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More Kmart stores closing

Started by LM117, September 19, 2016, 06:00:32 PM

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DeaconG

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 17, 2017, 02:34:01 PM
All of that may be true, but that's up to the shareholders/Board to decide. It's not illegal to liquidate/ruin a company.

The problem is when it starts becoming the norm instead of the exception. Hey, my mom retired from Sears after 22 years; she left around the first round of corporate fuckery in 1991-92 that was known as 'conversion', where they dumped Dean Witter and Allstate and let a lot of people go, when she saw her I-bleed-Sears-blue-will-die-for-Sears store manager put in his papers, she knew something was wrong and put hers in too. Lucky woman. (There's a story about how I lost my mother in a Sears store, but that's for later).

Increasingly companies are going away because of the very thing you say isn't illegal, but there are economic repercussions when it becomes the norm. This is why when folks blame Amazon for the decline of brick and mortar stores I point to Sears and say "They had all the advantages to stand up to Amazon and they deliberately pissed it away to make increasingly smaller amounts of money for shareholders who are now going 'what the hell are you doing?'" Those shareholders are also mutual fund and pension funds...and that has repercussions on anyone who holds this garbage in their 401k's or brokerage accounts.

In closing: there are six groups of people who are tied to companies and only one of those groups gets away with a profit when the company fails-the MANAGEMENT. The shareholders lose their investment, the bondholders usually have to sue to get their money back, the employees get kicked to the curb, the vendors and suppliers get their cash flows wrecked (which then means they have to consider layoffs as well) and the customers get no technical support or repairs, and forget your maintenance plans-they go POOF.

It may not be illegal; but at the very least it's dishonest, it's an abandonment of their fiduciary responsibility, it's not moral and there are financial repercussions.
Dawnstar: "You're an ape! And you can talk!"
King Solovar: "And you're a human with wings! Reality holds surprises for everyone!"
-Crisis On Infinite Earths #2


thenetwork

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 16, 2017, 02:11:34 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 13, 2017, 11:49:59 AM
Another reason why Walmart stole the crowds of Kmart:  During their initial national growth in the 90s, they struck a chord with the population pushing their "Made In The USA" credo at the time.  Once Walmart surpassed Target and Kmart as the discount store leader, they quietly dropped that moniker and more of their products were foreign made again.

Kmart only responded with coming up with the 3 flavors of their store:  Regular K-mart, Big K and Super K (their version of Walmart) with only slight remodels to existing original stores.

Target also tried that 3 flavor approach for a while with regular Target, Target Greatland, and Super Target (although I've never heard of a Super Target being anywhere in the Northeast)

If you think about it, the original Kmart "Supercenters" were the Kmarts themselves.  They were the new 2nd flavor of S.S. Kresge's, which slowly were phased out in favor of the larger Kmarts.  You were hard-pressed to find any S.S. Kresge "five and dime" stores by the end of the 70s.

AlexandriaVA

Quote from: DeaconG on July 17, 2017, 02:56:18 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 17, 2017, 02:34:01 PM
All of that may be true, but that's up to the shareholders/Board to decide. It's not illegal to liquidate/ruin a company.

The problem is when it starts becoming the norm instead of the exception. Hey, my mom retired from Sears after 22 years; she left around the first round of corporate fuckery in 1991-92 that was known as 'conversion', where they dumped Dean Witter and Allstate and let a lot of people go, when she saw her I-bleed-Sears-blue-will-die-for-Sears store manager put in his papers, she knew something was wrong and put hers in too. Lucky woman. (There's a story about how I lost my mother in a Sears store, but that's for later).

Increasingly companies are going away because of the very thing you say isn't illegal, but there are economic repercussions when it becomes the norm. This is why when folks blame Amazon for the decline of brick and mortar stores I point to Sears and say "They had all the advantages to stand up to Amazon and they deliberately pissed it away to make increasingly smaller amounts of money for shareholders who are now going 'what the hell are you doing?'" Those shareholders are also mutual fund and pension funds...and that has repercussions on anyone who holds this garbage in their 401k's or brokerage accounts.

In closing: there are six groups of people who are tied to companies and only one of those groups gets away with a profit when the company fails-the MANAGEMENT. The shareholders lose their investment, the bondholders usually have to sue to get their money back, the employees get kicked to the curb, the vendors and suppliers get their cash flows wrecked (which then means they have to consider layoffs as well) and the customers get no technical support or repairs, and forget your maintenance plans-they go POOF.

It may not be illegal; but at the very least it's dishonest, it's an abandonment of their fiduciary responsibility, it's not moral and there are financial repercussions.

Shareholders ultimately set policy. Plus if the shareholders are shorting the company, then they profit off of the company's decline (a controversial but utterly legal tactic).

vdeane

Perhaps in theory, but in practice, shareholders don't set company policy any more than voters set the policy of Congress.  Political dynamics touch all aspects of human society.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 17, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
Quote from: DeaconG on July 17, 2017, 02:56:18 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 17, 2017, 02:34:01 PM
All of that may be true, but that's up to the shareholders/Board to decide. It's not illegal to liquidate/ruin a company.

The problem is when it starts becoming the norm instead of the exception. Hey, my mom retired from Sears after 22 years; she left around the first round of corporate fuckery in 1991-92 that was known as 'conversion', where they dumped Dean Witter and Allstate and let a lot of people go, when she saw her I-bleed-Sears-blue-will-die-for-Sears store manager put in his papers, she knew something was wrong and put hers in too. Lucky woman. (There's a story about how I lost my mother in a Sears store, but that's for later).

Increasingly companies are going away because of the very thing you say isn't illegal, but there are economic repercussions when it becomes the norm. This is why when folks blame Amazon for the decline of brick and mortar stores I point to Sears and say "They had all the advantages to stand up to Amazon and they deliberately pissed it away to make increasingly smaller amounts of money for shareholders who are now going 'what the hell are you doing?'" Those shareholders are also mutual fund and pension funds...and that has repercussions on anyone who holds this garbage in their 401k's or brokerage accounts.

In closing: there are six groups of people who are tied to companies and only one of those groups gets away with a profit when the company fails-the MANAGEMENT. The shareholders lose their investment, the bondholders usually have to sue to get their money back, the employees get kicked to the curb, the vendors and suppliers get their cash flows wrecked (which then means they have to consider layoffs as well) and the customers get no technical support or repairs, and forget your maintenance plans-they go POOF.

It may not be illegal; but at the very least it's dishonest, it's an abandonment of their fiduciary responsibility, it's not moral and there are financial repercussions.

Shareholders ultimately set policy. Plus if the shareholders are shorting the company, then they profit off of the company's decline (a controversial but utterly legal tactic).

Do you own any stock in any company?! Have you ever attended a stockholder's meeting of any company?!  Ever heard of concept called "Board of Directors?!" They hold the largest amount of stock of said company. They get to set policy, not Joe & Jane stockholder.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

DeaconG

^^^Not necessarily. According to Wikipedia, "In a stock corporation, non-executive directors are voted for by the shareholders and the board is the highest authority in the management of the corporation. The board of directors appoints the chief executive officer of the corporation and sets out the overall strategic direction."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_directors

Now, while they get to set policy they don't necessarily get a free hand as to doing whatever they want, they have to submit major proposals to the shareholders at large to be voted on. Depending on the bylaws of the corporation, the vote may or may not be binding. Large institutional investors may give the board a proxy to vote for them but that does not mean that the board members own the shares.

In addition, whether the shareholders have a right to exercise a vote can depend on whether the voting rights are for all stock (common and preferred) or just preferred only. Generally, if you have a 401k from your company and part of your contribution goes toward shares of your company you get voting rights of 'equivalent shares' based on how much of your money is in their stock and what the value of the stock is when they submit a proposal to the stockholders. Generally, those equivalent shares are common stock...but it doesn't mean that the board has to accede to the will of the shareholders if the vote doesn't go their way.

Two cases off the top of my head: about 10 years ago, Disney decided to change their auditor from Ernst and Young to PWC, so they put it to a vote of the shareholders. 70 percent of the shareholders voted to keep Ernst and Young. Disney's reply? "Yes, we heard you, but we think PWC is the better call. Thanks for playing."

Late in the 2000's Comcast wanted to buy AT&T Broadband and several of the large institutional investors didn't like the idea at all, they thought AT&T Broadband was a bad play and let the board know it. The Roberts family, who controlled 30 percent of the stock came back with this: "The only stock that has voting rights is the preferred stock. Your stock is common stock, OUR stock is preferred; we're buying AT&T Broadband, deal with it."
The institutional investors were livid, but they had no game.

What you might be thinking about, and what happens quite a bit, is if you have an activist shareholder or large institutional group that will offer to buy a large amount of stock in the company in exchange for one or more board of director's seats, especially if the company is a startup and needs the money or the company's financials aren't looking great but the investors think that they can get 'value' out of the company. (It was also one of the major contributors to the Dotcom bust of the early 2000's). Usually that threshold is 5% or greater (under SEC rules the investors have to divulge who they are at that point) and can be much greater than that; in any case, you could have a situation where the majority of the board of directors are basically representing one or two large institutional investors and so they will dominate any discussion of what direction the company goes.
Dawnstar: "You're an ape! And you can talk!"
King Solovar: "And you're a human with wings! Reality holds surprises for everyone!"
-Crisis On Infinite Earths #2

LM117

“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

LM117

Sears struck a deal with Amazon.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurengensler/2017/07/20/sears-to-sell-kenmore-appliances-on-amazon-stock-jumps/#36f5cc515a74

QuoteYou'll soon be able to buy Kenmore appliances on Amazon.

Sears said on Thursday that it will start selling its full line of Kenmore-branded appliances on Amazon, in an attempt by the struggling retailer to bolster sales.

Shares of Sears jumped 22% in pre-market trading.

This marks the broadest distribution of Kenmore appliances outside of Sears stores and its own websites, the company said.

"We continuously look for opportunities to enhance the reach of our iconic brands to more customers and create additional value from our assets," said Sears CEO Eddie Lampert.

Sears has been trying to stay in business after years of declining sales and big losses. It has been closing stores, slashing costs, selling off real estate and parting ways with some of its brands.

Sears sold its Craftsman brand to Stanley Black & Decker for $900 million earlier this year, and had been exploring its options for its Kenmore appliance and Diehard car part brands. However, its partnership with Amazon looks like an attempt to hold onto the brand while trying to reignite sales and reach new customers.

"This collaboration is the first of its kind for Kenmore, broadening its accessibility to the next generation of American families outside of Sears branded retail channels," said Tom Park, president of the Kenmore, Craftsman and DieHard brands at Sears.

The Kenmore line of smart appliances have also been linked up to Amazon Alexa, the retailer said. Customers can ask Alexa to change the temperature on their air conditioner, for instance, without getting up from the couch. Kenmore's smart air conditioners, starting at $380, are already on sale on Amazon and are eligible for Amazon Prime's two-day shipping.

Sears was once the biggest retailer in America and its famous catalogs were found in homes across the country. However, it has not fared well amid competition from retailers like Wal-Mart and Amazon. Its physical footprint in the U.S. has shrunk from 3,400 stores a decade ago to just 1,400 stores.

Terms of the deal were not disclosed.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

inkyatari

I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.

SP Cook

Two issues.

- Sears has not really made Kenmore items for many years.  Mostly they are just rebadged products made in Asia or Latn America from other manufacturers.  So you can pay Amazon to buy you an air conditioner from Sears and also pay Sears to buy the same air conditioner from LG, who actually made it.  The type of people who still think Kenmore is "solid as Sears" are the least likely to be Amazon people.  Which is to say old people.  Why not just buy an LG and cut out Sears?

- The UPS man is NOT going to deliver a refrigerator to your house.  So, you buy a refrigertor from Amazon.  All Amazon is doing, other than making a profit, is passing that order on to the nearest Sears store which will deliver it to you.  Fine until Sears goes bankrupt in a year and then what?  Amazon is going to have a delivery set up, nationwide, for items that you only buy once a decade or less?   Why would I not just deal directly with Lowes or Home Depot or their regional competitors?

As to the Alexa thing, Alexa will mate with any "smart" thermostat.  I have seen the "smart" refrigerator, I don't get the point of it.   

cl94

Quote from: SP Cook on July 25, 2017, 11:25:11 AM
- Sears has not really made Kenmore items for many years.  Mostly they are just rebadged products made in Asia or Latn America from other manufacturers.  So you can pay Amazon to buy you an air conditioner from Sears and also pay Sears to buy the same air conditioner from LG, who actually made it.  The type of people who still think Kenmore is "solid as Sears" are the least likely to be Amazon people.  Which is to say old people.  Why not just buy an LG and cut out Sears?

Has Kenmore EVER actually made their own appliances? From what I have seen, Sears has contracted production out to other appliance companies for several decades, if not since the beginning. My mini-fridge is indeed a Kenmore, but I knew when buying the thing that it was a rebranded something (can't find manufacturer code 255 anywhere, though).
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Brandon

^^ No.  Kenmore has typically been made by Whirlpool.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Pink Jazz

Quote from: Brandon on July 25, 2017, 06:16:33 PM
^^ No.  Kenmore has typically been made by Whirlpool.


I think in recent years a lot of new Kenmore appliances are now made by LG.

catch22

Quote from: Pink Jazz on July 25, 2017, 08:26:16 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 25, 2017, 06:16:33 PM
^^ No.  Kenmore has typically been made by Whirlpool.


I think in recent years a lot of new Kenmore appliances are now made by LG.

We have a 7 year old Kenmore refrigerator and a 3-year-old Kenmore washer/dryer pair, all made by Electrolux.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolux


cl94

Kenmore uses a couple dozen manufacturers for the various products. Only way to tell manufacturers apart is the model number.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Nanis

...Aand the Kmart here in Philly just closed.
Map of state roads I have taken pictures for the signs for can be seen here (although four routes ave not been added yet because of their lengths.):
https://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/us_route_map/s7vYO7rC80

LM117

Quote from: Brandon on July 25, 2017, 06:16:33 PM
^^ No.  Kenmore has typically been made by Whirlpool.

Yeah, the last Kenmore we had was made by Whirlpool. My grandmother had bought a brand new Kenmore dryer in either late 1995 or early 1996 (I don't remember which). We were in Lowe's one day and saw a Whirlpool dryer that was identical to our Kenmore.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

ixnay

Quote from: Nanis on July 29, 2017, 03:05:02 AM
...Aand the Kmart here in Philly just closed.

The one on Aramingo Ave. or the one on Roosevelt Blvd.?

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

Nanis

Quote from: ixnay on July 29, 2017, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: Nanis on July 29, 2017, 03:05:02 AM
...Aand the Kmart here in Philly just closed.

The one on Aramingo Ave. or the one on Roosevelt Blvd.?

ixnay
The Roosevelt one and the Aramingo one. Hell, even the one in Willow Grove closed!
Map of state roads I have taken pictures for the signs for can be seen here (although four routes ave not been added yet because of their lengths.):
https://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/us_route_map/s7vYO7rC80

JJBers

Here's a update photo of the K-Mart in Vernon (July 14)
*for Connecticut
Clinched Stats,
Flickr,
(2di:I-24, I-76, I-80, I-84, I-95 [ME-GA], I-91)

roadman65

Bye bye as they committed suicide themselves. I don't feel sorry for them at all even though they used to be good in their day, but they did nothing to reconcile their problem and did what Walmart did and got people to em.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

JKRhodes

I checked the store locator and found three stores I've frequented in the past to still be open:

Show Low, AZ: Deuce of Clubs Ave

Tucson, AZ: Broadway Road

Las Cruces, NM: Bataan Memorial Hwy

The ones in Show Low and Las Cruces are in good spots, where there isn't a walmart close by. The one in Tucson is located at a very busy intersection, although there's also a recently expanded Walmart Supercenter one mile down the street, along with several new walmarts on the eastern and southern outskirts that have been built in the last 3-5 years.... Then again, Tucson is very anti-walmart, so I think that particular K-Mart will be ok for a while.

jp the roadgeek

28 more Kmarts are going bye-bye.  CT now down to 3 with the Southbury closing.  Amazing, since it is a 2-story location, and the hole in the wall Watertown one 10 minutes away survived.  And looks like RI is Kmart-less

http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-is-closing-28-kmart-stores-list-2017-8
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

JJBers

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 24, 2017, 01:11:41 PM
28 more Kmarts are going bye-bye.  CT now down to 3 with the Southbury closing.  Amazing, since it is a 2-story location, and the hole in the wall Watertown one 10 minutes away survived.  And looks like RI is Kmart-less

http://www.businessinsider.com/sears-is-closing-28-kmart-stores-list-2017-8
Hopefully Vernon's location survives for me to go back with my camera.   
*for Connecticut
Clinched Stats,
Flickr,
(2di:I-24, I-76, I-80, I-84, I-95 [ME-GA], I-91)

tchafe1978

Why prolong the agony? Just close the whole chain now and be done with it. We all know it's inevitable anyways.



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