have very little experience.
Sandoval to Carlyle is very much clogged, it gets hillier the closer to Carlyle you get with frequent no-passing zones and at least three big curves.  Toss in a major RR crossing at Shattuc Road, another right through the center of Sandoval, and a third in Salem just for good measure -- all three of them heavily used by trains.  Shattuc Road itself is a busy intersection - most people use it to cut between Carlyle and Centralia and it leads to a major junior college and the state slammer.  West of Carlyle its on a newer alignment that is more of a modified super two, but most of the locals prefer to use the old alignment.  In O'fallon and Fairview heights just for good measure, the old alignment is openly referred as Route 50 by everyone.

3467


mukade

Quote from: 3467 on August 02, 2012, 06:54:17 PM
I wonder if Indiana dropping its long range plan would have an effect on this route

Did Indiana have a long range plan for US 50 other than areas east of I-65?

tdindy88

I'd never heard of any plan for widening US 50 other than from Seymour to North Vernon. Probably not too much on topic, but personally, I think the highway could be widened from Washington east to Loogootee and then from Brownstown northeast to Seymour, but that would be about it. The stretch from Loogootee east all the way to Brownstown features way too many hills to make widening an option.

mukade

Agreed. They did widen US 50 a mile eastward thanks to I-69, but that was a bonus.

I think there has been a study to reroute it east from North Vernon on a new route back to existing 50. I don't think it is funded and building that anytime soon is doubtful.

3467

I recall seeing it mentioned in an indiana 2030 document. I was hoping the Hossier experts here would set me straight on this and you did Thanks
Id IDOT had offered a few passing lanes they wouldnt be looking stupid now but then again it wouldnt be IDOT

mukade

Quote from: 3467 on August 02, 2012, 09:36:38 PM
I recall seeing it mentioned in an indiana 2030 document. I was hoping the Hossier experts here would set me straight on this and you did Thanks
Id IDOT had offered a few passing lanes they wouldnt be looking stupid now but then again it wouldnt be IDOT

Other than Vincennes to Washington and west of Cincinnati, I don't think any significant improvement was ever really planned for US 50 in Indiana - even when they said it was after I-64's route was changed.

Actually, though, with I-69 going in, a US 50 improvement in Illinois makes more sense because it would connect nicely with Indy and points east and north. That new highway is much better than a US 50 widening east of Washington in Indiana from a Lawrenceville or Olney (for example) point of view.

3467

http://www.us50project.com/index.htm

Found the IDOT webpage. I know there has been discussion of US 50 as the original 64 route .It was then added to the Illinois Supplemenatl Freeway system and a 2 lane section with 4 lane ROW was built between Lebanon and Carlyle There is some ROW east of 57 and a number of spot improvements have been made
It seems to me thi is the most economically useful . I compared teh St Louis Cincy milage and there was much difference between 70,64 or 50

adt1982

Quote from: 3467 on August 02, 2012, 10:26:48 PM
http://www.us50project.com/index.htm

Found the IDOT webpage. I know there has been discussion of US 50 as the original 64 route .It was then added to the Illinois Supplemenatl Freeway system and a 2 lane section with 4 lane ROW was built between Lebanon and Carlyle There is some ROW east of 57 and a number of spot improvements have been made
It seems to me thi is the most economically useful . I compared teh St Louis Cincy milage and there was much difference between 70,64 or 50

Your last line was a bit mangled.  Did you mean there was NOT much difference in mileage?

St. Louis to Cincinnati mileage:

I-64/I-71: 359
I-70/I-74: 349
US 50: 345

3467

It was. It should have had a "not"
I did not realize it was only 4 miles . For that matter 14 is not much either for a 350 mile distance. I think that is why IDOT picked a segment that could produce some economic benefit.

edwaleni

US 50 across Illinois has a tortured history.

The 4 lane expressway from Vincennes to just west of Lawrenceville was mostly driven by the large oil presence in the area and the traffic it created in downtown Vincennes in the late 1950's. So they created that bypass. It also supported the Lawrenceville-Vincennes Airport which used to have regular passenger service to support the refinery workers and management.  That road is in pretty bad shape now and is ripe for a reconstruction and is way past its expiration date.  The refinery is long gone and the airport was reconfigured for private aviation only.

US 50 ROW between Vincennes and Xenia already supports an expressway format as it was all acquired after WWII.  Between Xenia and Carlye, US 50 pretty much follows its pre-WWII ROW except for some widened parts in a few places.

The planned expressway between Carlye to O'Fallon is a bit of a long story.  The land was acquired and the construction was actually funded in FY1977, but the money was diverted by Big Jim Thompson to help support the effort to build I-39 between Rockford and Bloomington as part of winning the Mitsubishi Auto Plant deal. (ahem, now closed) That is why you see completed bridges and overpasses, but no second set of pavement. IDOT is current reviving the environmental plan as the old one has expired and see if they can get the rest of it funded and finished.

Yes, many, many moons ago, Congressman Terry Bruce (R-Olney) attempted to sway the Interstate Highway route for southern Illinois using US 50 as the base road. Obviously that failed as the I-70 route had already been laid down and US50 was just to close and didn't service Evansville, which was a critical junction in the US highway plan.

While there is no proof, it is believed that to get Bruce's support for the I-64 route, Olney instead got funding for a television station, (WUSI) a PBS affiliate run remotely by Southern Illinois University's WSIU. People to this day still wonder how a town of only some 8300 has a TV station.

Since the oil economy that propped up southeastern Illinois since the 1920's began to fade out in the 1980's as the wells began to dry up, the area has been in a long term reversion back to a basic agricultural and small manufacturing economy. This has been reflected in the traffic volumes on US 50 on the east side of Illinois.

The west end of US 50 work to be built out to support what they thought was going to be significant traffic to reach Carlyle Lake when the studies were performed in 1973. That is why the newer ROW ends abruptly north of town.  Eventually they plan to extend the new ROW near the dam past Carlyle. The oil shocks of the 70's changed the traffic patterns considerably and that is why there was no shame in diverting the funding.

As for the everything in between, the traffic on US50 just didn't warrant any major work unless it was to bypass a town (like one planned for Salem). But with the economy changing in the 80's in this part of Illinois and the loss of political influence in Congress, meant that US50 was going to go into a deep freeze for a few years.

Now move to today. IDOT is now looking at funding requirements to complete the Carlyle-O'Fallon link.  CSX railroad shut down the Illinois Sub last fall from Caseyville to Flora which parallels US 50 across the entire state.  While the railroad had little online business (none west of Salem), it is believed that there will be little movement to trucks.  The new Walmart distribution facility in Olney was built without a 4 lane commitment, so while they use that as a justification to support an extension from Lawrenceville to just west of Olney, the road really needs to be redone anyway, The real issue is can Illinois afford it?

The wild card for US 50 will be oil fracking. There are significant reserves between Lawrenceville and Salem for the oil the wells couldn't reach from 1923 to 1983. Illinois has set out the fracking rules, but oil prices have plummeted.  When prices rebound, there will be significant exploration again along the US 50 corridor. Especially around Olney, Noble, Lawrenceville and Salem. If it does take, they will require lots of materials and with much of the rail pulled out, this will require trucks. And this will drive the US 50 upgrades in the future.




adt1982

CSX hasn't pulled any of the Illinois Sub rails yet.  They are only cut in two places.



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