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What would the $5.2 billion transportation tax increase cost you?

Started by bing101, March 30, 2017, 11:47:18 AM

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bing101

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article141595099.html


Post Merge: March 31, 2017, 09:09:57 AM


Heres the report from the bee.

QuoteThe $5.2 billion transportation plan unveiled Wednesday relies heavily on higher fuel taxes and a new transportation improvement fee linked to a vehicle's value. Over 10 years, the proposed 12-cent increase in the base excise tax would raise an estimated $24.4 billion and the transportation improvement fee would raise an estimated $16.3 billion.
What that means for the owners of California's more than 34 million registered vehicles, though, depends on how much they drive, their vehicle's gas mileage, and its value. In addition, the various increases would take effect at different times. Everything would be in effect by July 1, 2019.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article141595099.html#storylink=cpy

Merged posts. Removed unnecessary formatting tags from quoted material. –Roadfro


ACSCmapcollector

Quote from: bing101 on March 30, 2017, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: bing101 on March 30, 2017, 11:47:18 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article141595099.html

Heres the report from the bee.

QuoteThe $5.2 billion transportation plan unveiled Wednesday relies heavily on higher fuel taxes and a new transportation improvement fee linked to a vehicle's value. Over 10 years, the proposed 12-cent increase in the base excise tax would raise an estimated $24.4 billion and the transportation improvement fee would raise an estimated $16.3 billion.
What that means for the owners of California's more than 34 million registered vehicles, though, depends on how much they drive, their vehicle's gas mileage, and its value. In addition, the various increases would take effect at different times. Everything would be in effect by July 1, 2019.

Finally I do accept this improvement for California aging highways and roads system through what Governor Brown is proposing, much needed long term for repairs along the way.


Removed unnecessary formatting tags from quoted material in the quoted post. –Roadfro

Max Rockatansky

At least there isn't a mileage tax in there.  Most of those increases could be chalked up to adjustment for inflation, sure won't help gas prices though.  I guess strike while the iron is hot after all these infrastructure debacles this winter?  I'm not exactly hedging my bet in regards to being here by 2019 though...

SP Cook

Good - "package would include a constitutial amendment to prevet legislators from diverting the money to non-transportation items."

Bad - "public transit". 

Question - Does this have anything to do with the wacky sci-fi train plans?

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: SP Cook on March 30, 2017, 03:29:25 PM
Good - "package would include a constitutial amendment to prevet legislators from diverting the money to non-transportation items."

Bad - "public transit". 

Question - Does this have anything to do with the wacky sci-fi train plans?

You bet it does, there are a whole lot of folks that would be very happy to put an end to the High Speed Rail project....especially in the Central part of the state.

The Ghostbuster

Does anyone know how much of the tax increase will be spent on roads vs. transit? Or do the details still need to be ironed out?

bing101


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: bing101 on April 07, 2017, 09:19:52 PM
http://www.kcra.com/article/see-how-much-california-s-gas-tax-bill-will-cost-you/9246142

Here is an update to the Gas tax bill for California.

Kind of ironic how some of the people they talk to have completely forgotten about $4-$5 dollar gasoline....especially that retired guy.  God forbid you didn't factor in an expense increase on your "fixed retirement income."   :rolleyes:  Nobody likes paying more, I'll probably be on the high side of the registration hike with my Challenger....really it just puts me into the territory I was paying every year in Arizona. 

sparker

I'll just have to see in 3 months when I have to re-up my car registration -- although with a pre-turn-of-the-century Camry, it might be closer to the minimum rather than maximum increase.  One can only hope!

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sparker on April 07, 2017, 09:35:19 PM
I'll just have to see in 3 months when I have to re-up my car registration -- although with a pre-turn-of-the-century Camry, it might be closer to the minimum rather than maximum increase.  One can only hope!

Mine is up in February next year for the Challenger and January for the Sonic.  The Sonic is already pretty reasonably low given it is a 2014, I'm expecting the Challenger will be over $400 but that ought to taper off a little given that it will be over two model years old by that point.

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 07, 2017, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 07, 2017, 09:35:19 PM
I'll just have to see in 3 months when I have to re-up my car registration -- although with a pre-turn-of-the-century Camry, it might be closer to the minimum rather than maximum increase.  One can only hope!

Mine is up in February next year for the Challenger and January for the Sonic.  The Sonic is already pretty reasonably low given it is a 2014, I'm expecting the Challenger will be over $400 but that ought to taper off a little given that it will be over two model years old by that point.

Actually, I was in error -- the registration increase won't be implemented until January 2018 -- which means all of us with renewals before that time are off the hook for this year.  (sorry about that, Max!)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sparker on April 09, 2017, 01:46:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 07, 2017, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 07, 2017, 09:35:19 PM
I'll just have to see in 3 months when I have to re-up my car registration -- although with a pre-turn-of-the-century Camry, it might be closer to the minimum rather than maximum increase.  One can only hope!

Mine is up in February next year for the Challenger and January for the Sonic.  The Sonic is already pretty reasonably low given it is a 2014, I'm expecting the Challenger will be over $400 but that ought to taper off a little given that it will be over two model years old by that point.

Actually, I was in error -- the registration increase won't be implemented until January 2018 -- which means all of us with renewals before that time are off the hook for this year.  (sorry about that, Max!)

Well that's a thing.  :-D  I guess that I can expect to pay the same thing for the next two years on both cars.

J N Winkler

If I lived in California and maintained my current vehicle fleet and driving patterns, the gasoline excise tax increase would work out to approximately $96 for a 2005 Toyota Camry and $18 for a 1994 Saturn SL2.  I suspect the increases in vehicle license fees for each car would be approximately the same:  it would be very strange if a 23-year-old car didn't come in at the bottom of the range ($25), but a 12-year-old car would probably fall somewhere near the middle ($100, let's say--the maximum increase is $175).

By far the most difficult aspect of immatriculation would be getting the Saturn past smog inspection.  The CARB keeps ratcheting the requirements so tight that others with well-maintained Saturns of similar vintage report having to swap out MAP sensors (differences in calibration affect short-term fuel trim and thus emissions), check for leaks where the exhaust manifold bolts onto the engine, replace the catalytic converter, etc.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

MaxConcrete

Now that this bill has passed (with the minimum required votes), California is poised to end its long run of underperformance in highway construction. Assuming that most of the money actually goes to highways and is not siphoned off to transit, this will be a big boost to get some big projects done.

In Texas, the additional $2.5 billion per year is making a big difference, and the California funding of $5.2 billion/year should do the same for them, maybe even more.

Excerpted From the Dallas Morning News

Gas tax hike victory displays governor's political skill
SACRAMENTO, Calif. – California Gov. Jerry Brown employed all the tricks he's accumulated over a lifetime in politics to pass one of the largest state tax increases in recent memory in one frenzied week.

Using a mix of public pressure, private arm-twisting, a late-night meeting at the governor's mansion and nearly $1 billion of pork, Brown showed the political acumen that's made him California's longest-serving chief executive.

Brown, who typically prefers to politick in private, was a very public campaigner for the deal he negotiated with fellow Democratic legislative leaders. He ventured to Concord and Riverside to pressure undecided legislators from those areas, and he appealed directly to two legislative committees.

A group of contractors and construction unions underwrote a $1 million ad blitz on TV and social media. And the day before Thursday's vote, Brown headlined a rally at the state Capitol.

The tax hike, projected to raise more than $5 billion a year from higher gas taxes and vehicle registration fees, cleared the Legislature on Thursday night without a single vote to spare for the two-thirds majority required for tax increases.

Minutes later, at about 11 p.m. on the eve of his 79th birthday, Brown stepped out of his office and declared victory, flanked by about a dozen lawmakers.

"I appreciate being a Democrat and what the Democrats did tonight,"  Brown said. "The Democratic Party is the party of doing things. And tonight we did something to fix the roads of California."

Californians have historically been receptive to hiking taxes on the rich and "sins"  like cigarettes. In 2012, Brown convinced voters to approve a higher income tax on the wealthy.

Thad Kousser, chair of the political science department at University of California, San Diego, said Brown and his legislative partners – Senate leader Kevin de Leon and Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon – cleared a higher hurdle by winning passage for a much broader tax package.

"What he got was a legislature ... to look ahead 10, 20 years into the future and put some pain on their voters today to build California for the future,"  Kousser said. "That makes it a really tough trek."

The deal will raise gasoline taxes 43 percent to 47.3 cents per gallon beginning Nov. 1. Diesel taxes will more than double to 36 cents a gallon. Vehicle owners will be charged a new annual fee, paid along with the vehicle registration.

The money, more than $52 billion over the next 10 years, will pay for repairs to state highways and local streets, along with improvements to bridges, public transit, and biking and walking trails.

Every Republican but one, Sen. Anthony Cannella of Ceres, opposed the plan. Republicans said overtaxed Californians can't shoulder another increase. California's gas taxes will be among the highest in the nation.

The decision to ask lawmakers for a tax hike is a departure from Brown's promise in 2010, when he pledged not to raise taxes without a vote of the people. However, he did not repeat the promise when he was reelected four years later.

"He has that uncanny knack for knowing when to seize a political issue and run with it and make it work and score with it,"  said Larry Gerston, a professor emeritus of political science at San Jose State University. "He rarely loses the big fight."
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

sparker

Quote from: MaxConcrete on April 10, 2017, 10:02:40 PM
Now that this bill has passed (with the minimum required votes), California is poised to end its long run of underperformance in highway construction. Assuming that most of the money actually goes to highways and is not siphoned off to transit, this will be a big boost to get some big projects done.

In Texas, the additional $2.5 billion per year is making a big difference, and the California funding of $5.2 billion/year should do the same for them, maybe even more.

Excerpted From the Dallas Morning News

Gas tax hike victory displays governor's political skill
SACRAMENTO, Calif. – California Gov. Jerry Brown employed all the tricks he's accumulated over a lifetime in politics to pass one of the largest state tax increases in recent memory in one frenzied week.

Using a mix of public pressure, private arm-twisting, a late-night meeting at the governor's mansion and nearly $1 billion of pork, Brown showed the political acumen that's made him California's longest-serving chief executive.

Brown, who typically prefers to politick in private, was a very public campaigner for the deal he negotiated with fellow Democratic legislative leaders. He ventured to Concord and Riverside to pressure undecided legislators from those areas, and he appealed directly to two legislative committees.

A group of contractors and construction unions underwrote a $1 million ad blitz on TV and social media. And the day before Thursday's vote, Brown headlined a rally at the state Capitol.

The tax hike, projected to raise more than $5 billion a year from higher gas taxes and vehicle registration fees, cleared the Legislature on Thursday night without a single vote to spare for the two-thirds majority required for tax increases.

Minutes later, at about 11 p.m. on the eve of his 79th birthday, Brown stepped out of his office and declared victory, flanked by about a dozen lawmakers.

"I appreciate being a Democrat and what the Democrats did tonight,"  Brown said. "The Democratic Party is the party of doing things. And tonight we did something to fix the roads of California."

Californians have historically been receptive to hiking taxes on the rich and "sins"  like cigarettes. In 2012, Brown convinced voters to approve a higher income tax on the wealthy.

Thad Kousser, chair of the political science department at University of California, San Diego, said Brown and his legislative partners – Senate leader Kevin de Leon and Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon – cleared a higher hurdle by winning passage for a much broader tax package.

"What he got was a legislature ... to look ahead 10, 20 years into the future and put some pain on their voters today to build California for the future,"  Kousser said. "That makes it a really tough trek."

The deal will raise gasoline taxes 43 percent to 47.3 cents per gallon beginning Nov. 1. Diesel taxes will more than double to 36 cents a gallon. Vehicle owners will be charged a new annual fee, paid along with the vehicle registration.

The money, more than $52 billion over the next 10 years, will pay for repairs to state highways and local streets, along with improvements to bridges, public transit, and biking and walking trails.

Every Republican but one, Sen. Anthony Cannella of Ceres, opposed the plan. Republicans said overtaxed Californians can't shoulder another increase. California's gas taxes will be among the highest in the nation.

The decision to ask lawmakers for a tax hike is a departure from Brown's promise in 2010, when he pledged not to raise taxes without a vote of the people. However, he did not repeat the promise when he was reelected four years later.

"He has that uncanny knack for knowing when to seize a political issue and run with it and make it work and score with it,"  said Larry Gerston, a professor emeritus of political science at San Jose State University. "He rarely loses the big fight."

Re the one Republican who voted for the plan:  Cannella (R-Ceres) got two tangible things out of the deal for his district: (1) a parkway from CA 99 directly around the east side of Merced to UC Merced, something that has been bandied about for most of the past decade but never funded until now, and (2) an extension of the San Jose-Stockton ACE rail commuter service to Modesto, Ceres, and Merced.  The exact routing of this extension (and whether it'll be handled by additional trains branching off from the existing ACE line near Lathrop or directly SE from Stockton) has yet to be revealed.

Henry

Why aren't I surprised that the gas hike is happening now? Expect more headaches at the pump in L.A., San Diego and the Bay Area!
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

theroadwayone

Is California that hell-bent on driving people out of the state? At some point, they're going to wonder why they're in so much debt, and why businesses don't want to come here, and all that good stuff.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: theroadwayone on April 17, 2017, 12:52:42 AM
Is California that hell-bent on driving people out of the state? At some point, they're going to wonder why they're in so much debt, and why businesses don't want to come here, and all that good stuff.

Well...I mean come on, anyone can see the road network needs some help with funding and isn't in good shape.  Unfortunately you got pay for those kind of things and most of these increases (sans DMV) are pretty nominal.  Nothing ever costs the same over a long enough period of time.  That isn't meant to say that there isn't wasteful spending, but that necessarily isn't exclusively a California problem. 

J N Winkler

Bad roads and underdeveloped connections are a pretty good way to discourage inward investment.  In any event, as an outsider who visits California occasionally, I perceive that by far the biggest factor that drives people out of the state is very high housing costs, which is as much a result of congestion and high demand as it is of sclerosis in the planning system.  An extra $400 in fuel tax and license fees every year is quite small compared to an annual property tax bill of about $30,000 in desirable areas and the fact that newly purchased 1950's houses with 1950's amenities have property tax bills that reflect McMansion redevelopment potential, notwithstanding Proposition 13.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

ARMOURERERIC

It is supposedly coming out of hat only the new revenue generated is in a lock box.  The new legislation seems to allow raiding the pre existing revenue for general purposes.

Occidental Tourist

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 17, 2017, 10:51:45 AM
An extra $400 in fuel tax and license fees every year is quite small compared to an annual property tax bill of about $30,000 in desirable areas

If you have an annual property tax bill of $30,000, you live in Bel Air or Malibu.

theroadwayone

With the small but fast increasing number of electric cars in CA (which don't contribute to the fuel tax,) how do they carry their share of the weight, aside vehicle and tire taxes (and of course tolls?)

J N Winkler

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 17, 2017, 07:23:19 PMIt is supposedly coming out that only the new revenue generated is in a lock box.  The new legislation seems to allow raiding the pre existing revenue for general purposes.

Wasn't there a proposition passed in the mid-noughties that dedicated the proceeds of fuel taxes to transportation purposes?

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on April 18, 2017, 01:00:30 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 17, 2017, 10:51:45 AMAn extra $400 in fuel tax and license fees every year is quite small compared to an annual property tax bill of about $30,000 in desirable areas

If you have an annual property tax bill of $30,000, you live in Bel Air or Malibu.

I take your point.  However, I have heard a story of a $27,000 property tax bill that was told by someone living in Ventura County who commented that he could buy a house in Rochester, New York and demolish it for architectural salvage, all for less than he paid each year in property taxes.

I picked a house in South Los Angeles (107th Street or thereabouts) at random just now in Zillow:  $200,000 for about 1200 square feet, lot size probably around 5,000 square feet, property taxes of $3,000.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kalvado

Quote from: theroadwayone on April 19, 2017, 12:06:50 AM
With the small but fast increasing number of electric cars in CA (which don't contribute to the fuel tax,) how do they carry their share of the weight, aside vehicle and tire taxes (and of course tolls?)
They pay their share by getting a state rebate check. Amount on that check is close to what average car would generate in gas taxes over its lifetime..

briantroutman

Quote from: theroadwayone on April 17, 2017, 12:52:42 AM
Is California that hell-bent on driving people out of the state? At some point, they're going to wonder why they're in so much debt, and why businesses don't want to come here, and all that good stuff.

As a former resident of California who has since left the Golden State, I can say that taxes, regulations, fuel prices, etc. had almost nothing to do with my decision to leave the state. Really, in addition to the fact that I was homesick for the Northeast, real estate prices (in any place I would want to live) were a major factor. While I was a carefree twenty-something, I was fine living in a cramped apartment surrounded by million-dollar starter homes, but after having a child, my priorities shifted.

It seems to me that California is remarkably well insulated from any possible resistance to tax increases. You can't easily cross state lines and commute to any of California's major cities from Nevada. And if you like the character of San Francisco, the hills of the Bay Area, the beaches of the Southland, or the climate of Los Angeles, you're only going to find them there–nowhere else in the country. The state's two major cities have firmly established themselves as "paradise"  destinations that millions of people the world over would happily live if given the chance–even if high costs might not make living in California a truly rational decision.



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