Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[jwolfer]

So having read through all of this as much as I can without my brain oozing from my ears, and being very, very grateful that - as far as I know - this isn't a thing in Florida, I think I understand the meaning of the FYA, which leads to my question...

How does this signal phase differ from the ordinary green ball phase of a "doghouse" left turn signal head? Because from the explanations and descriptions ("yield to oncoming traffic and pedistrians, opposing traffic has a green"), it really seems like it doesn't.

FYA has been around Jacksonville, Gainesville, Orlando and Daytona

LGMS428

[epzik8]

I saw my first-ever one today in Clearwater, Florida.

[realjd]

They've been used here in Brevard for a few years now. They're the standard for any new construction or signal refresh, along with the yellow reflective borders on the backplate around the black signal.

[SignBridge]

Today I saw my first FYA installed by New York State DOT's Region-10 in Long Island's Nassau County. Intersection of NY 25A (Northern Blvd.) and NY 107 (Cedar Swamp Rd.) V-e-r-y  i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g........

[cl94]

NYSDOT Region 1 put up a bunch as part of the US 9 reconstruction in Lake George. Given that several of these intersections used to be permissive-only, the change is welcomed.

[SignBridge]

So wouldn't ya' know cl94, that I was so intrigued with the flashing yellow arrows that I forgot to note if the new signal heads were green or black. Hard to see them anyway behind the fancy backplates with yellow edge-striping.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

So wouldn't ya' know cl94, that I was so intrigued with the flashing yellow arrows that I forgot to note if the new signal heads were green or black. Hard to see them anyway behind the fancy backplates with yellow edge-striping.

They are black and look very sleek, even though I'm not a huge fan of the backplates. I alsp notice there is still the annoying split phasing on 107

https://goo.gl/maps/LbTekvHjJF92

How do the FYAs on 25a operate? Are they always protected-permissive?

[SignBridge]

Hmmm..........in the photo, those heads and visors look dark green to me, but I'll take a careful look whenever I travel that way again.

Yes, the Northern Blvd. signals are protected/permissive. Interestingly, after the green arrow, it goes to steady-yellow-arrow, then steady-red-arrow, then FYA. I don't quite get why it just can't go from green-arrow to FYA.

Any idea why Rt. 107 is split-phased?

[jakeroot]

Interestingly, after the green arrow, it goes to steady-yellow-arrow, then steady-red-arrow, then FYA. I don't quite get why it just can't go from green-arrow to FYA.

That's normal FYA operation. The MUTCD requires the signal to return to red before going permissive.

Seattle has several FYAs in operation that skip the red phase. No idea why they are programmed to work like this. Here's a video that I made that shows one in use:

https://youtu.be/dmoD0aX4wJM

[MNHighwayMan]

Interestingly, after the green arrow, it goes to steady-yellow-arrow, then steady-red-arrow, then FYA. I don't quite get why it just can't go from green-arrow to FYA.

That's normal FYA operation. The MUTCD requires the signal to return to red before going permissive.

Seattle has several FYAs in operation that skip the red phase. No idea why they are programmed to work like this. Here's a video that I made that shows one in use:

Is there a minimum length for the red? I've seen a few here in Des Moines that can't be more than two seconds long.

[tradephoric]

Interestingly, after the green arrow, it goes to steady-yellow-arrow, then steady-red-arrow, then FYA. I don't quite get why it just can't go from green-arrow to FYA.

That's normal FYA operation. The MUTCD requires the signal to return to red before going permissive.

Seattle has several FYAs in operation that skip the red phase. No idea why they are programmed to work like this. Here's a video that I made that shows one in use:

Is there a minimum length for the red? I've seen a few here in Des Moines that can't be more than two seconds long.

The MUTCD doesn't specifically require the use of a red clearance interval.  There's only guidance that says "the yellow change interval should be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released".

[PColumbus73]

Interestingly, after the green arrow, it goes to steady-yellow-arrow, then steady-red-arrow, then FYA. I don't quite get why it just can't go from green-arrow to FYA.

That's normal FYA operation. The MUTCD requires the signal to return to red before going permissive.

Seattle has several FYAs in operation that skip the red phase. No idea why they are programmed to work like this. Here's a video that I made that shows one in use:

Is there a minimum length for the red? I've seen a few here in Des Moines that can't be more than two seconds long.

The MUTCD doesn't specifically require the use of a red clearance interval.  There's only guidance that says "the yellow change interval should be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released".

Here in South Carolina, most drivers disregard the red light when it's going permissive. A cop could rack up red light violations easy.

[jakeroot]

The MUTCD doesn't specifically require the use of a red clearance interval.  There's only guidance that says "the yellow change interval should be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released".

Thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression that it was a "shall" guidance. That said, even if it was a "shall", local DOTs could still remove the all-red phase (because they don't always follow the MUTCD), correct?

[Mdcastle]

Hennepin County, MN is trying a new thing where there's a 3 second delay on the start of a permissive only phase before the red arrow turns to flashing yellow. This lets conflicting traffic that has the ROW assert itself and discourages a left turner from stomping on the gas and trying to beat them. Same idea as the red clearance.

Controllers have the option of extending the flashing yellow arrow a couple of seconds after the through movements turn red to allow stuck turners to clear the intersection in a safe manner, but this isn't used, presumably because the additional traffic delays don't justify the safety benefit.

[jakeroot]

Controllers have the option of extending the flashing yellow arrow a couple of seconds after the through movements turn red to allow stuck turners to clear the intersection in a safe manner, but this isn't used, presumably because the additional traffic delays don't justify the safety benefit.

That seems like a pretty good idea, but from a driver's perspective, it seems odd to be facing stopped traffic while simultaneously facing a flashing yellow arrow. I'd rather see longer all-red phases. A better idea might be to just lag left turns where there's a flashing yellow arrow. It's not appropriate for all situations, but it seems to work well in most instances that I've seen it used.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Yes, the Northern Blvd. signals are protected/permissive. Interestingly, after the green arrow, it goes to steady-yellow-arrow, then steady-red-arrow, then FYA. I don't quite get why it just can't go from green-arrow to FYA.

Any idea why Rt. 107 is split-phased?

So no protected-only phasing during certain times like rush hour? It operates just like the old signals?

Hennepin County, MN is trying a new thing where there's a 3 second delay on the start of a permissive only phase before the red arrow turns to flashing yellow. This lets conflicting traffic that has the ROW assert itself and discourages a left turner from stomping on the gas and trying to beat them. Same idea as the red clearance.

That is a good idea when there is heavy traffic, though with a red clearance interval of about 2 seconds between the left turners and opposing thru traffic, maybe the delay should be more like 5 to 7 seconds, less when opposing thru traffic is not present.

[cl94]

NY 107 is split-phased because of the straight/left lane NB. Can't have a dual left with one of those lefts being in an option lane unless you have split-phasing.

WB Northern Blvd used to be permissive-only, so it does NOT operate like the old signals. That being said, NYSDOT is moving toward FYAs for all PPLT situations.

[PColumbus73]

In North Carolina, I've been seeing NCDOT using the FYA to replace the right turn doghouse. In the Wilmington area, the 3-section FYA seems to be popping up for right turn movements. In the Fayetteville area, I've seen the 4-section FYA used at dual right turn lanes on GSV.

[rickmastfan67]

Guess Georgia likes to use the doghouse for the flashing yellow.  Saw this on a video about the I-85 bridge collapse.  Jump to the 1m 30s mark to see it.

https://youtu.be/w8t7OrIJG48?t=1m30s

[lordsutch]

First flashing yellow doghouse I've seen in Georgia. Might be an Atlanta thing.

[cl94]

We have known about NYCDOT's FYAs for a while now, but I saw a new variation today: a flashing slanted yellow arrow.

[SignBridge]

The photo in the link is Queens Blvd. eastbound at about 64th St, just before the B-Q Expwy (I-278) Apparently NYC has found some interesting applications for the FYA, besides the usual left-turn scenario. In Manhattan, at 7th Ave. and 31st St. (right outside Penn Station) it's used to warn right-turning vehicles to watch the pedestrians in the crosswalk.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

The photo in the link is Queens Blvd. eastbound at about 64th St, just before the B-Q Expwy (I-278) Apparently NYC has found some interesting applications for the FYA, besides the usual left-turn scenario. In Manhattan, at 7th Ave. and 31st St. (right outside Penn Station) it's used to warn right-turning vehicles to watch the pedestrians in the crosswalk.

That particular signal has been there for about a year, it protects the signallized bike lane.

There is an exact copy of that set up a couple of miles down the road by Woodhaven blvd.

A lot of FYA setups have popped up over the past few years in NYC. In addition to warming for a crosswalk or bike lane, they give a head start to peds or bike by holding turning traffic for a few seconds after thru traffic gets a green.

[steviep24]

In Rochester, NY NYSDOT Region 4 installed new signals at NY252 (Jefferson Rd.) and Brighton-Henrietta TL Rd. which features a FYA right turn signal in addition to left turn FYA's. R4 has already installed several left turn FYA's but this is the first right turn FYA I've seen.

[Mdcastle]

Is that the first flashing yellow arrow doghouse spotted outside Minnesota and Wisconsin? Looks like no exclusive turn lanes are provided, hence the use.