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Wisconsin boy's visit to Washington

Started by colinstu, June 21, 2014, 08:49:41 AM

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colinstu

Was recently there (for the first time) with my partner (who was a native there before) on a vacation.

Things I noticed:
1) The roads themselves are incredibly noisy (most of the time). The rocks used seem kind of big and not very flat / coarse texture is caused by this. Any idea why it's like this? Is it a money thing? Longevity? Good for braking or something?

2) Concrete barriers on the edges of roads/bridges/ramps, center barrier etc have a dirty look to them. Very gray and a streaky look (from the rain I assume). I asked my partner and he said this is caused by tree pollen which eventually turns mildewy... is this accurate? Is it something else? Has WSDOT ever considered painting these barriers? They'd probably look better / could be formulated in a way that wouldn't allow pollen to stick or mildew to grow?

3) Saw FHWA series C (or D?) series font used here and there on overhead signage (and around SEA). I assume this is being phased out?


EDIT: also. does anyone have a complete map of the new SR-16 I-5 interchange project (and areas that are being constructed around it too)?


Bruce

Quote from: colinstu on June 21, 2014, 08:49:41 AM
EDIT: also. does anyone have a complete map of the new SR-16 I-5 interchange project (and areas that are being constructed around it too)?

The I-5/SR 16 interchange (called the Nalley Valley Viaduct project) is actually three projects under one umbrella. WSDOT has separate webpages for each of the stages:

The original interchange:


Current configuration (2011):


Final configuration (2022):

colinstu


Bruce


sammi


jakeroot

Quote from: sammi on June 21, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2014, 05:44:47 PM
[WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams](http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/tools/InterchangeViewer/pdf/SR005/005X132A.pdf).

Markdown? You must be a redditor. :spin:

WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams

Markdown aside (not even sure what that is...lol), what's the point of that diagram? It doesn't seem to do anything well except show the reader where the mileposts are and in which direction each carriageway flows. Sorry, but I could draw a diagram with crayon with greater accuracy.

Bruce

Quote from: jake on June 25, 2014, 06:40:19 PM
Markdown aside (not even sure what that is...lol), what's the point of that diagram? It doesn't seem to do anything well except show the reader where the mileposts are and in which direction each carriageway flows. Sorry, but I could draw a diagram with crayon with greater accuracy.

The interchange diagrams are a sort of visual version of the State Highway Log (PDF), which shows posted and actual mileages (an essential resource for Wikipedia editors like myself).

Quote from: sammi on June 21, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2014, 05:44:47 PM
[WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams](http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/tools/InterchangeViewer/pdf/SR005/005X132A.pdf).

Markdown? You must be a redditor. :spin:

WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams

You've caught me red-handed.

roadfro

Quote from: jake on June 25, 2014, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: sammi on June 21, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2014, 05:44:47 PM
[WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams](http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/tools/InterchangeViewer/pdf/SR005/005X132A.pdf).

Markdown? You must be a redditor. :spin:

WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams

Markdown aside (not even sure what that is...lol), what's the point of that diagram? It doesn't seem to do anything well except show the reader where the mileposts are and in which direction each carriageway flows. Sorry, but I could draw a diagram with crayon with greater accuracy.

These kinds of drawings can be useful for people working in the field (i.e. maintenance crews or contractors) to be able to reference locations without referring to a stationing line (which is often not marked in the field and is usually only traceable using a GPS unit with the stationing line loaded in it).

I'm having trouble understanding your meaning behind that last part. I'd understand if this were a crappy rendering or something like a map drawn on a cocktail napkin. But that link is an engineering drawing done up in CAD...not sure how you can get more accurate than that.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

jakeroot


Quote from: roadfro on June 25, 2014, 09:25:41 PM
Quote from: jake on June 25, 2014, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: sammi on June 21, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2014, 05:44:47 PM
[WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams](http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/tools/InterchangeViewer/pdf/SR005/005X132A.pdf).

Markdown? You must be a redditor. :spin:

WSDOT's Interchange Diagrams

Markdown aside (not even sure what that is...lol), what's the point of that diagram? It doesn't seem to do anything well except show the reader where the mileposts are and in which direction each carriageway flows. Sorry, but I could draw a diagram with crayon with greater accuracy.

These kinds of drawings can be useful for people working in the field (i.e. maintenance crews or contractors) to be able to reference locations without referring to a stationing line (which is often not marked in the field and is usually only traceable using a GPS unit with the stationing line loaded in it).

I'm having trouble understanding your meaning behind that last part. I'd understand if this were a crappy rendering or something like a map drawn on a cocktail napkin. But that link is an engineering drawing done up in CAD...not sure how you can get more accurate than that.

Typically, when I fail to understand something, I also find it easy to criticise. But understanding it now, I see no reason for the diagram to show proper widths and so on, and thus, I retract my previous statement that I could draw a more accurate diagram with crayon because that isn't the point (it seems).


iPhone

KEK Inc.

The Series D and C on BGS are some of the few ugly sign cramming WSDOT attempted to do in the past.  While rare, they're pretty horrific. 
Take the road less traveled.

jakeroot

Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 10, 2014, 04:10:15 AM
The Series D and C on BGS are some of the few ugly sign cramming WSDOT attempted to do in the past.  While rare, they're pretty horrific.

Like this?


Kacie Jane

Ironically, those 56th Street signs are fairly new. The older ones didn't mention University Place (the second line said Tacoma Mall Blvd instead).

jakeroot

Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 11, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Ironically, those 56th Street signs are fairly new. The older ones didn't mention University Place (the second line said Tacoma Mall Blvd instead).

I actually remember when they put those up, and, being in my font-spotting infancy, thought they were Clearview.

There's a new set of signs for the Puyallup Fair Washington State Fair north of the Bridgeport interchange that I always thought was Clearview too. Not surprisingly, it was Series C. Ugh.

J N Winkler

The actual construction plans for the SR 16/I-5 Nalley Valley jobs are still available online.

ftp://ftp.wsdot.wa.gov/contracts/7594%20SR16%20WESTBOUND%20NALLEY%20VALLEY%20IC/

ftp://ftp.wsdot.wa.gov/contracts/8189%20I-5SR16EastboundNalleyValleyHOV/

I thank the OP for the explanation of why Jersey barriers and other concrete surfaces look so weathered in western Washington--it is something I have also noticed and, frankly, don't care much for.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

colinstu

thank you for these links! now THIS is what I'm talking about.

I94RoadRunner

Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2014, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: colinstu on June 21, 2014, 08:49:41 AM
EDIT: also. does anyone have a complete map of the new SR-16 I-5 interchange project (and areas that are being constructed around it too)?

The I-5/SR 16 interchange (called the Nalley Valley Viaduct project) is actually three projects under one umbrella. WSDOT has separate webpages for each of the stages:

The original interchange:


Current configuration (2011):


Final configuration (2022):


The original proposed interchange had fully directional ramps to be built between I-5, WA 16, and Sprague Ave. The "Sprague T" cut the costs significantly at the cost of some left turns.
Chris Kalina

“The easiest solution to fixing the I-238 problem is to redefine I-580 as I-38

jakeroot

#16
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 11, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Ironically, those 56th Street signs are fairly new. The older ones didn't mention University Place (the second line said Tacoma Mall Blvd instead).

Another new set of signs courtesy of WashDOT (I-705 northbound just short of the Stadium exit (duh)):


I94RoadRunner

Quote from: jake on October 23, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 11, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Ironically, those 56th Street signs are fairly new. The older ones didn't mention University Place (the second line said Tacoma Mall Blvd instead).

Another new set of signs courtesy of WashDOT (I-705 northbound just sort of the Stadium exit (duh)):



Technically I-705 ends at the E. 11th St bridge, therefore this would already be part of the Schuster Pkwy unless it has been recently extended to the Schuster Pkwy/Stadium Way interchange where I-705 really should end .....
Chris Kalina

“The easiest solution to fixing the I-238 problem is to redefine I-580 as I-38

jakeroot

Quote from: I94RoadRunner on October 24, 2014, 03:34:33 AM
Quote from: jake on October 23, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 11, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Ironically, those 56th Street signs are fairly new. The older ones didn't mention University Place (the second line said Tacoma Mall Blvd instead).

Another new set of signs courtesy of WashDOT (I-705 northbound just short of the Stadium exit (duh)):

Technically I-705 ends at the E. 11th St bridge, therefore this would already be part of the Schuster Pkwy unless it has been recently extended to the Schuster Pkwy/Stadium Way interchange where I-705 really should end .....

I've always considered the signal with Stadium the end/beginning of the interstate, but the signing is so insufficient there's hardly any way to tell. Does the state publish any official maps?

Kacie Jane

Official maps, yes, though I don't know they'd be stained enough to get the answer. What will get us the answer is the State Highway Log, which shows that 705 actually ends 0.06 miles past the 11th St underpass, at the gore.  In other words, it does in fact end at the interchange, but not at the traffic light at the end of the ramps.

(From here, it's an issue of semantics whether ramps to the highway count as part of the highway itself.)

I94RoadRunner

Quote from: Kacie Jane on October 24, 2014, 11:27:57 AM
Official maps, yes, though I don't know they'd be stained enough to get the answer. What will get us the answer is the State Highway Log, which shows that 705 actually ends 0.06 miles past the 11th St underpass, at the gore.  In other words, it does in fact end at the interchange, but not at the traffic light at the end of the ramps.

(From here, it's an issue of semantics whether ramps to the highway count as part of the highway itself.)

I recall this was the case from old Thomas brothers' maps I owned while I lived in Seattle dating back to the construction of I-705 in the early 1990's if memory serves .....?
Chris Kalina

“The easiest solution to fixing the I-238 problem is to redefine I-580 as I-38

Kacie Jane

Somehow "detailed" autocorrected to "stained" in my previous post. My humblest apologies.

jakeroot

Quote from: Kacie Jane on October 24, 2014, 08:45:39 PM
Somehow "detailed" autocorrected to "stained" in my previous post. My humblest apologies.

Actually, I thought that was intentional, as in the maps were stained by like coffee mugs over time from just laying around at the capitol).

Fcexpress80

1) The roads themselves are incredibly noisy (most of the time). The rocks used seem kind of big and not very flat / coarse texture is caused by this. Any idea why it's like this? Is it a money thing? Longevity? Good for braking or something?

Why?  Studded tires.  Money thing?  Yes.  Longevity?  No.  Good for breaking?  No, especially where the wear creates ruts and water pools during rainy weather.  Solution (any or all of the following): ban studded tires, raise taxes, grind the concrete smooth again, replace damaged sections of roadway on a periodic basis.   

OCGuy81

This is probably as good a place as any to add a recent Washington observation.  When I was in Portland, I drove into Clark County, WA to meet another friend for dinner.  Not sure if this applies to most of Washington, but at least in Vancouver, WA "Freeway Entrance" signs seemed to be widely used.



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