I-69 Ohio River Bridge

[sparker]

Maybe the gas tax increase in Indiana will give them the incentive to rebuild the bridges in the future.  Then again Indiana seems to always give Evansville the shaft. 

Nexus 6P

Believe it or not, the bridges are located entirely within Kentucky.

And it looks like all the screened options cited in the article follow suit with this circumstance; even the central corridor option #1 (which, IMO, is the most likely eventual choice) has its northern anchorage within Kentucky -- although not by much, according to the map.  Nevertheless, there's not a chance in hell that KY will be on the hook for the full cost of the bridge (although it's likely to be the "lead" jurisdiction); it'll be a joint project between the two affected states. 

[codyg1985]

Maybe the gas tax increase in Indiana will give them the incentive to rebuild the bridges in the future.  Then again Indiana seems to always give Evansville the shaft. 

Nexus 6P

Believe it or not, the bridges are located entirely within Kentucky.

True but Indiana has committed to a cost-sharing agreement with Kentucky on the bridges.

[silverback1065]

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though. 

[silverback1065]

I listened to the Interim Joint Committee on Transportation and a key takeaway is that Kentucky is in deep in road debt.  They are looking for money as it is.   Why spend that money when Louisville and Northern Kentucky need to improve?

the way kentucky is building roads currently you wouldnt think they have money issues. i'm sure hbelkins can answer this one

[rte66man]

Maybe the gas tax increase in Indiana will give them the incentive to rebuild the bridges in the future.  Then again Indiana seems to always give Evansville the shaft. 

Nexus 6P

Believe it or not, the bridges are located entirely within Kentucky.

True but Indiana has committed to a cost-sharing agreement with Kentucky on the bridges.

I thought the bridge(s) would be tolled.  If so, then I'm not seeing why KY's funding issues are a problem.

[Avalanchez71]

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though.

There is a significant portion of Kentucky on the "Indiana" side of the Ohio.  There is a whole state road, SR 3552 and a race track long past the approach of US 41 bridges.

[hbelkins]

I listened to the Interim Joint Committee on Transportation and a key takeaway is that Kentucky is in deep in road debt.  They are looking for money as it is.   Why spend that money when Louisville and Northern Kentucky need to improve?

Other than the Brent Spence Bridge replacement, Kentucky could spend not one single dollar in new construction in Louisville or Boone/Campbell/Kenton counties for the next 10 years and no one would ever notice the difference.

[vdeane]

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though. 

I'd consider the elevated parts of the approaches to be part of the bridge, so most of them actually do have part of the bridge over Indiana.

[hbelkins]

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though. 

I'd consider the elevated parts of the approaches to be part of the bridge, so most of them actually do have part of the bridge over Indiana.

The state line is the low-water mark on the north side of the Ohio River as it existed in 1792, when Kentucky became a state. Kentucky and Indiana do have maintenance agreements on the bridges -- Kentucky maintains some and Indiana maintains others. But the US 41 bridges are entirely in Kentucky because the course of the river changed significantly. I don't know when that occurred, but the fact remains that you don't cross the state line when you cross one of those bridges.

[silverback1065]

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though. 

I'd consider the elevated parts of the approaches to be part of the bridge, so most of them actually do have part of the bridge over Indiana.

The state line is the low-water mark on the north side of the Ohio River as it existed in 1792, when Kentucky became a state. Kentucky and Indiana do have maintenance agreements on the bridges -- Kentucky maintains some and Indiana maintains others. But the US 41 bridges are entirely in Kentucky because the course of the river changed significantly. I don't know when that occurred, but the fact remains that you don't cross the state line when you cross one of those bridges.

it must have change a lot since then, there's a road in evansville called riverside drive (not the piece that actually is near the shore) that is no where near the ohio. 

[SteveG1988]

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though. 

I'd consider the elevated parts of the approaches to be part of the bridge, so most of them actually do have part of the bridge over Indiana.

The state line is the low-water mark on the north side of the Ohio River as it existed in 1792, when Kentucky became a state. Kentucky and Indiana do have maintenance agreements on the bridges -- Kentucky maintains some and Indiana maintains others. But the US 41 bridges are entirely in Kentucky because the course of the river changed significantly. I don't know when that occurred, but the fact remains that you don't cross the state line when you cross one of those bridges.

it must have change a lot since then, there's a road in evansville called riverside drive (not the piece that actually is near the shore) that is no where near the ohio. 

According to wikipedia, the new madrid earthquake shifted the course of the river.

[silverback1065]

Wow

Nexus 6P

[Life in Paradise]

The New Madrid quake (and written/spoken stories from those that witnessed it-mostly Native Americans) and the possibility of a new quake are a small part of the thought about putting another crossing on the Ohio.  The current bridges are definitely not earthquake resistant. 

Of course, if there was another quake like the New Madrid (which was probably in the 8.0 range) you would likely have every bridge from Mississippi to north of St. Louis either destroyed or seriously damaged, and the same could be said on the Ohio from it's mouth to Louisville.  We'd be all screwed trying to cross the Ohio at that little ferry in Southern Illinois.

[Avalanchez71]

The Cave-in-Rock ferry.  I have been on that thing.  We would all be screwed if that was the only thing going.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky has done a lot of seismic retrofitting on bridges in the western part of the state over the past 20 or so years. (Tennessee, too; you can see some of the work along a lot of the US 51 overpasses between Dyersburg and Union City). I doubt there's much they could do to the old US 45 bridge, but I don't know what's been done to the I-24 bridge, the Shawneetown Bridge, or either of the current US 41 bridges. I'd say the new US 231 bridge was built to be seismic-resistant.

[sparker]

The New Madrid quake (and written/spoken stories from those that witnessed it-mostly Native Americans) and the possibility of a new quake are a small part of the thought about putting another crossing on the Ohio.  The current bridges are definitely not earthquake resistant. 

Of course, if there was another quake like the New Madrid (which was probably in the 8.0 range) you would likely have every bridge from Mississippi to north of St. Louis either destroyed or seriously damaged, and the same could be said on the Ohio from it's mouth to Louisville.  We'd be all screwed trying to cross the Ohio at that little ferry in Southern Illinois.

The Cave-in-Rock ferry.  I have been on that thing.  We would all be screwed if that was the only thing going.

If a 7.3+ quake hits the New Madrid, everyone in the affected area will be basically screwed in general -- never mind having to cross a river; that'd be way down the priority list!

[Rick Powell]

The New Madrid quake (and written/spoken stories from those that witnessed it-mostly Native Americans) and the possibility of a new quake are a small part of the thought about putting another crossing on the Ohio.  The current bridges are definitely not earthquake resistant. 

Of course, if there was another quake like the New Madrid (which was probably in the 8.0 range) you would likely have every bridge from Mississippi to north of St. Louis either destroyed or seriously damaged, and the same could be said on the Ohio from it's mouth to Louisville.  We'd be all screwed trying to cross the Ohio at that little ferry in Southern Illinois.

The Cave-in-Rock ferry.  I have been on that thing.  We would all be screwed if that was the only thing going.

If a 7.3+ quake hits the New Madrid, everyone in the affected area will be basically screwed in general -- never mind having to cross a river; that'd be way down the priority list!

In a national emergency, many things might be mobilized. Temporary ferry landings, and multiple ferry boats to take care of interstate-volume river crossings, and fast-track contracts like the I-35 Minneapolis bridge collapse that restored service within a year.

[Life in Paradise]

With a major Midwest/Mid-South earthquake, would cause a transportation headache for cars, trains, trucks, gas/oil, etc.  That doesn't even go into the extent that buildings would have to be fixed.  There would have to be a World War II type mobilization that could last a couple of decades to get everything fully back up and running the way it was before.  Let's hope that doesn't happen and we just quibble about how many lanes go on the new bridge, when they will actually get construction started, and will Tennessee bite the bullet and convert US 51 to I-69 this century.

Changing the subject, just how many people really care while traveling in KY, how many miles it is to Fulton?

[Avalanchez71]

With a major Midwest/Mid-South earthquake, would cause a transportation headache for cars, trains, trucks, gas/oil, etc.  That doesn't even go into the extent that buildings would have to be fixed.  There would have to be a World War II type mobilization that could last a couple of decades to get everything fully back up and running the way it was before.  Let's hope that doesn't happen and we just quibble about how many lanes go on the new bridge, when they will actually get construction started, and will Tennessee bite the bullet and convert US 51 to I-69 this century.

Changing the subject, just how many people really care while traveling in KY, how many miles it is to Fulton?

US 51 is more than sufficient in TN.

[hbelkins]

Changing the subject, just how many people really care while traveling in KY, how many miles it is to Fulton?

Interestingly, Fulton is signed along the former Pennyrile and WK Parkways that are now part of I-69. If you're traveling west on the WK, there are no mentions of Paducah beyond the Pennyrile interchange until you get to I-24. And oddly enough, the new signs there don't mention Fulton.

Conversely, if you're exiting I-24 onto the former WK, it's signed for Elizabethtown, not Henderson. You don't see Henderson signed until you get to the Pennyrile interchange.

[Avalanchez71]

What is the current to date status of I-69 signage in KY?  Wasn't there pork spending involved in the signage?

[sparker]

What is the current to date status of I-69 signage in KY?  Wasn't there pork spending involved in the signage?

HB is probably chapter & verse on this, but AFAIK I-69's current signage is on (a) the Pennyrile north of WKY, (b) the (former) WKY from I-24 to the Pennyrile, and (c) the multiplex with I-24 between the Purchase and former WKY parkways; signage of the Purchase won't happen until interchanges & transitions are modified.  The signage itself isn't "pork" per se but an integral part of the upgrade contracts.  Of course, if one considers the entire I-69 project to be "pork", then it would follow that the signage would fall into that category as well. 

[hbelkins]

HB is probably chapter & verse on this, but AFAIK I-69's current signage is on (a) the Pennyrile north of WKY, (b) the (former) WKY from I-24 to the Pennyrile, and (c) the multiplex with I-24 between the Purchase and former WKY parkways; signage of the Purchase won't happen until interchanges & transitions are modified.  The signage itself isn't "pork" per se but an integral part of the upgrade contracts.  Of course, if one considers the entire I-69 project to be "pork", then it would follow that the signage would fall into that category as well.

I-69 is signed from the I-24/Purchase Parkway interchange concurrent with I-24 to the exit for the former Western Kentucky Parkway. It is then signed to the Pennyrile Parkway interchange on the former WK, then along the former Pennyrile Parkway to the US 41 (former KY 425) exit south of Henderson. Signage was a separate contract for each segment (I-24/WK and Pennyrile) and wasn't done until the road upgrades were completed. There's still construction ongoing at the Mortons Gap interchange on the Pennyrile (KY 813) but it's nearly finished.

[sparker]

HB is probably chapter & verse on this, but AFAIK I-69's current signage is on (a) the Pennyrile north of WKY, (b) the (former) WKY from I-24 to the Pennyrile, and (c) the multiplex with I-24 between the Purchase and former WKY parkways; signage of the Purchase won't happen until interchanges & transitions are modified.  The signage itself isn't "pork" per se but an integral part of the upgrade contracts.  Of course, if one considers the entire I-69 project to be "pork", then it would follow that the signage would fall into that category as well.

I-69 is signed from the I-24/Purchase Parkway interchange concurrent with I-24 to the exit for the former Western Kentucky Parkway. It is then signed to the Pennyrile Parkway interchange on the former WK, then along the former Pennyrile Parkway to the US 41 (former KY 425) exit south of Henderson. Signage was a separate contract for each segment (I-24/WK and Pennyrile) and wasn't done until the road upgrades were completed. There's still construction ongoing at the Mortons Gap interchange on the Pennyrile (KY 813) but it's nearly finished.

Didn't know that signage was done in KY under separate contract; here in CA it's normally embedded in the final phase of paving and finishing.  Learn something new every day!

[hbelkins]

Didn't know that signage was done in KY under separate contract; here in CA it's normally embedded in the final phase of paving and finishing.  Learn something new every day!

In most new construction projects it is, but these were just spot improvements so they did signage for the entire corridors in separate contracts.