Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

NYC doesn't sign flashing yellow arrows. Granted most FYAs in NYC are not of the 4 light kind, but are the 3 light permissive kind used in tandem with bike lanes or LPIs or turns with ped conflicts.

[mrsman]

NYC doesn't sign flashing yellow arrows. Granted most FYAs in NYC are not of the 4 light kind, but are the 3 light permissive kind used in tandem with bike lanes or LPIs or turns with ped conflicts.

Are there any FYAs in NYC that are used in the more traditional sense as a permissive turn against opposing vehicular traffic?  In most areas of the city that I transverse those types of signals are handled with doghouses.  I would imagine that a traditional FYA would have a sign, because it seems ingrained in NYC that the flashing yellow arrow means to watch for bikes and peds.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

NYC doesn't sign flashing yellow arrows. Granted most FYAs in NYC are not of the 4 light kind, but are the 3 light permissive kind used in tandem with bike lanes or LPIs or turns with ped conflicts.

Are there any FYAs in NYC that are used in the more traditional sense as a permissive turn against opposing vehicular traffic?  In most areas of the city that I transverse those types of signals are handled with doghouses.  I would imagine that a traditional FYA would have a sign, because it seems ingrained in NYC that the flashing yellow arrow means to watch for bikes and peds.

A recent installation, but 57th St eastbound at the Queensboro Bridge upper level ramp was converted to such an operation. It has no sign.

It was previously protected only.

The one that hangs from the mast is not a 4 stack FYA, but has the green and fllashing yellow arrow side by side left to right, with the solid yellow and red arrows above the flashing arrow.

[jakeroot]

I would imagine that a traditional [NYC] FYA would have a sign, because it seems ingrained in NYC that the flashing yellow arrow means to watch for bikes and peds.

Which reminds me. In the vast majority of jurisdictions, a flashing yellow arrow indicates that you must yield to vehicles (in addition to peds and bikes, but mostly cars). In NYC, thus far, it has been entirely reserved for situations in which you must yield to a bike or pedestrian. I can't help but think that it might lose its special meaning if applied to left turns across traffic, etc.

That said, I don't see 5-section PPLTs continuing to be a part of a traffic engineer's toolbox. FYAs have a clear upperhand in terms of their ability to handle just about any type of phase you want to throw at it (lead, lag, protected-only TOD, etc). 5-section signals still have a place (leading left at option lanes, right turn filters, etc) but I suspect most left turn 5-section signals will eventually convert to FYAs.

[US 89]

I would imagine that a traditional [NYC] FYA would have a sign, because it seems ingrained in NYC that the flashing yellow arrow means to watch for bikes and peds.

Which reminds me. In the vast majority of jurisdictions, a flashing yellow arrow indicates that you must yield to vehicles (in addition to peds and bikes, but mostly cars). In NYC, thus far, it has been entirely reserved for situations in which you must yield to a bike or pedestrian. I can't help but think that it might lose its special meaning if applied to left turns across traffic, etc.

I have seen FYA used for only bike/ped yield purposes on a right turn, but never a left. Left FYAs, where I've seen them, are always for crossing oncoming traffic.

Also, when I was in St. Louis recently I saw a doghouse with a sign that said "left on arrow only" which was quite odd to me. How does this work?

[jakeroot]

I would imagine that a traditional [NYC] FYA would have a sign, because it seems ingrained in NYC that the flashing yellow arrow means to watch for bikes and peds.

Which reminds me. In the vast majority of jurisdictions, a flashing yellow arrow indicates that you must yield to vehicles (in addition to peds and bikes, but mostly cars). In NYC, thus far, it has been entirely reserved for situations in which you must yield to a bike or pedestrian. I can't help but think that it might lose its special meaning if applied to left turns across traffic, etc.

I have seen FYA used for only bike/ped yield purposes on a right turn, but never a left. Left FYAs, where I've seen them, are always for crossing oncoming traffic.

Well, in theory, a left-facing FYA indicates that you must yield to cars, but also to peds with a walk sign, and any bikes that might be utilising a crosswalk or a lane of traffic.

Also, when I was in St. Louis recently I saw a doghouse with a sign that said "left on arrow only" which was quite odd to me. How does this work?

This was actually just discussed in another thread. Check it out: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20530.msg2236981#msg2236981

tl;dr -- the signals aren't MUTCD compliant, and you have to wait for the next green arrow, as the signal suggests. There's quite a few of these in Chicago as well. Yes, they're misleading.

[freebrickproductions]

I know Huntsville only uses the 3-section FYAs in downtown where one road goes from two-way to one-way, and the traffic heading against the one-way has to turn onto another one-way. Here are the ones in use:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7320197,-86.5874333,3a,15y,72.97h,96.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbsnAWlQpkPAQcZq2rIO2Mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7304121,-86.585882,3a,41.2y,48.17h,111.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDSFAhHhAWawCKn2xu9kquA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.729626,-86.5852755,3a,16.5y,293.85h,111.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIWUMHXmZafuNgo1gvIbAYw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7306241,-86.5832226,3a,22.6y,242.45h,107.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saOjnV1ipCsf_A5iZfLll7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The reason those signals got the FYA treatment, according to the director of the Traffic Engineering Department, Dan Sanders, is that back when they had green balls, people could see the green balls and think they could go straight and/or left/right even though they couldn't, and installing green arrows would've conflicted with the pedestrian signals (which cycle with the signals). So the FYA signals were the only way to go. I do agree with him as well, as at the intersection of West Side Square and South Side Square, I once saw a person head straight up West Side Square from Madison Street, against the flow of traffic. And that was before the FYA conversion of the signals, IIRC. I got it on video as well.

There used to be another set at Clinton Avenue and Greene Street, but those were changed back to RYG signals after Clinton Avenue got entirely converted back to 2-way through the downtown. Google Street View still shows them though:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7323536,-86.5845136,3a,26.8y,253.13h,105.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTlQwjILLKHpLRbW17yEhSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[thenetwork]

Just came across a Left FYA on US-160 East near Pagosa Springs with a NO TURN ON RED sign.  That one seemed weird.

[US 89]

Just came across a Left FYA on US-160 East near Pagosa Springs with a NO TURN ON RED sign.  That one seemed weird.

Do you remember exactly where this light is?

[thenetwork]

Just came across a Left FYA on US-160 East near Pagosa Springs with a NO TURN ON RED sign.  That one seemed weird.

Do you remember exactly where this light is?

It's on EB US-160 between Durango and  Pagosa Springs.  I went through  there yesterday, and I didn't really take note of the location, but when I hit this thread, the fresh memory cam back to mind.

To make it easier, im pretty sure it was either along the US-160/US-550 multiplex just outside Durango or on the far west edge of Pagosa on US-160.  The NTOR sign was immediately to the right of the FYA.

[US 89]

Just came across a Left FYA on US-160 East near Pagosa Springs with a NO TURN ON RED sign.  That one seemed weird.

Do you remember exactly where this light is?

It's on EB US-160 between Durango and  Pagosa Springs.  I went through  there yesterday, and I didn't really take note of the location, but when I hit this thread, the fresh memory cam back to mind.

To make it easier, im pretty sure it was either along the US-160/US-550 multiplex just outside Durango or on the far west edge of Pagosa on US-160.  The NTOR sign was immediately to the right of the FYA.

I found it, at US 160/550 and Dominguez Dr south of Durango.
I have no idea why that sign is there. It wouldn't even apply to the right turn, since the right turn movements are channelized.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

I would imagine that a traditional [NYC] FYA would have a sign, because it seems ingrained in NYC that the flashing yellow arrow means to watch for bikes and peds.

Which reminds me. In the vast majority of jurisdictions, a flashing yellow arrow indicates that you must yield to vehicles (in addition to peds and bikes, but mostly cars). In NYC, thus far, it has been entirely reserved for situations in which you must yield to a bike or pedestrian. I can't help but think that it might lose its special meaning if applied to left turns across traffic, etc.

Aside from my post above, a good number of FYAs both left and right in NYC are used for something called a split Leading Pedestrian Interval (LPI).

This means when the light turns green, thru traffic gets a green, but turning traffic is held with a red arrrow for up to 7 seconds, while the adjacent bike lane or crosswalk gets their go signal. After that, the FYA is displayed to turning traffic.

This application was not possible before FYAs without first holding all traffic.

Drivers here generally understand the meaning, I do not think FYAs will be watered down the way NYC uses them once they are more commonplace in NYS/NJ/CT

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

I know Huntsville only uses the 3-section FYAs in downtown where one road goes from two-way to one-way, and the traffic heading against the one-way has to turn onto another one-way. Here are the ones in use:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7320197,-86.5874333,3a,15y,72.97h,96.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbsnAWlQpkPAQcZq2rIO2Mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7304121,-86.585882,3a,41.2y,48.17h,111.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDSFAhHhAWawCKn2xu9kquA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.729626,-86.5852755,3a,16.5y,293.85h,111.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIWUMHXmZafuNgo1gvIbAYw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7306241,-86.5832226,3a,22.6y,242.45h,107.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saOjnV1ipCsf_A5iZfLll7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The reason those signals got the FYA treatment, according to the director of the Traffic Engineering Department, Dan Sanders, is that back when they had green balls, people could see the green balls and think they could go straight and/or left/right even though they couldn't, and installing green arrows would've conflicted with the pedestrian signals (which cycle with the signals). So the FYA signals were the only way to go. I do agree with him as well, as at the intersection of West Side Square and South Side Square, I once saw a person head straight up West Side Square from Madison Street, against the flow of traffic. And that was before the FYA conversion of the signals, IIRC. I got it on video as well.

There used to be another set at Clinton Avenue and Greene Street, but those were changed back to RYG signals after Clinton Avenue got entirely converted back to 2-way through the downtown. Google Street View still shows them though:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7323536,-86.5845136,3a,26.8y,253.13h,105.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTlQwjILLKHpLRbW17yEhSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do the signals in the 3rd link alternately flash instead of flashing together? Or is the left one just not working?

[freebrickproductions]

I know Huntsville only uses the 3-section FYAs in downtown where one road goes from two-way to one-way, and the traffic heading against the one-way has to turn onto another one-way. Here are the ones in use:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7320197,-86.5874333,3a,15y,72.97h,96.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbsnAWlQpkPAQcZq2rIO2Mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7304121,-86.585882,3a,41.2y,48.17h,111.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDSFAhHhAWawCKn2xu9kquA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.729626,-86.5852755,3a,16.5y,293.85h,111.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIWUMHXmZafuNgo1gvIbAYw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7306241,-86.5832226,3a,22.6y,242.45h,107.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saOjnV1ipCsf_A5iZfLll7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The reason those signals got the FYA treatment, according to the director of the Traffic Engineering Department, Dan Sanders, is that back when they had green balls, people could see the green balls and think they could go straight and/or left/right even though they couldn't, and installing green arrows would've conflicted with the pedestrian signals (which cycle with the signals). So the FYA signals were the only way to go. I do agree with him as well, as at the intersection of West Side Square and South Side Square, I once saw a person head straight up West Side Square from Madison Street, against the flow of traffic. And that was before the FYA conversion of the signals, IIRC. I got it on video as well.

There used to be another set at Clinton Avenue and Greene Street, but those were changed back to RYG signals after Clinton Avenue got entirely converted back to 2-way through the downtown. Google Street View still shows them though:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7323536,-86.5845136,3a,26.8y,253.13h,105.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTlQwjILLKHpLRbW17yEhSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do the signals in the 4th link alternately flash instead of flashing together? Or is the left one just not working?

FTFY. They flash together. Likely one signal was taken with an image when the arrow was off and the other was taken with an image when the arrow was on, just micro-seconds apart.

[JKRhodes]

The FYA for left turns has gained a considerable amount of usage in Tucson. Problem is, the FYA was in use prior to its most recent iteration, so it takes on several slightly different meanings depending on the application:

FYA, Left Turn, 4 signal Head: Yield to Oncoming Traffic, as many cities are now implementing

FYA, Left Turn, 5 Signal Head or 3 Signal Head: Proceed, Yield to Pedestrians, Tucson's had this one in place for years

FYA, Right Turn, 5 Signal Head: Cross Street has a green arrow to turn left or Make U-Turns. Yield to U-turns. this has also been going on some 20 years.

[plain]

An example of a right turn FYA. This is in Norfolk, Va

https://goo.gl/maps/weCxGD57tBo

Obviously it's because of the Tide LRT running next to Brambleton Ave (US 58/VA 337). Virginia is a state that enforces a no turn on a red arrow, but as an extra measure there is a "No Turn On Red" sign that lights up when a train is about to cross the street

[Revive 755]

An example of a right turn FYA. This is in Norfolk, Va

https://goo.gl/maps/weCxGD57tBo

Given how far the crosswalk is from the start of the right turn, and that it is a bit unexpected on the other side of the track, I would think they'd want more signage marking the crosswalk - at least a 'turning vehicles yield to peds' next to the right turn head on the mast arm.  There was an intersection in northeastern Illinois that recently went to right on green arrow only due to issues with the crosswalk being quite a ways from the start of the turn.

[jakeroot]

A five-section left-facing flashing yellow arrow has popped up in Federal Way, WA. While the opposing through movements overlap, the left turns don't. When the pedestrian signal is activated, both directions show red orbs with left-facing flashing yellow arrows (so left turns can go, but through must wait -- right on red is okay). When the pedestrian signal is not activated, or when the pedestrian phase has ended but one of the directions still has a line of cars, the green orb and green arrow come on simultaneously. The signal runs split-phased when the flashing yellow arrow is deactivated.

From top to bottom, the signals are red orb, yellow orb, green orb, yellow arrow, bi-modal green/yellow arrow.

https://youtu.be/jEVhAABx0q4

[US 89]

From top to bottom, the signals are green orb, yellow orb, red orb, yellow arrow, bi-modal green/yellow arrow.

https://youtu.be/jEVhAABx0q4

I assume you meant red orb, yellow orb, green orb, yellow arrow, bi-modal green/yellow arrow?

That's a very interesting design. Never seen anything like it.

[jakeroot]

From top to bottom, the signals are green orb, yellow orb, red orb, yellow arrow, bi-modal green/yellow arrow.

I assume you meant red orb, yellow orb, green orb, yellow arrow, bi-modal green/yellow arrow?

That's a very interesting design. Never seen anything like it.

Yes, thank you.

It's a very unique signal. I've seen signals with similar operation in the midwest (in this thread, I believe) of 5-section FYAs, but I've never seen one utilised quite this way before.

[roadfro]

^^ I'm trying to understand the purpose of holding the through traffic but allowing permitted left turns during the conflicting walk phase... If the intersection is split phased, they could just run that crosswalk with the adjacent (opposing) through green instead. There is a slight geometric offset at the intersection, but nothing too crazy (seems like prohibiting RTOR onto SW 312th would better protect peds in the crosswalk).

EDIT: Thinking about this more... I think I get that they're trying to clear left turn traffic during the opposing through phase, so if there's no through movement on this approach then the signal need not run the second half of the split. So it's actually pretty clever. However, it looks like there are no dedicated turn lanes on this approach, so use of a FYA is still somewhat bizarre (and is this even allowed by MUTCD?).

[NJRoadfan]

Came across a new one on US-40 in Maryland yesterday.... a flashing RED arrow. The sign posted next to it stated "LEFT TURN PERMITTED AFTER FULL STOP WHEN FLASHING" or something along those lines. A quick search indicates this signal may have predated the decision to go with a yellow flasher for the same traffic control device.

Youtube to the rescue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2jZ62dLlY
Another one in Delaware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLbPka-JUxo

[MCRoads]

Never seen any in Oklahoma. Norman, in particular, loves its doghouse signals.

That is interesting, now they ALWAYS use them!

[jakeroot]

Came across a new one on US-40 in Maryland yesterday.... a flashing RED arrow. The sign posted next to it stated "LEFT TURN PERMITTED AFTER FULL STOP WHEN FLASHING" or something along those lines. A quick search indicates this signal may have predated the decision to go with a yellow flasher for the same traffic control device.

Maryland uses flashing red arrows instead of flashing yellow arrows. They do indeed predate the flashing yellow arrow.

I believe the Maryland Transport authority (whoever they are) took up a study at one point, to consider converting the FRAs to FYAs. But they decided to stick with the red arrow for various reasons.

[jakeroot]

^^ I'm trying to understand the purpose of holding the through traffic but allowing permitted left turns during the conflicting walk phase... If the intersection is split phased, they could just run that crosswalk with the adjacent (opposing) through green instead. There is a slight geometric offset at the intersection, but nothing too crazy (seems like prohibiting RTOR onto SW 312th would better protect peds in the crosswalk).

EDIT: Thinking about this more... I think I get that they're trying to clear left turn traffic during the opposing through phase, so if there's no through movement on this approach then the signal need not run the second half of the split. So it's actually pretty clever. However, it looks like there are no dedicated turn lanes on this approach, so use of a FYA is still somewhat bizarre (and is this even allowed by MUTCD?).

Here's a Gmaps link: https://goo.gl/RuoQou -- each approach is single lane.

The idea with the FYA was to allow the NB 14 Ave S traffic to turn left at the same time as the crosswalk (a busy one due to a nearby school). The traditional split-phased setup conflicted with the crosswalk, so two phases were required even if both cars and pedestrians originated from the SB approach.

This setup, while intriguing, has resulted in a situation where a driver may enter and freely turn left without stopping (after giving way to pedestrians), but must stop before turning right.

I too would rather see the through movements occur at the same time (the offset is more apparent in person, but still not that crazy); evidently, the city of Federal Way must disagree on the offsets not being too crazy. I'll email my contact in the city to see what the "official" idea was.