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De frewayising the Sheridan

Started by Otto Yamamoto, March 20, 2017, 09:07:58 AM

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Otto Yamamoto



Rothman

In my personal opinion, it has been in the serious works for quite some time.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Brandon

Short freeway, but looks like it might be an important connector, especially for truck traffic as the parallel route is a parkway.  Sounds like an insane plan.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

froggie

And, not surprisingly, the denizens of the Freewayjim Facebook group are going beserk...

Here's what I've been able to put together regarding the roadway portions of the plan, and not all of it is "insane" or "bad":

- Reconstruct the Bruckner/Sheridan interchange to make the Bruckner the "through movement" and also a consistent 6 lanes.

- Construct a direct flyover from the Sheridan to Edgewater Rd (to improve access to the Hunts Point Market).  This flyover would also include an on-ramp from the eastbound Bruckner (via the northbound Sheridan).  The access from northbound Edgewater to the eastbound Bruckner would remain.

- Remove the northbound on-ramp from Hunts Point Ave (no longer needed with the new access from Edgewater).

- Construct new on/off ramps on the westbound Bruckner at Leggett Ave (for westbound access to/from Hunts Point).

- The below-grade separation at Westchester Ave will remain, as will the off-ramps in each direction there.  The southbound off-ramp to Westchester will be widened to 2 lanes.

- Northbound Sheridan will remain two lanes.  Southbound Sheridan will remain three lanes between I-95 and the off-ramp to Westchester ave.

- The eastern frontage road, north of Westchester Ave, will be converted to one-way.

- Three at-grade intersections will be added to the Sheridan, at roughly Jennings St, E 172nd, and E 173rd.  NONE of these at-grades will offer vehicle access to/from the west (all three will have pedestrian access).  The at-grade access will also be to/from the east side frontage road and Starlight Park.

cl94

Honestly, this will do more good than harm. Unlike many of you, this is my job and I have to look at it from a big-picture perspective. This will make traveling on the Bruckner much easier and the main uses for the Sheridan is local traffic and getting to/from the Bronx River Parkway. The freeway-freeway connections are redundant and nobody uses them.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Tom958

Quote from: froggie on March 20, 2017, 12:08:35 PM
And, not surprisingly, the denizens of the Freewayjim Facebook group are going berserk...

Yeah, it really brought 'em out of the woodwork.

Thanks for the writeup. Between that and the one rendering I've seen, I have a much clearer idea of what's proposed. Calling it a freeway removal is a considerable misnomer.

Quote from: cl94Honestly, this will do more good than harm. Unlike many of you, this is my job and I have to look at it from a big-picture perspective. This will make traveling on the Bruckner much easier and the main uses for the Sheridan is local traffic and getting to/from the Bronx River Parkway. The freeway-freeway connections are redundant and nobody uses them.

I agree, though the cost is mind boggling. Any ideas as to why?

cl94

I'm willing to bet a large amount of the cost is labor. Need to pay 2-3 times as much for work in NYC just because of cost of living.

Hunts Point needs better access and this will probably do wonders for neighborhood congestion and air quality. Heck, Hunts Point gets twice as much traffic as the current Sheridan. If anything, this might be an upgrade for neighborhood infrastructure.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Duke87

Quote from: froggie on March 20, 2017, 12:08:35 PM
- Reconstruct the Bruckner/Sheridan interchange to make the Bruckner the "through movement" and also a consistent 6 lanes.

This in and of itself will be a massive improvement, considering that interchange is regularly a congestion-inducing choke point.

Mind you, this could be done without changing anything further north. And further north... now that I see there is no actual vehicular access planned to Jennings, 172, and 173 Sts this has taken on a new level of "oh come on now". Adding actual intersections with those streets would make for a legitimate integration of the roadway with the community providing greater local access. That I could see as an overall improvement (maybe).

What's being proposed here is adding (presumably signalized) crosswalks to the road without actually allowing any motorized cross-traffic - in other words, nothing that couldn't be accomplished more safely with a pedestrian overpass. Wonder how long it will take until the first incident where someone gets killed or maimed in one of those crosswalks.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Otto Yamamoto

New York in general seems to have an aversion to pedestrian overcrossings on non freeways. Perhaps they think traffic will slow down because of the level crossings.

XT1254


froggie

QuoteWhat's being proposed here is adding (presumably signalized) crosswalks to the road without actually allowing any motorized cross-traffic

This is not entirely true.  While you are correct in that the neighborhood to the west won't have vehicle access to the Sheridan, vehicles from the east frontage road, vehicles coming north from Westchester Ave, and vehicles from Starlight Park will all be able to cross northbound Sheridan to turn south.  Theoretically, vehicles along southbound Sheridan would be allowed to turn left at 172nd to access Starlight park, but that's not a given based on the proposed diagram.

AMLNet49

They should just reconstruct the 895-278 interchange and leave it at that. Maybe only devote one or two lanes to 895. Then just keep the rest the same, instead of bastardizing what would still be mostly a freeway. Literally all they want to do is make it a non-Interstate.

I have also never understood why it is redundant, if you're a truck coming from northern Brooklyn or Queens heading to I-80, your options are the Deegan or the Sheridan. It would seem to me that you could avoid a lot of traffic by taking 895 instead of 87. Do their GPSs just tell them to take 87 because it's physically shorter and they don't question it?

Roadgeek Adam

#11
Unless you're a trucker, the loss of the Sheridan is not going to be completely problematic. Car drivers can just use the BRP, and if worse comes to worse, the replacement will suffice.

The problem that demolishing the Sheridan in favor of an arterial boulevard is that the city already have a lot of traffic and unless you start reducing the amount of the cars in the city, the traffic will not make it easier. The Sheridan is a nice alternative, but it would be nice to have a better connection to East Tremont Avenue.

So, it's really a lose-lose situation. Cuomo gets what he wants, we will have to deal with it.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

cl94

Quote from: AMLNet49 on March 21, 2017, 01:14:31 PM
I have also never understood why it is redundant, if you're a truck coming from northern Brooklyn or Queens heading to I-80, your options are the Deegan or the Sheridan. It would seem to me that you could avoid a lot of traffic by taking 895 instead of 87. Do their GPSs just tell them to take 87 because it's physically shorter and they don't question it?

As it is, they want those trucks to use the Whitestone. The eastern two bridges are the designated truck routes in/out of the area.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

The Ghostbuster

How much traffic utilizes the Sheridan Expressway on a daily basis? If it is an underutilized freeway, that would be one thing. However, if it is a needed freeway connection, it should not be removed.

cl94

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 21, 2017, 04:44:32 PM
How much traffic utilizes the Sheridan Expressway on a daily basis? If it is an underutilized freeway, that would be one thing. However, if it is a needed freeway connection, it should not be removed.

35K vehicles, 12.5% trucks. Far less than any other limited-access highway in the City and less than several surface streets. The best comparison to the future state is the West side Highway, which gets 60-80K on the surface. A large amount of the cars are going to/from the Bronx River Parkway and use it to avoid the current squeeze at the Bruckner/Sheridan interchange, which will be eliminated as part of this project.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Duke87

Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on March 21, 2017, 02:28:51 AM
New York in general seems to have an aversion to pedestrian overcrossings on non freeways. Perhaps they think traffic will slow down because of the level crossings.

From the plans it appears the crosswalks will be raised - so yes, traffic will slow down as the results of not doing so may be unpleasant. On the other hand I foresee there being incidents where, perhaps late at night in a sleep deprived or otherwise impaired state, someone forgets or doesn't realize there has been a change and hits one of those raised crosswalks at 70 MPH, damaging their vehicle. The characteristics of the Sheridan will, after all, remain unchanged and therefore deceptively freewaylike south of Westchester Ave.

Now, if there were pedestrian overpasses it could still be a freeway and there'd be no need for traffic to slow down. But, admittedly, it is more convenient as a pedestrian to walk across a street at grade than to have to climb up to an overpass, so there's that. And traffic being slower will make the park more pleasant due to reduced noise.

Still, it doesn't look like anyone ever seriously considered any alternative that keeps the freeway. This didn't start as a desire to improve the neighborhood and/or access to the park. It started as a desire to remove the freeway and the problem was framed from the beginning to fit that predetermined solution.


I also wonder how long it will take for luxury condos to start going up in the area. This project has "grease the wheels of the gentrification machine" written all over it.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

MisterSG1

Well, will there be any ped crossings south of Westchester, i wouldn't see much point as a pedestrian would have to cross the rail tracks east of there to essentially get nowhwere.

If the forces of gentrification do happen on "Sheridan Avenue", how exactly can it be ideal? It's still a fair hike from the 6 train.

By the way Duke87, remember what you said before regarding the Sheridan Expwy in the past, I'll take you up on that offer this summer if you're up for it

froggie

Quote from: Duke87The characteristics of the Sheridan will, after all, remain unchanged and therefore deceptively freewaylike south of Westchester Ave.

I wouldn't quite say that.  The ramps to/from the Bruckner will be CONSIDERABLY changed, plus the flyover connector to Edgewater.

Quote from: MisterSG1If the forces of gentrification do happen on "Sheridan Avenue", how exactly can it be ideal? It's still a fair hike from the 6 train.

Less than a half mile (~0.4 to be exact) to the 6 at Whitlock Ave from 172nd St.  That's a reasonable walk and less than 10 minutes unless someone's a slowpoke or just doesn't like walking.

Some locations along Sheridan are also less than a half-mile walk from the 2 and 5 along Southern Blvd.

Henry

So it looks like I-895 will soon become a thing of the past...
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

froggie

I've put a map together with my best estimate on everything that will be done as part of this project.  It's heavily based on the maps and video made available as part of Cuomo's online press release:



Duke87

Quote from: froggie on March 22, 2017, 07:49:19 AM
Quote from: Duke87The characteristics of the Sheridan will, after all, remain unchanged and therefore deceptively freewaylike south of Westchester Ave.

I wouldn't quite say that.  The ramps to/from the Bruckner will be CONSIDERABLY changed, plus the flyover connector to Edgewater

As I understand it all that's funded right now is the boulevardization. The new ramps to Edgewater and the Reconstruction of the interchange with the Bruckner are part of the master plan that's been shown to the public now, but they're separate future projects that may or may not actually happen anytime soon (or ever).

Quote from: MisterSG1 on March 21, 2017, 11:19:51 PM
By the way Duke87, remember what you said before regarding the Sheridan Expwy in the past, I'll take you up on that offer this summer if you're up for it

You're going to have to jog my memory. What did I offer to do?
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

MisterSG1

#21
Well I said this around a year ago regarding the Sheridan:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15789.msg2137376#msg2137376

You offered to show me around The Bronx, I'll do it if you're willing to.

Duke87

Quote from: MisterSG1 on March 22, 2017, 09:21:23 PM
Well I said this around a year ago regarding the Sheridan:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15789.msg2137376#msg2137376

You offered to show me around The Bronx, I'll do it if you're willing to.

Oh right now I remember that post. You insulted the homeland of my ancestors. :P

That offer remains on the table. Actually, if there's enough interest, I could even put together some sort of mini-meet. Anyone else want a tour of The Bronx?
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Alps

Quote from: Duke87 on March 22, 2017, 10:12:33 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on March 22, 2017, 09:21:23 PM
Well I said this around a year ago regarding the Sheridan:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15789.msg2137376#msg2137376

You offered to show me around The Bronx, I'll do it if you're willing to.

Oh right now I remember that post. You insulted the homeland of my ancestors. :P

That offer remains on the table. Actually, if there's enough interest, I could even put together some sort of mini-meet. Anyone else want a tour of The Bronx?
As long as it respects women and minorities.

froggie

#24
Quote from: Duke87As I understand it all that's funded right now is the boulevardization. The new ramps to Edgewater and the Reconstruction of the interchange with the Bruckner are part of the master plan that's been shown to the public now, but they're separate future projects that may or may not actually happen anytime soon (or ever).

In all fairness, none of it is funded yet.  Cuomo included the first phase in his budget, but that still has yet to be approved.



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