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Largest municipalities/incorporated places without a state highway/road/route?

Started by geocachingpirate, March 10, 2015, 06:58:54 PM

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NE2

Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route.  It may even include an unmarked state road.
According to IDOT GIS data, they maintain South Boulevard north of Calvary Cemetery (several other streets including Dempster are tagged as having 'joint maintenance responsibility'). This may be an error, but in 2009 the state repaved it.

Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2015, 11:59:19 PM
Same here. An Interstate highway and an unsigned secondary state route are both state highways. But then what do we do with Minnesota? (CSAH)
State aid is not state maintenance any more than federal aid is federal maintenance.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".


Occidental Tourist

SoCal towns:

Huntington Park, CA (pop. 59k)
Cypress, CA  (pop. 49k)
Beverly Hills, CA  (pop. 35k) (SR-2 was relinquished to the City in 2005)
Walnut, CA (pop. 30k)
Maywood, CA (pop. 28k)
San Fernando, CA (pop. 24k)
Port Hueneme, CA (pop. 22k)

empirestate

Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 11:48:21 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 06:36:47 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 12:27:39 AM
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).

What about US-49 and US-90?  Those are both state roads.

49 & 90 are federal highways.

After further review, 605 does run through Gulfport. I was looking at an old map that didn't 605 signed. It appears now that the largest city without a state route is Clinton (about 26K).

As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route.  It may even include an unmarked state road.

Right, but the OP called for "state highways", an ambiguous term that could mean roads under state maintenance/ownership/jurisdiction–including US routes and Interstates–but that I believe was meant to refer to state-numbered routes. And as we all now by now, there are lots of state roads that aren't state routes (US routes, Interstates, unsigned or secondary highways, non-numbered systems like parkways, etc.), and there are lots of state routes that aren't state roads (most NY state-numbered routes along city streets, for example).

Indeed, if we apply the latter fact to the question, there might be a sizable city in NYS that has no state roads in it, because all of the NYS routes in the city run along city-maintained streets. (Although on reflection I sort of doubt it, since pretty much every city has at least one segment of freeway or arterial that is a bona-fide state road.)

doorknob60

If we're only counting signed state routes, then Bend, OR (~81k pop) has none. The two highways in Bend are US-97 and US-20. The Cascade Lakes Highway (Century Drive Highway) is in the state highway system (as are all state, US and interstate routes, with internal highways numbers unrelated to the signed route number; 372 in this case), but is not signed as a state route so I don't think it counts. If you're unfamiliar with how Oregon's highway system works, this might better explain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_named_state_highways_in_Oregon

1995hoo

If Interstate and US routes do not count, and only state routes count, then Washington DC (population around 659,000) would probably top the list since DC-295 is not a state route, regardless of what some politicians there might like you to believe. :bigass:
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

The FHWA considers DC a state for the purposes of its operations.  DC is essentially a de facto state from a purely roads point of view.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Revive 755

Quote from: NE2 on March 12, 2015, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route.  It may even include an unmarked state road.
According to IDOT GIS data, they maintain South Boulevard north of Calvary Cemetery (several other streets including Dempster are tagged as having 'joint maintenance responsibility'). This may be an error, but in 2009 the state repaved it.

Dempster is definitely still an unmarked state route, even if Evanston takes care of the day to day maintenance, IDOT still gets to make major decisions for the route.

A Cook County jurisdiction map has seven unmarked state routes in the city limits. (South Boulevard, Dempster Street, Asbury Avenue, Church Street, Crawford Avenue, Gross Point Road, and Green Bay Road).  Depending on the source, Golf Road/Emmerson Street is also state for a hundred feet or so inside the western boundary.

EDIT:  It does appears though that Cook County is not keeping that map up to date on some of the transfers to other local agencies, as I am finding a few routes still shown as state that have definitely been transferred.

froggie

Pending clarification from the OP on just what he meant by "state highway", I'm with Brandon in that I interpret it to be state designated/state maintained highway.  In that regard, U.S. highways and Interstates are "state highways".  While Interstates fall under FHWA oversight, they are still owned by the states or state-designated authorities (i.e. city of Baltimore for I-83 or various toll authorities for tolled routes).

The only thing "federal" about the U.S. routes is that they were intended as a uniform route marking system that crossed state lines.  Otherwise, they are VERY MUCH part of each respective state's highways.

So on that note, I did a quick check via GIS of Mississippi, and the largest incorporated town I could find without a state highway is Friars Point (pop 1200) in northern Coahoma County near the Mississippi River.

In Minnesota, the largest by far is Andover (pop 30,598).

I'm guessing (also pending clarification) that the OP was referring to largest-population towns and not largest-landarea towns as a few responses have been.

Mr. Matté

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 13, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
If Interstate and US routes do not count, and only state routes count, then Washington DC (population around 659,000) would probably top the list since DC-295 is not a state route, regardless of what some politicians there might like you to believe. :bigass:

No, Philadelphia would then win since I-76, PA 611, etc. are maintained by the Commonwealth (not state) of Pennsylvania.

NE2

Quote from: froggie on March 14, 2015, 02:28:05 PM
So on that note, I did a quick check via GIS of Mississippi, and the largest incorporated town I could find without a state highway is Friars Point (pop 1200) in northern Coahoma County near the Mississippi River.
Which is, however, on a legislatively-defined unmaintained (and unsigned) extension of MS 316: http://mdot.ms.gov/documents/planning/Maps/State%20Designated%20State%20Maintained.pdf

Quote from: Mr. Matté on March 14, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
No, Philadelphia would then win since I-76, PA 611, etc. are maintained by the Commonwealth (not state) of Pennsylvania.
The only thing better than nitpicking is incorrect nitpicking.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

DTComposer

Quote from: TheStranger on March 11, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
California's largest city without a numbered route running through it is Huntington Park (58K) near Los Angeles, in part because the Route 90 freeway gap from Marina Del Rey to Orange County will never be completed.

Isn't Gardena just a tiny bit bigger? (59K) And CA-91 now ends at the Gardena city limit?

JCinSummerfield

Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list.  M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city.  If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.

1995hoo

Quote from: Mr. Matté on March 14, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 13, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
If Interstate and US routes do not count, and only state routes count, then Washington DC (population around 659,000) would probably top the list since DC-295 is not a state route, regardless of what some politicians there might like you to believe. :bigass:

No, Philadelphia would then win since I-76, PA 611, etc. are maintained by the Commonwealth (not state) of Pennsylvania.

Difference is, a "commonwealth" in that context is just a fancier term for a state and it has no legal significance. The District of Columbia is not a state (regardless of the FHWA treating it as one).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

dfwmapper

Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 15, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list.  M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city.  If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Google Maps shows that several miles of I-94 are within the city limits, and portions of I-94, US 23, and M-14 (centerlines?) serve as the city limits. Not even close, at least if Google is accurate.

empirestate

Quote from: dfwmapper on March 15, 2015, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 15, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list.  M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city.  If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Google Maps shows that several miles of I-94 are within the city limits, and portions of I-94, US 23, and M-14 (centerlines?) serve as the city limits. Not even close, at least if Google is accurate.

Well, it would be close if M-14 did indeed just trace the city limits, but it appears to have long stretches wholly inside the boundary (again, according to Google, which is presumably TIGER data, and thus as accurate as you're likely to find without actually going to city hall).

hotdogPi

One that actually just barely misses is Melrose, MA (population 27000). MA 99 goes just barely inside.

EDIT: Nantucket (population 10000) won't win, but at least the fact that it has no numbered highways is indisputable.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

hbelkins

Has this place become Facebook, where posts disappear randomly? I could have sworn I posted in this topic, but I can't see my post.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

hotdogPi

Quote from: hbelkins on March 15, 2015, 05:05:04 PM
Has this place become Facebook, where posts disappear randomly? I could have sworn I posted in this topic, but I can't see my post.

I cannot see your post either. If it existed, what number reply was it?
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

roadman65

Quote from: 1 on March 15, 2015, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 15, 2015, 05:05:04 PM
Has this place become Facebook, where posts disappear randomly? I could have sworn I posted in this topic, but I can't see my post.

I cannot see your post either. If it existed, what number reply was it?
Unless you post something political or get into a flame war, it should not be removed. 

Check other posts or go through your own history.  Sometimes I post in one topic and then go to a similar one days later trying to find that one post and its not there of course.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on March 15, 2015, 06:24:17 PM
He made a troll comment about Carl Rogers.

The CalRog comment was funny.  What happened after was not.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

bing101

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on March 12, 2015, 11:40:27 PM
SoCal towns:

Huntington Park, CA (pop. 59k)
Cypress, CA  (pop. 49k)
Beverly Hills, CA  (pop. 35k) (SR-2 was relinquished to the City in 2005)
Walnut, CA (pop. 30k)
Maywood, CA (pop. 28k)
San Fernando, CA (pop. 24k)
Port Hueneme, CA (pop. 22k)

Wait I thought CA-118 at I-210 interchange is within San Fernando City Limits right?

tdindy88

Took me a while to come up with the largest municiaplities for indiana, but here we go:

The largest community without a state route only would be Carmel (pop. 85k.) I-465, US 31 and US 421 pass through, but no state roads.

The largest community with no INDOT-maintained highways running through, the home of the Indy 500, Speedway (pop. 12k.) I-465 does form the western edge but is never fully within the city and with US 136's truncation a few years back that highway only hits the western edge. Close enough.

bulldog1979

Quote from: empirestate on March 15, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 15, 2015, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 15, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list.  M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city.  If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Google Maps shows that several miles of I-94 are within the city limits, and portions of I-94, US 23, and M-14 (centerlines?) serve as the city limits. Not even close, at least if Google is accurate.

Well, it would be close if M-14 did indeed just trace the city limits, but it appears to have long stretches wholly inside the boundary (again, according to Google, which is presumably TIGER data, and thus as accurate as you're likely to find without actually going to city hall).

Just to check, I pulled up MDOT's Physical Reference Finder Map, which has the official city limits, and Ann Arbor has several state highways within its boundaries.

  • Most of the ROW for US 23 on the east side is just outside the city limits, but between Packard and the south side of the cloverleaf for Washtenaw Avenue, it is in the city. Part of the ROW at the Plymouth Road interchange is in the city as well.
  • Bus US 23/M-14 crosses through part of the city at the Huron River. M-14 continues through the city west to Maple Road, exits and then re-enters the city to the west side of the ramps for Miller Road.
  • I-94 runs through the city from Wagner Road to Liberty Road, where the boundary runs next to the I-94 ROW. The line zig-zags back and forth to encompass sections of the ROW from there until the State Street interchange. From there until Ellsworth Road, I-94 is firmly within the city.
  • Any segments of BL I-94 and Bus US 23 that aren't on the freeways are within the city, and yes, those are considered state highways by MDOT; the department has jurisdiction and control over business routes in the state



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