Interstate 73/74

[Strider]

I can now confirm that the I-74 signage in Forsyth County is nearly complete. There are changes on the overhead signage that now reads "I-74 EAST, US 311 SOUTH, HIGH POINT on both directions of I-40. I also managed to drive on I-74/US 311 and there are no more "FUTURE I-74/US 311" shields along the road. Somebody needs to go out there and take some photos.

[rickmastfan67]

I can now confirm that the I-74 signage in Forsyth County is nearly complete. There are changes on the overhead signage that now reads "I-74 EAST, US 311 SOUTH, HIGH POINT on both directions of I-40. I also managed to drive on I-74/US 311 and there are no more "FUTURE I-74/US 311" shields along the road. Somebody needs to go out there and take some photos.

Thanks for posting about the signage change.  I've now updated OSM with this info.

[I94RoadRunner]

Well, I have a more positive feeling with the I-73/I-74 multiplex; in fact I traveled on it from Greensboro, NC to Ellerbe in 2007. I see what the feds are trying to do, but is US 52 in West Virginia from Huntington to Bluefield so congested that I-73/I-74 have to go through there? I also wonder why Ohio gave up on it. I think US 23 from the Ohio River to Findley, OH should be an interstate corridor. I really think I-73 should be on the US 29 corridor from Greensboro to Washington as a good alternate to I-95. Has the NCDOT decided on what to do with US 74?

US 29 from Greensboro to Danville, VA is going to become I-785 some year. The remainder of US 29 north to Baltimore was proposed as an I-83 extension awhile ago. I-83 was thought of to follow the beltline instead of going through the city and then pick up the US 29 corridor just outside down to Greensboro. There are no active plans for this I-83 extension right now that I am aware of.

[bob7374]

I can now confirm that the I-74 signage in Forsyth County is nearly complete. There are changes on the overhead signage that now reads "I-74 EAST, US 311 SOUTH, HIGH POINT on both directions of I-40. I also managed to drive on I-74/US 311 and there are no more "FUTURE I-74/US 311" shields along the road. Somebody needs to go out there and take some photos.

Given the eyewitness reports, and a couple photos, I have updated my I-74 pages to declare the signing project in Forsyth County complete, before NCDOT confirmation. I have added the photos of the new signage to my I-74 Segment 5 Page: http://www.gribblenation.net/i7374nc/i74seg5.html and hope to post more soon.

[bob7374]

Future I-74 signing plans have been released by NCDOT as part of the materials released for the letting of the first phase of the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway project. The link is available at this page under Other Plans, Part III, the sign plans start a few pages in:
http://dotw-xfer01.dot.state.nc.us/dsplan/2014%20Highway%20Letting/10-21-14/Plans%20and%20Proposals/Forsyth%20U-2579B%20C203484%20%20E-Project/

From looking through the plans I have gleaned the following info:
1. The Beltway segment will be signed from Business 40/US 421 as Exit 12 NC 74 to US 158 initially.
2. The new exit numbers on the Beltway will be 53A/B for Business 40 and 50 for US 158 (one of the plans also has signs for the next segment to US 311, that will be Exit 49). As an aside, do you think NCDOT would be tempted to re-route (if they don't decommission) US 311 along the Beltway between the existing route and Exit 49 when the Loop is completed?
3. The plans show the initial and future signage for both Business 40 and US 158, the future signs having I-74 shields. Since the initial westbound only signs along Business 40 have NC 74 shields, this implies the route will be signed as I-74 when the segment east to I-40 is completed.
4. The eventual control cities for the completed Beltway will be, not surprisingly, High Point eastbound and Mt Airy westbound.

[WashuOtaku]

2. The new exit numbers on the Beltway will be 53A/B for Business 40 and 50 for US 158 (one of the plans also has signs for the next segment to US 311, that will be Exit 49). As an aside, do you think NCDOT would be tempted to re-route (if they don't decommission) US 311 along the Beltway between the existing route and Exit 49 when the Loop is completed?

Answer is no.  On the STI Project list, there is project #H090541, which is called the US 311 connector.  The plans call for a four-lane divided partial-control highway continuing north from I-40 exit 196 to I-40 Bus/US 421/US 158 exit 8.  Here's the link:  https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STIResults/H090541.pdf

[bob7374]

2. The new exit numbers on the Beltway will be 53A/B for Business 40 and 50 for US 158 (one of the plans also has signs for the next segment to US 311, that will be Exit 49). As an aside, do you think NCDOT would be tempted to re-route (if they don't decommission) US 311 along the Beltway between the existing route and Exit 49 when the Loop is completed?

Answer is no.  On the STI Project list, there is project #H090541, which is called the US 311 connector.  The plans call for a four-lane divided partial-control highway continuing north from I-40 exit 196 to I-40 Bus/US 421/US 158 exit 8.  Here's the link:  https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STIResults/H090541.pdf

You may be right. But, given that the 311 project, as ranked by the new NCDOT formula, gets a 0.00 divisional needs ranking, and is not meriting a regional or a statewide mobility ranking at all, it seems unlikely it will be built any time soon, especially with the much of the money for the are in the meantime going to the Beltway.   

[WashuOtaku]

2. The new exit numbers on the Beltway will be 53A/B for Business 40 and 50 for US 158 (one of the plans also has signs for the next segment to US 311, that will be Exit 49). As an aside, do you think NCDOT would be tempted to re-route (if they don't decommission) US 311 along the Beltway between the existing route and Exit 49 when the Loop is completed?

Answer is no.  On the STI Project list, there is project #H090541, which is called the US 311 connector.  The plans call for a four-lane divided partial-control highway continuing north from I-40 exit 196 to I-40 Bus/US 421/US 158 exit 8.  Here's the link:  https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/STIResults/H090541.pdf

You may be right. But, given that the 311 project, as ranked by the new NCDOT formula, gets a 0.00 divisional needs ranking, and is not meriting a regional or a statewide mobility ranking at all, it seems unlikely it will be built any time soon, especially with the much of the money for the are in the meantime going to the Beltway.

Yea, but its going to be several years for the section of I-74 to be done; and even if it is done before the connector project is built, I don't see them moving it over onto I-74 then later moving it to the connector when its finally built.  I also think AASHTO wouldn't approve the new routing if they were to go ahead and move it onto I-74, because it would be a better route than the connector; while the connector is a better routing than the current crap routing it has now through Winston-Salem.

[Strider]

I looked at the signage plans.. it is odd that they doesn't include NC 150 in the signage plans (NC 150 is now concurrent with Business 40 and US 421 from Exit 14 to Exit 5). Seems like they might be planning to move NC 150 back to the old road? (NC 150 used to run along Main St *Exit 14 off Bus 40* into Winston Salem before being rerouted along Bus 40/US 421 back in like 1990s or something like that)

[bob7374]

I looked at the signage plans.. it is odd that they doesn't include NC 150 in the signage plans (NC 150 is now concurrent with Business 40 and US 421 from Exit 14 to Exit 5). Seems like they might be planning to move NC 150 back to the old road? (NC 150 used to run along Main St *Exit 14 off Bus 40* into Winston Salem before being rerouted along Bus 40/US 421 back in like 1990s or something like that)

NCDOT may be just restricting the BGSs to two major routes only, like the current policy by MassDOT. The plans for the signage to be placed along Business 40 do include NC 150 shields as shown in one of the plans:


I have posted this and several other sign plans on my I-74 Segment 4 page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/i7374nc/i74seg4.html

[jcarte29]

Bob, on your segment 4 page, towards the middle, you still say that I-285 will be signed this year once the improvements to US 52 are completed. Is that still accurate, or unchanged from your last update on that page? Just curious...

[Strider]

I looked at the signage plans.. it is odd that they doesn't include NC 150 in the signage plans (NC 150 is now concurrent with Business 40 and US 421 from Exit 14 to Exit 5). Seems like they might be planning to move NC 150 back to the old road? (NC 150 used to run along Main St *Exit 14 off Bus 40* into Winston Salem before being rerouted along Bus 40/US 421 back in like 1990s or something like that)

NCDOT may be just restricting the BGSs to two major routes only, like the current policy by MassDOT. The plans for the signage to be placed along Business 40 do include NC 150 shields as shown in one of the plans:


I have posted this and several other sign plans on my I-74 Segment 4 page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/i7374nc/i74seg4.html

Maybe you're right, who knows.

Fixed quote. - rmf67

[Strider]

On the I-74 related news, On I-40 on the way to Winston-Salem, there is a "TO I-74, EXIT 193B" signage already in place (near US 52 interchange, of course).

[jcarte29]

So NCDOT reports the project is only 60 something pct completed. So if all the signs are up, what's left? Lol

[bob7374]

So NCDOT reports the project is only 60 something pct completed. So if all the signs are up, what's left? Lol

Good question. I don't suppose the contractor would give back any extra project funds they may get. There is one overhead in Guilford County on West I-74 before Exit 65, perhaps that's not up yet. Also some of the money may be going toward installation of trailblazer signage at the on-ramps, even if it was not specified in the signage plans.

[jcarte29]

So NCDOT reports the project is only 60 something pct completed. So if all the signs are up, what's left? Lol

Good question. I don't suppose the contractor would give back any extra project funds they may get. There is one overhead in Guilford County on West I-74 before Exit 65, perhaps that's not up yet. Also some of the money may be going toward installation of trailblazer signage at the on-ramps, even if it was not specified in the signage plans.

It won't add much to my trip, I'll swing through on my way to Atlanta (via Winston-Salem night stayover) to see if that sign is up.

[Strider]

So NCDOT reports the project is only 60 something pct completed. So if all the signs are up, what's left? Lol

Good question. I don't suppose the contractor would give back any extra project funds they may get. There is one overhead in Guilford County on West I-74 before Exit 65, perhaps that's not up yet. Also some of the money may be going toward installation of trailblazer signage at the on-ramps, even if it was not specified in the signage plans.

I think that might be it because the other time I drove on I-74 and took an exit off Union Cross Rd, there is no I-74 trailblazer signage on/off the ramp. That's probably why it is 60% complete, but other than that.. I don't know.

[MBHockey13]

So, NC was pre-mature:

http://www.news-record.com/news/i--designation-a-mix-up-in-forsyth-county-but/article_6524f0c0-2f78-11e4-a9eb-001a4bcf6878.html

"I-74 designation a 'mix-up' in Forsyth County, but will stay

Wesley Young Winston-Salem Journal | Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 8:31 am

New signs have been erected indicating that U.S. 311 between Winston-Salem and High Point is part of Interstate 74, but it appears that federal officials made a mistake when they made the designation.

The designation will remain, and state officials have agreed to upgrade the road in the future.

The new signs show I-74 and U.S. 311 peeling off from Interstate 40 on the southeast side of Winston-Salem. The new section of I-74 doesn't meet interstate standards until it gets to Guilford County, in part because it lacks the wide shoulders that interstate highways have for emergency stopping.

A letter in the online files of the N.C. Department of Transportation shows that federal highway officials believed the Forsyth County portion of the highway did meet interstate standards when they granting the road's addition to the interstate system:

"Our North Carolina Division Office confirms U.S. 311 from I-40 to S.R. 1993 [Main Street in High Point] ... has been completed to Interstate standards and meets a statutory requirement by connecting to existing I-40,"  wrote Victor Mendez, the U.S. deputy secretary of transportation and administrator of the Federal Highway Administration in a letter to the N.C. Department of Transportation dated Oct. 4, 2012.

Mendez was referring to the N.C. Division Office of the Federal Highway Administration in North Carolina, not any of the N.C. Department of Transportation offices.
State officials said the designation has been allowed to stand even though the road lacks shoulders of the proper width.
A spokesman for the Federal Highway Administration had no specifics on how the mix-up occurred, but confirmed what state officials are saying: North Carolina will eventually bring the section of roadway up to interstate standards. The I-74 designation will remain.

"It is clearly an oversight and the state is committed to making things right, and that's as far as it goes,"  said Doug Hecox, a spokesman for the Federal Highway Administration.
No timetable has been set for adding the shoulders that section of I-74 needs, said Kevin Lacy, the state's traffic engineer.

"We have agreed to bring those shoulders up to standards when we rebuild the roadway,"  Lacy said. "You have to have a minimum of 10 feet on the right and four feet on the left shoulder. We do not have a project identified to put shoulders on that road. Whenever we rebuild that road we will have to add shoulders."
The designation is significant because it makes the road eligible for federal maintenance money, and increases the state's interstate mileage by about 10 more miles than it would otherwise have been. That mileage in turn increases the money the state receives for interstate maintenance under the fund-apportionment formula.
The state had intended all along to eventually make U.S. 311 part of I-74.

The designation came after an exchange of letters between state and federal highway officials that started in 2011. On Jan. 6, 2011, State Highway Administrator Terry Gibson wrote to John Sullivan III, the division administrator for the Federal Highway Administration in North Carolina, requesting interstate designation for a different segment of highway.

That letter requested that the new High Point East Belt – U.S. 311 east of the Main Street exit in High Point – become part of I-74, and that the segment of U.S. 311 from Main Street to I-40 "be added to the Interstate system as a Future Interstate, a distance of 10.17 miles."
The letter noted that the new beltway around High Point and to points east "was recently completed to Interstate standards and open to traffic. The proposed I-74 route is a controlled access, divided, multi-lane freeway on a new location."

Lacy sent a follow-up letter on March 15, 2012, in which he repeated the request for adding road segments to "I-74 and future I-74."

Lacy goes on to mention that the "requested sections of I-74 were built to Interstate Standards at the time of construction."

When asked if the references to "sections"  – in the plural – may have led to some of the confusion, Lacy said that's possible. A little later in the letter Lacy does refer to "the above referenced section"  – in the singular – to refer the part of the road east of the Forsyth County segment that meets most interstate standards.
"I can't tell you the source of the confusion other than to speculate,"  Lacy said, commenting on his letter. "If that was part of it, it was by no means intentional."

I-74 in North Carolina currently exists in a number of segments that are connected by noninterstate roadways. In the north, I-74 peels off from I-77 south of the Virginia line and carries traffic to U.S. 52 near Mount Airy. When the Northern Beltway is build around the east side of Winston-Salem it will be part of I-74 linking to the newly designated portion that runs along with U.S. 311 to High Point.

Past High Point, newer sections of I-74 connect to Asheboro, where I-74 joins I-73 heading south toward Rockingham. From there to its eventual ending point near Myrtle Beach, S.C., I-74 exists only as a stretch of freeway from Rockingham to Lumberton.

Lacy said Monday that it is "extremely rare"  for the Federal Highway Administration to admit a section of highway into the interstate system without adequate shoulders.
"We did not ask for it at that time, but we were extremely appreciative,"  Lacy said. "Prior to us doing anything and announcing it, we followed up with the Federal Highway Administration and said we wanted to be clear. We verified that ... yes, there was a mixup somewhere. They asked us to send a letter saying that we would bring the shoulders up to standard."

Lacy said that if there was an error, "it was in citizens of North Carolina's favor"  because of the benefits flowing from the designation. He said that it is possible the federal authorities could have rescinded the designation.

"Some people may classify this as a mistake,"  Lacy said. "They gave us a rare exception, and it is a gift." :

[jcarte29]

This article is a complete joke. It was always known (if the paper did the proper research) that the Forsyth Co. portion would be an allowed exception and thus the signing project planned. This article is about 2 years late.

It's not like NCDOT "got one by" the Feds, the Feds told them they could do it as long as they repaired the shoulders in a future project.

[jcarte29]

This is from Robert Malme's I-74/73 website (http://www.gribblenation.net/i7374nc/index.html) Segment 5 (S.E. Forsyth county portion of now official I-74) that proves my point...

"In their response in October the FHWA indicated that, while the engineer's findings showed that not all of US 311 in Forsyth County was up to interstate standards (shoulders were too narrow), NCDOT would be allowed to sign the route from I-40 east (including the East Belt freeway (see I-74 Segment 6) to the freeway's current end at Cedar Square Road, a total of 22.1 miles) as I-74.(5) NCDOT agreed in turn to finance a project to bring US 311 in Forsyth up to standards at a later date."

[bob7374]

NCDOT released their latest Mobility Fund scores for regional and division projects that will be used to help determine what contracts are let over the next 10 years. A link to the press release, which has links to the scores is here:
https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=10335

The scores are not very good news for proposed I-73/I-74 projects. None of the projects have a score higher than 43.5 out of 100 for state mobility (and that is for the Winston-Salem Beltway, which future segments north of US 158 were unfunded by the previous formula score), nor over 35.2 out 70 for regional impact (also the Beltway), nor 21.6 out of 50 for Division needs (Beltway). The next scheduled project, the completion of the I-73/I-74 Rockingham Bypass is scored 8.8 statewide, 8.4 region, and 4.3 division.

Some good news is that several long-proposed projects are now being considered, including the upgrade of US 220 to interstate standards north to the VA line (highest rank, region 19 out of 70), upgrading US 74 between NC 41 and Whiteville (highest rank, region 13.2), building an 'Alt. I-74' from I-140 to US 17 near Supply (highest rank, state 15.3) (this ranks slightly higher than the official I-74 route from Whiteville to US 17), building the Carolina Bays Parkway Extension from US 17 to the SC line (highest rank, state, 31.8), plus there's an entry for building the Winston-Salem Beltway segments as toll facilities, this has a slightly higher score than the existing Beltway projects, state mobility of 44.1 vs. 43.5. It does appear, for now, if the formulas are not played with, that it will be a long time before a great many of these projects are completed.

[Strider]

That's why the State's mobility fund scores is a joke. The Western Rockingham bypass is already funded, and it is partially under construction right now. I think this may have to do with SCDOT not building their part of I-73 just yet (lack of funds, i hear).

[I94RoadRunner]

The Rockingham I-73/74 bypass is under construction .....? I thought I heard that nothing until at least 2018 for this project .....?

[Strider]

The Rockingham I-73/74 bypass is under construction .....? I thought I heard that nothing until at least 2018 for this project .....?

Not the actual bypass itself (that's in 2018). I am talking about the part near the end of southern temporary end of I-73/74 at US 220 (exit 25) is partially under construction.

[WashuOtaku]

This is why the Governor wants to get a billion dollars as a kickstarter for the rural highway projects that are simply not going to score well on the newer system.  If approved, some on the list of projects includes making all of US 74 (east of Asheville) to Interstate standards, completing the Rockingham Bypass and Winston-Salem Northern Loop.