News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Welcome signs in New Jersey (and other states)

Started by bzakharin, December 27, 2016, 11:35:57 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

bzakharin

I am wondering if there is any consistent policy on how welcome signs are posted in New Jersey. At the state level it seems New Jersey welcomes state route, US route, and Interstate traffic over land borders with New York. The municipality also usually has a welcome sign at such a location. County routes that begin at the land border usually have county line signs with occasional municipality signs. Any smaller road usually has nothing, though random municipality signs exist at some entrances.

Bridges that carry freeways seem to not have welcome signs of any sort (except the NJ Turnpike which welcomes you to New Jersey at all termini). Smaller bridges usually have some sort of welcome sign, though whether it's the state, county, municipality, or some combination seems to be completely random.

Within the state, county lines are only posted on the Garden State Parkway and the Atlantic City Expressway, with occasional exceptions. One I can think of is US 130 SB where there is a fancy "Welcome to Gloucester County" sign.

Municipality lines are indicated on all Interstate, US, and state highways, with the exception of the toll roads. County routes have them too more often than not, while any lesser roads may or may not. The signs themselves usually come in two types. One is a white on green "Entering [municipality type] of [name]". These are the ones posted on Interstates. The other is a logo with some variation of "Welcome to [name]" with a slogan often thrown in. These appear on county and local roads, but also seem to compete with the green signs on state and US routes, sometimes both are posted, sometimes at different points. Some municipalities also install "leaving" (or "cone again" or "thank you for visiting") signs, usually opposite their welcome signs (but obviously facing the other direction). I've only seen this latter practice in central NJ (namely, Woodbridge, Edison, Metuchen, and Clark). The DRPA and the NJ Turnpike Authority also thank the driver for traveling on their bridge or roadway at the termini.

Does NJ has a formal policy for all of this, and do other states do this differently?


hotdogPi

Massachusetts has its own distinctive town line signs. At county lines, it occasionally (but very rarely) mentions the county name. These town line signs are on every state route and some other roads, except freeways have a simple green "Entering Lobcester*" sign instead of the distinctive white town line sign. Sometimes on a local road, there will be town line signs that look like street signs.

New Hampshire has poles that display the town name vertically. Unlike in Massachusetts, they're easy to miss.

*Lobcester does not actually exist. It would be pronounced "lobster", similarly to Worcester, Leicester, and Gloucester.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

vdeane

NYSDOT posts county/town line signs religiously.  NYSTA doesn't post them (although there are a couple exceptions downstate).

In Vermont, county/town line signs are posted parallel to the road such that they're useless for navigation. https://goo.gl/maps/imQPGFRgdat
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SidS1045

#3
Quote from: 1 on December 27, 2016, 12:16:56 PM
Massachusetts has its own distinctive town line signs. At county lines, it occasionally (but very rarely) mentions the county name. These town line signs are on every state route and some other roads, except freeways have a simple green "Entering Lobcester*" sign instead of the distinctive white town line sign. Sometimes on a local road, there will be town line signs that look like street signs.
*Lobcester does not actually exist. It would be pronounced "lobster", similarly to Worcester, Leicester, and Gloucester.

The "Entering..." signs are referred to as the bookleaf design, with a silhouette resembling an open book:

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

jeffandnicole

NJ - the State - is pretty good about signing most crossings into NJ.  Here's the Calhoun Street Bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/dcdVgP7FmH42 .  Yet, nearby after the Trenton Makes Bridge, I don't think one has ever been posted..   On US 1, a welcome sign was posted just after the DRJTBC jurisdiction.  Unfortunately this GSV is from 2013, you'll probably miss it if you weren't looking for it, you're not going to be able to read the whole thing anyway, and I really haven't been over the bridge much lately to see if the sign has been updated. 

At least in the southern part of the state, the Freeways/Highways do have Welcome signs, although they don't tend to be at the border probably due to jurisdictional issues with the bridge authorities.  In some instances, such as crossing the Walt Whitman Bridge, the Welcome sign isn't going to be seen until you're 2 miles into NJ: https://goo.gl/maps/nS6g5PXK8s62 .  Here's one after the Del. Mem. Bridge (sun glaring causing sight issues on the GSV): https://goo.gl/maps/1RCJCmmoXDq .

County welcome signs are more of a crapshoot.  You mentioned Gloucester County, which does tend to mark their borders.  Here's one of the Gloucester County signs on NJ 45 you can see in the distance https://goo.gl/maps/NoJxoHXDo8A2 .  Spin the GSV around, and you'll see Salem County's sign.  From Camden County, just south of the Brooklawn Circles the county is posted as well. NJ 47: https://goo.gl/maps/wwFEXVFm78m ; US 130: https://goo.gl/maps/td8xYxjyipx

To answer your actual question: It appears the only real policy is going to be NJDOT posting municipal lines on their roadways.  Everything else is random, and subject to agreements with the county & NJDOT, or county policy.


bzakharin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 27, 2016, 02:11:18 PM
At least in the southern part of the state, the Freeways/Highways do have Welcome signs, although they don't tend to be at the border probably due to jurisdictional issues with the bridge authorities.  In some instances, such as crossing the Walt Whitman Bridge, the Welcome sign isn't going to be seen until you're 2 miles into NJ: https://goo.gl/maps/nS6g5PXK8s62 .  Here's one after the Del. Mem. Bridge (sun glaring causing sight issues on the GSV): https://goo.gl/maps/1RCJCmmoXDq .
Wow, I've never noticed either of those. I do remember taking the Ben Franklin Bridge every weekday for school in the 90s, and if memory doesn't fail me there was a "Welcome to New Jersey" along with "What a difference a State Makes" lights/wipers on sign (back when it was a new law) right past. I think there were other "state Law" signs in quick succession. I can still find one: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9476226,-75.1177928,3a,75y,128.46h,83.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5XCLGUibxXrL-8zXo-vGog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1 but no "Welcome to New Jersey" in site. All I can find is two "Camden" signs: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9456562,-75.1126401,3a,75y,97.02h,63.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWgbCDMMO1m7e8UbWo-PSJQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

_Simon

I remember sometime between 1997 and 1999 NJ started putting the municipal crossing signs on all state maintained roads, before that they had only been adding them to newly designed roads.  Since at least 1994, US-22 had a button copy "entering lopatcong township" at roseberry street,  which was before they switched to "twp of" phrasing.   Nj should also sign counties but they don't because there isn't as big of a demand.  Most police and emergency agencies are either municipal or they have self maintained boundaries.  I personally wouldn't mind a "welcome to bergan county" VMS that changes to a "closed for worship" sign on Sundays.

SM-G930V


Ian

Quote from: 1 on December 27, 2016, 12:16:56 PM
New Hampshire has poles that display the town name vertically. Unlike in Massachusetts, they're easy to miss.

Does New Hampshire still install the vertical town/county line signs? Maine used to use vertical white town line signs with a tiny black box with white text reading "TOWN LINE" at the top, but now are in favor of the newer green horizontal signs. More modern versions have the city name in mixed cased B (yes, B), which looks horrendous.
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
Youtube l Flickr

jwolfer

#8
Quote from: _Simon on December 27, 2016, 06:34:11 PM
I remember sometime between 1997 and 1999 NJ started putting the municipal crossing signs on all state maintained roads, before that they had only been adding them to newly designed roads.  Since at least 1994, US-22 had a button copy "entering lopatcong township" at roseberry street,  which was before they switched to "twp of" phrasing.   Nj should also sign counties but they don't because there isn't as big of a demand.  Most police and emergency agencies are either municipal or they have self maintained boundaries.  I personally wouldn't mind a "welcome to bergan county" VMS that changes to a "closed for worship" sign on Sundays.

SM-G930V
It bothers me that they spell it Boro not Borough and Twp not Township.  I dont understand why the dont add county to munincipal signs where appropriate. NJ unlike New England still has county governments and people identify with counties

When i wad a kid I did not like the tags had N. J. Instead of New Jersey spelled out.. Of course my dad being cheap he woyld not spring for new tags...

From what i understand there is still some sncient tags that jave been tranfered since the 1970s with the N. J.

LGMS428

storm2k

Quote from: jwolfer on December 28, 2016, 12:49:39 AM
Quote from: _Simon on December 27, 2016, 06:34:11 PM
I remember sometime between 1997 and 1999 NJ started putting the municipal crossing signs on all state maintained roads, before that they had only been adding them to newly designed roads.  Since at least 1994, US-22 had a button copy "entering lopatcong township" at roseberry street,  which was before they switched to "twp of" phrasing.   Nj should also sign counties but they don't because there isn't as big of a demand.  Most police and emergency agencies are either municipal or they have self maintained boundaries.  I personally wouldn't mind a "welcome to bergan county" VMS that changes to a "closed for worship" sign on Sundays.

SM-G930V
It bothers me that they spell it Boro not Borough and Twp not Township.  I dont understand why the dont add county to munincipal signs where appropriate. NJ unlike New England still has county governments and people identify with counties

When i wad a kid I did not like the tags had N. J. Instead of New Jersey spelled out.. Of course my dad being cheap he woyld not spring for new tags...

From what i understand there is still some sncient tags that jave been tranfered since the 1970s with the N. J.

LGMS428


There are a few of the original cream plates still on the road, but they're rapidly dwindling. I think the state may be tightening the rules on transferring plates these days. It would not surprise me at some point if the state mandates that anyone with an embossed plate is forced to get the new screen printed ones.

storm2k

And to answer the original question, I have found for NJ that it depends vastly on the agency that's signing it. The Turnpike and Parkway both have their own takes on Welcome to NJ signs. NJDOT has the postcard-style signs on roads they maintain. Sometimes they're not close to their actual port of entry, since those roads are maintained by various bi-state authorities (DRJBTA doesn't like to post anything, for instance). Local roads are very hit or miss.

As for county markers in NJ, they're kind of pointless, really, since every square inch of land in this state belongs to one of our nearly 600 municipalities.

SidS1045

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

bzakharin

Quote from: vdeane on December 27, 2016, 01:25:55 PM
NYSDOT posts county/town line signs religiously.  NYSTA doesn't post them (although there are a couple exceptions downstate).

In Vermont, county/town line signs are posted parallel to the road such that they're useless for navigation. https://goo.gl/maps/imQPGFRgdat
Like this?
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.840609,-75.0837267,3a,37.5y,141.11h,90.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQWj5TfzEIN-Du5EBl_Cwsw!2e0!5s20160801T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

KEVIN_224

A different series, since it's coming into Brattleboro, VT from Chesterfield, NH...over the Connecticut River on VT/NH Route 9:


Ian

Quote from: SidS1045 on December 28, 2016, 02:35:47 PM
Quote from: Ian on December 27, 2016, 07:40:07 PMDoes New Hampshire still install the vertical town/county line signs?

They do indeed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/iccdude/6087165530

But that's not brand new (it's in my collection, in fact). I'm curious to see what the latest generation of these signs look like with FHWA's new mixed-case rule, or if NHDOT has started to use more standard signs.
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
Youtube l Flickr

SidS1045

Quote from: Ian on December 29, 2016, 12:47:24 PMI'm curious to see what the latest generation of these signs look like with FHWA's new mixed-case rule, or if NHDOT has started to use more standard signs.

I was in NH within the last few months and saw no evidence of any other type of signage at town lines on state roads (other than interstates).  On the interstates, they use a SGS which states:

TOWN LINE
=======
ENTERING
(name of town)
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

cpzilliacus

Virginia is very good at posting boundaries between counties, and between counties and [independent] cities, at least on state-maintained primary system highways (even if the state maintenance ends at a city line, as it usually does, except on freeway-class roads). 

The Commonwealth is also good at posting corporate limits of towns, at least where a road enters a town (towns in Virginia being municipalities that are part of a county, unlike cities, which are not).

Maryland posts county names pretty well on state-maintained roads as well, but municipalities (where we have them, most of the state is not in a municipality, and there are absolutely no townships and no boroughs).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

ixnay

#17
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 29, 2016, 06:13:53 PM
Virginia is very good at posting boundaries between counties, and between counties and [independent] cities, at least on state-maintained primary system highways (even if the state maintenance ends at a city line, as it usually does, except on freeway-class roads). 

*Very* good, in that the signs say "Entering [County or City Name]/Leaving [County or City Name]" (unless you are entering the state from outside the Old Dominion, in which the sign just gives the name of the county/city being entered [plus a "Welcome to Virginia" sign).

QuoteMaryland posts county names pretty well on state-maintained roads as well, but municipalities (where we have them, most of the state is not in a municipality, and there are absolutely no townships and no boroughs).

The Seventh State's SHA usually augments its "Welcome to [County Name]" signs with the county seal.  Some town/city limits are marked with similar signs bearing the greeting and the town/city seal.

One glaring exception to MD's county line signing policy is Kent County, from whose highway entrances there are absolutely no SHA-style county greeting signs.  Kent County itself compensated for this by erecting handsome (IMO) wooden signs where MD 213 enters the county on the north and south sides that say

WELCOME TO
KENT COUNTY
MARYLAND
A Place to Grow

Years ago when my mother and I would make annual visits to relatives on the Eastern Shore, MD used small white rectangular signs on county lines that read just like Virginia's (showing the counties being entered and exited).  I also remember seeing an "Entering Montgomery Co/Leaving Prince George's Co" sign (NOT of freeway size, and maybe dating from 1964?) on I-495's outer loop around 1980 when my stepdad and I were on our way to visit his brother (RIP to both) in NoVa.

As for New Jersey, I always liked that state's "Entering [Municipality Name]" signs, which are also used to sign entrances to unincorporated places like Mays Landing.

ixnay

The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

bzakharin

Quote from: ixnay on December 29, 2016, 07:11:21 PM
As for New Jersey, I always liked that state's "Entering [Municipality Name]" signs, which are also used to sign entrances to unincorporated places like Mays Landing.

ixnay


That's another thing. Most unincorporated communities are not posted. Aside from Mays Landing, I only know of West Atlantic City in Egg Harbor Township being posted and that is discontinuous from the rest of the township, but the rest of them, Marlton, Colonia, Princeton Junction, West Berlin, Cedar Knolls, etc., are not. Whippany gets this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8206491,-74.4070805,3a,37.5y,152.36h,79.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sksQOemYGJVSm_DXM_-cquQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But I hardly think that counts. So why is Mays Landing special?

Alps

Quote from: bzakharin on December 29, 2016, 11:00:59 PM
Quote from: ixnay on December 29, 2016, 07:11:21 PM
As for New Jersey, I always liked that state's "Entering [Municipality Name]" signs, which are also used to sign entrances to unincorporated places like Mays Landing.

ixnay


That's another thing. Most unincorporated communities are not posted. Aside from Mays Landing, I only know of West Atlantic City in Egg Harbor Township being posted and that is discontinuous from the rest of the township, but the rest of them, Marlton, Colonia, Princeton Junction, West Berlin, Cedar Knolls, etc., are not. Whippany gets this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8206491,-74.4070805,3a,37.5y,152.36h,79.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sksQOemYGJVSm_DXM_-cquQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But I hardly think that counts. So why is Mays Landing special?
It's definitely not only Mays Landing, but I couldn't specify offhand which other places get them.

NJRoadfan

Signing place names seem common in Cape May and Atlantic counties particularly on US-9. You'll get a sign like "Entering Whitesboro section of Middle Twp"

ixnay

Quote from: NJRoadfan on December 30, 2016, 02:53:17 PM
Signing place names seem common in Cape May and Atlantic counties particularly on US-9. You'll get a sign like "Entering Whitesboro section of Middle Twp"

Boroughs aren't exempt.  EB on U.S. 40 you'll see "Entering Landisville in Buena Boro" (right after entering Atlantic County from Gloucester County).

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: ixnay on December 30, 2016, 08:30:51 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on December 30, 2016, 02:53:17 PM
Signing place names seem common in Cape May and Atlantic counties particularly on US-9. You'll get a sign like "Entering Whitesboro section of Middle Twp"

Boroughs aren't exempt.  EB on U.S. 40 you'll see "Entering Landisville in Buena Boro" (right after entering Atlantic County from Gloucester County).

ixnay

Usually the boros signed are actual municipalities, not sections of towns.

roadman65

Quote from: jwolfer on December 28, 2016, 12:49:39 AM
Quote from: _Simon on December 27, 2016, 06:34:11 PM
I remember sometime between 1997 and 1999 NJ started putting the municipal crossing signs on all state maintained roads, before that they had only been adding them to newly designed roads.  Since at least 1994, US-22 had a button copy "entering lopatcong township" at roseberry street,  which was before they switched to "twp of" phrasing.   Nj should also sign counties but they don't because there isn't as big of a demand.  Most police and emergency agencies are either municipal or they have self maintained boundaries.  I personally wouldn't mind a "welcome to bergan county" VMS that changes to a "closed for worship" sign on Sundays.

SM-G930V
It bothers me that they spell it Boro not Borough and Twp not Township.  I dont understand why the dont add county to munincipal signs where appropriate. NJ unlike New England still has county governments and people identify with counties

When i wad a kid I did not like the tags had N. J. Instead of New Jersey spelled out.. Of course my dad being cheap he woyld not spring for new tags...

From what i understand there is still some sncient tags that jave been tranfered since the 1970s with the N. J.

LGMS428

US 9 used to have a sign going SB entering Lakewood from Howell that did also say that you were entering Ocean County as well as Lakewood.  However, since NJDOT four laned all of US 9 in Howell back in the mid 1980's, I think the sign was removed.  In fact with the 1998 redo of all municipal borders on State Highway I am almost sure its gone now.

I did once see on GSV that on Route 35 at the Manasquan River a sign facing sideways did mention the Monmouth- Ocean line just south of the bridge proper with arrows pointing to each county. 
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jwolfer

Quote from: roadman65 on December 31, 2016, 07:52:31 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 28, 2016, 12:49:39 AM
Quote from: _Simon on December 27, 2016, 06:34:11 PM
I remember sometime between 1997 and 1999 NJ started putting the municipal crossing signs on all state maintained roads, before that they had only been adding them to newly designed roads.  Since at least 1994, US-22 had a button copy "entering lopatcong township" at roseberry street,  which was before they switched to "twp of" phrasing.   Nj should also sign counties but they don't because there isn't as big of a demand.  Most police and emergency agencies are either municipal or they have self maintained boundaries.  I personally wouldn't mind a "welcome to bergan county" VMS that changes to a "closed for worship" sign on Sundays.

SM-G930V
It bothers me that they spell it Boro not Borough and Twp not Township.  I dont understand why the dont add county to munincipal signs where appropriate. NJ unlike New England still has county governments and people identify with counties

When i wad a kid I did not like the tags had N. J. Instead of New Jersey spelled out.. Of course my dad being cheap he woyld not spring for new tags...

From what i understand there is still some sncient tags that jave been tranfered since the 1970s with the N. J.

LGMS428

US 9 used to have a sign going SB entering Lakewood from Howell that did also say that you were entering Ocean County as well as Lakewood.  However, since NJDOT four laned all of US 9 in Howell back in the mid 1980's, I think the sign was removed.  In fact with the 1998 redo of all municipal borders on State Highway I am almost sure its gone now.

I did once see on GSV that on Route 35 at the Manasquan River a sign facing sideways did mention the Monmouth- Ocean line just south of the bridge proper with arrows pointing to each county.
I remember the siseways facing sign on route 35. For a long time there was a black and white porcelain one there

LGMS428




Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.