TX: Collin County wants new limited-access highways

[MaxConcrete]

Correspondence included in the documents for this month's Regional Transportation Council Meeting include an item in which Collin County and several city governments are pushing to begin planning for three new freeway/tollways.

The big news is that they want US 380 to be a freeway-type facility for its full length through Collin County. Not designating US 380 as a freeway years ago was a huge planning mistake. Recently some officials were saying it was too late to designate it as a freeway due to development, but obviously they have concluded it can be done. While this is great news, it will be very difficult and maybe impossible to extend the freeway west of Collin County into Denton County to a logical terminus in Denton, since the Denton County section is heavily urbanized and on a narrow right-of-way. Nevertheless, getting it done on Collin County would be hugely beneficial.

The new north-south freeway is somewhat of a surprise, and appears to be partially in response to opposition to the widening of US 75 in Plano and Richardson. While this route will be helpful, I think it will have limited potential to relieve US 75.

And then there is the SH 78 freeway. With the recent public opposition blowup over the proposed Blacklands Turnpike and its swift cancellation, I see this proposal as being the most difficult to realize.

It remains to be seen how far these corridors proceed, but it has to start somewhere, and having the strong political support is a good start.

The already planned Collin County Outer loop remains in the plans, but the section east of US 75 appears to be lower priority.

Link to document with details
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/committees/rtc/2016/05May/Ref.Itm_3.7.rtc051216.pdf


Larger map https://1968d90e831cd27d2017897e0c81e9a12852eb10.googledrive.com/host/0B4gwdXQk1LyieHZHSTBqd0VJSnc/aaroads/2016-new-freeways-collin-county.jpg

[Wayward Memphian]

That north/south route has more to do with the airport going after commercial passenger service and a terminal that would be on the east side of the runway.

[Chris]

Is the current Collin County Outer Loop road from US 75 to SH 121 (south of Anna) the future westbound frontage road? There seems to be a demaracation line south of the current two-lane road that is consistently 500 ft wide from US 75 to SH 121.

[MaxConcrete]

Is the current Collin County Outer Loop road from US 75 to SH 121 (south of Anna) the future westbound frontage road? There seems to be a demaracation line south of the current two-lane road that is consistently 500 ft wide from US 75 to SH 121.

Yes, that is the future westbound frontage road (currently used for both directions of traffic) and it appears that the standard corridor width is 500 feet for the Collin County Outer loop.

If you look at some of the schematics for future projects on the official project web site, they all show a 500-foot-wide right-of-way.

http://www.collincountytx.gov/mobility/Pages/outerloop.aspx

I'm definitely glad to see that a corridor width sufficiently wide to meet all potential future needs is being planned. I just hope the corridor width does not get downsized due to budget constraints.

Photos taken March 2014

[Road Hog]

The other way you can tell the frontage road is westbound is the storm drains are all on the north side (i.e. the outside shoulder).

[rte66man]

The other way you can tell the frontage road is westbound is the storm drains are all on the north side (i.e. the outside shoulder).

I had never thought of that... nice catch!

Will have to start paying more attention to frontage roads 

[The Ghostbuster]

The way Texas builds roads, I'd be very surprised if Collin County does not get its wish.

[MaxConcrete]

On August 12 the Dallas Morning News reported on efforts to develop a long-term plan to accommodate Collin County's growth. It appears that political leaders are serious about planning for new transportation corridors.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/20160812-collin-county-growth-creating-traffic-time-bomb-officials-say-we-have-to-get-moving-on-it.ece

Excerpt

New highway corridors identified

While Collin's ultimate growth projections may be decades away, officials said cities need to start planning now. According to county officials, in the last few years Collin County was the 33rd-fastest-growing county in the nation. And it was home to three of the fastest-growing cities in the state with a population of over 50,000 people: Frisco, Allen and McKinney.

The study shows that with that growth, several of the main roads in Collin County are already at capacity – if not already exceeding it. Highways such as Central Expressway and U.S. Highway 380 as well as city streets such as Preston Road already carry more cars than they were built to hold.

County commissioners in February unanimously approved a resolution that calls for four corridors be turned into major highways. That includes U.S. Highway 380, a small east-west highway that bisects the county, and State Highway 78, a north-south road in the southeastern corner of the county.

The plan would also include a new highway north of U.S. 380 that would initially connect the Dallas North Tollway and Central Expressway and eventually become part of a massive loop around the entire region. And there would be a new north-south highway east of Allen and west of Lake Lavon.

Wylie city manager Mindy Manson said a north-south highway is badly needed.

"There has to be some alternate road, and that's one of the things that needs to be studied,"  she said of Highway 78 that runs east of Lake Lavon. "If there is a wreck you almost, very literally, have to go around a lake. It can be a bit of a choke point as southeast Collin County and the north part of Rockwall County continue to develop."

But new highways don't necessarily solve congestion woes. In fact, the extra road capacity can lure more drivers, which only begets more traffic. New and expanded roads also spur more sprawling development. And increased distances between origins and destinations can be a major factor in increased commute times.

"How much we pay for housing and transportation, how long we spend commuting to and from work, economic opportunities in our communities and even personal health are all connected to how our neighborhoods and surrounding areas are built,"  concluded the report Measuring Sprawl 2014 from Smart Growth America, a group the advocates for denser urban neighborhoods.

[Chris]

Collin County is in fact the 5th fastest growing large county in the U.S. (population over 500,000). I doubt if the people who move there are seeking high-density living environments.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/005204-population-growth-largest-counties-texas-florida-and-south

[NE2]

I doubt they're seeking super high temperatures either, but that's what their choices are getting them...

[MaxConcrete]

Controversy has already erupted over the proposed McKinney bypass. I certainly hope those bypasses way to the north don't ultimately get selected. As I've complained previously, today's environmental processes often result in highly inefficient and even ridiculous alignments. There appears to be substantial opposition to the Bloomdale alignment. As the article notes, Mckinney is going to identify more options and TxDOT is going to perform its own independent study. If TxDOT agrees a bypass is best, I'm hoping the Wilmeth alignment prevails.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/collin-county/2017/02/22/collin-county-homeowners-say-plan-expand-highway-380-just-punch-gut

[Road Hog]

Wilmeth is just about straight out as an option because the subdivisions have already encroached on it west of 75, plus McKinney North High School is right there on it.

Bloomdale has more room, but it would be a shame to tear out that new interchange they just built across 75 for scores of millions of dollars.

[Brian556]

Quote from NE2:

I doubt they're seeking super high temperatures either, but that's what their choices are getting them...

Texas is the worst for continuous hot rain-free weather. The high just parks itself over Texas all and stays all summer.

[Bobby5280]

If I had to bet money on which alignment would be chosen, sadly, I'd put my money on the Laud Howell alignment. It sucks that it's 3 miles North of US-380. But there's just too much development along the Wilmeth and Bloomdale alignments.

More bad news: I think the planners are being rather optimistic if they think they can tie this McKinney bypass back into US-380 near Stonebridge Drive. It's already a difficult proposition to build any super highway on the existing US-380 alignment between Denton and McKinney. Business and residential developments are encroaching that corridor rapidly.

20 years ago the US-380 corridor between Denton and McKinney was mostly rural farm land. TX DOT should have converted the highway to a 4 lane facility with a huge median back then, just like TX-121 between Lewisville and McKinney. They didn't do that, even though there were clear signs back then the suburbs North of Dallas were going to grow like mad.

I think the planners are going to be stuck with the Laud Howell alignment and be forced to use Frontier Parkway (FM 1461) for Western expansion toward Denton. The Lincoln Park, Navo, Savannah, Propser, Prestwyck and Red Bud Estates neighborhoods have swallowed those parts of US-380. The new highway might be able to re-join US-380 at the US-377 interchange near the Ray Roberts/Lewisville Lake Greenbelt crossing. Chances are just as good a new river crossing would be needed so the bypass could tie into Loop 288 around Denton.

[MaxConcrete]

I'm thinking that if there is serious opposition to the north bypass, TxDOT may take a look at the existing alignment through McKinney. Even though it would require a large, costly clearance of commercial property, commercial property owners rarely show any resistance to relocation. Neighborhoods, on the other hand, fight like hell.

So it may be more feasible to clear commercial property, especially since most of the properties along US 380 are fast food restaurants and similar lower-tier properties. I see only one neighborhood which would be affected.

[Bobby5280]

To me it looks like the toughest squeeze between Denton and McKinney is the Navo and Savannah neighborhoods. Google Earth imagery shows a new school and football field right next to US-380 and Navo Rd. Most of the other buildings through there are commercial. Replacing US-380 with a new freeway would have that freeway right up against the back yards of lots of homes.

Even though it seems plausible in one respect, I would be pretty surprised if TX DOT did choose to upgrade US-380 into a freeway through the center of McKinney. The amount of property to be cleared would be on a scale like that of the Katy Freeway project in Houston.

[mgk920]

Another thing to keep in mind is that if the bypass is too far away, it won't draw through traffic off of that existing road, requiring it to be majorly upgraded anyways.

Mike

[In_Correct]

If they try to upgrade current U.S. 380 through McKinney, then they should also be able to upgrade current U.S. 380 through Denton. There would be businesses that would have to be moved out of the way, but there are much fewer businesses south of current U.S. 380. New Interchanges and other Bridges would also have to be widened.

[Anthony_JK]

It seems to me, though, from reading the articles on the opposition, that they would be opposed to any freeway upgrades anywhere, and would probably prefer either status quo or alternative transportation modes such as rail or bus transit.

This is one case where corridor preservation from the beginning could have avoided this situation from the start.

[In_Correct]

Rail would also require many new tracks to be built. There are too many single track rail that needs to add at least a double track or even more than two tracks if they are going to be using the freight rail roads. There should also be grade separations. But perhaps it would be easy to do this.

[Road Hog]

If I had to bet money on which alignment would be chosen, sadly, I'd put my money on the Laud Howell alignment. It sucks that it's 3 miles North of US-380. But there's just too much development along the Wilmeth and Bloomdale alignments.

More bad news: I think the planners are being rather optimistic if they think they can tie this McKinney bypass back into US-380 near Stonebridge Drive. It's already a difficult proposition to build any super highway on the existing US-380 alignment between Denton and McKinney. Business and residential developments are encroaching that corridor rapidly.

20 years ago the US-380 corridor between Denton and McKinney was mostly rural farm land. TX DOT should have converted the highway to a 4 lane facility with a huge median back then, just like TX-121 between Lewisville and McKinney. They didn't do that, even though there were clear signs back then the suburbs North of Dallas were going to grow like mad.

I think the planners are going to be stuck with the Laud Howell alignment and be forced to use Frontier Parkway (FM 1461) for Western expansion toward Denton. The Lincoln Park, Navo, Savannah, Propser, Prestwyck and Red Bud Estates neighborhoods have swallowed those parts of US-380. The new highway might be able to re-join US-380 at the US-377 interchange near the Ray Roberts/Lewisville Lake Greenbelt crossing. Chances are just as good a new river crossing would be needed so the bypass could tie into Loop 288 around Denton.

Using FM 1461 puts the bypass within just two miles of the proposed Collin County Outer Loop.

[Stephane Dumas]

Using FM 1461 puts the bypass within just two miles of the proposed Collin County Outer Loop.

We could wonder if the Collin County Outer Loop and the US-380 proposed freeway could share the same alignement but having a set of separate carriageways like the TX-114/121 short multiplex? http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.92465,-97.06494&z=15&t=M

[dfwmapper]

Doesn't make sense. There's no money to build the Outer Loop except via tolls, and now you want to take away toll revenue? Tolled express lanes only work if the main lanes are over capacity enough to convince people it's a good idea to use them, and the Outer Loop will probably never be that congested in our lifetimes.

[Brian556]

Look what Denton County has in their thoroughfare plan:
http://dentoncounty.com/Pages/Thoroughfare-Plan.aspx

[In_Correct]

Did that map actually label U.S. 377 as a 4 lane divided highway through the entire county?