Florida SunPass toll signage not purple?

Started by Dustin DeWinn, January 08, 2017, 05:58:15 PM

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Dustin DeWinn

Hi all,

I'm not from Florida, but from what I can tell, their SunPass toll signage isn't purple, nor does it have a purple background. This isn't compliant with MUTCD.

Does anyone know why, or am I just wrong?

Thanks


1995hoo

That MUTCD standard is pretty new and most of the SunPass signage likely predates it.

Regardless of color, I think Florida does a pretty good job of signing the SunPass lanes.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

FLRoads

Quote from: Dustin DeWinn on January 08, 2017, 05:58:15 PM
Hi all,

I'm not from Florida, but from what I can tell, their SunPass toll signage isn't purple, nor does it have a purple background. This isn't compliant with MUTCD.

Does anyone know why, or am I just wrong?

Thanks

As 1995hoo mentioned, a lot of the existing SunPass signage does predate the MUTCD mandate, but there are some instances where signage includes the purple background:


Lee County 884 west on the approach to its toll plaza in Cape Coral. Photo taken 11/22/12.


Traveling eastbound along Florida 112 (Airport Expressway) this overhead shows the toll schedule for the upcoming I-95 Express lanes. Photo taken 01/23/16.

Dustin DeWinn

Awesome, thank you.

Part of this question is an OCD/Aspergers need for consistency. So, this does ameliorate some of that dissonance I was experiencing.

1995hoo

It's not unique to Florida, BTW. If you were to visit Northern Virginia, you'd find some HO/T lane exit signs with white "E-ZPass Express Exit" banners (with that "E-ZPass" being the purple logo) and others with green "Express Exit" instead; similarly, guide signs to the lanes originally had white banners but new ones have purple (less dark a shade of purple than seen in the photos above, however), and most or all of the guide signs with the white banners have been retrofitted with purple. It's the same sort of thing–signage standards for ETC and priced managed lanes are fairly new.

I've always found Florida's frequent inclusion of "Prepaid Tolls Only" on many SunPass signs to be unique, as I don't recall seeing that sort of thing elsewhere.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

EZ Pass's original logo was purple.  Most likely due to the large inclusion of EZ Pass on many roads already, the Feds simply decided to make purple the primary color.  Thus, the EZ Pass logo defaulted into the proper signage color.  Any new toll roads will use purple as well.  The older, non-EZ Pass toll signs will eventually comply, but there's no rush to do so.

mrsman

It also is convenient.  Purple hasn't been assigned to mean anything else with regards to highways.  So it might as well be used to designate toll facilities.

realjd

Like others said, they're working on it. All of the new express lanes they're building use purple, and any other new construction. Yellow "TOLL" tabs aren't particularly common yet either but are starting to pop up. Other than the Turnpike, they're handling that by just changing the colors of the top of our toll road shield from green to yellow:



I'm just glad we're not going for full on purple signage like they did on Loop 8 in Houston:


1995hoo

I kind of like the idea of the full purple signage if the toll lanes are adjacent to free lanes, as is the case on the HO/T lanes here (similar in concept, I guess, to how Route 401 in Toronto has different-colored signs over the express and collector lanes). I-395 had that many years ago over the reversible HOV roadway, but the dark-background signs disappeared due to FHWA insistence on green. Interesting to see the concept posssibly making a comeback.

Obviously, of course, what's shown in your photo is a different scenario.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: realjd on February 25, 2017, 07:54:07 AMI'm just glad we're not going for full on purple signage like they did on Loop 8 in Houston:



Westpark Tollway, and the purple signage was done to show that the highway was ETC only. Now that toll booths are largely phased out in the Houston area, they've defaulted back to green on new ETC-only construction.

MASTERNC

New signage for an E-ZPass slip ramp on the PA Turnpike NE Extension isn't purple either (they use green and yellow backgrounds).

billpa

Quote from: MASTERNC on March 04, 2017, 09:22:24 PM
New signage for an E-ZPass slip ramp on the PA Turnpike NE Extension isn't purple either (they use green and yellow backgrounds).


HTC6525LVW


billpa

Quote from: billpa on March 05, 2017, 06:52:42 AM
Quote from: MASTERNC on March 04, 2017, 09:22:24 PM
New signage for an E-ZPass slip ramp on the PA Turnpike NE Extension isn't purple either (they use green and yellow backgrounds).


HTC6525LVW


HTC6525LVW


J N Winkler

Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 27, 2017, 11:14:42 AMWestpark Tollway, and the purple signage was done to show that the highway was ETC only. Now that toll booths are largely phased out in the Houston area, they've defaulted back to green on new ETC-only construction.

HCTRA built the Westpark Tollway around 2003 and asked FHWA for permission to use purple-background signs.  (I have the letter somewhere in my files; ATSSA used to host, and may still host, MUTCD authority-to-experiment correspondence on its website.)  FHWA denied HCTRA's request, and suggested purple panels for ETC-related messages (similar to current MUTCD provisions), but HCTRA went ahead and erected the unapproved signs anyway.

HCTRA tends to replace signs in large, corridor-wide pure signing contracts, and I think one may have been let very recently for the Westpark Tollway.  The most recent StreetView imagery currently available dates from October 2015 and still shows the purple signs.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

MASTERNC

#14
Quote from: billpa on March 05, 2017, 06:52:42 AM
Quote from: MASTERNC on March 04, 2017, 09:22:24 PM
New signage for an E-ZPass slip ramp on the PA Turnpike NE Extension isn't purple either (they use green and yellow backgrounds).



HTC6525LVW



Actually meant the new slip ramp at the Lansdale interchange.


jrouse

Another reason why purple may not be used in Florida is because they also have the photo tolling, pay-by-plate on their toll roads.  Purple is associated with registered ETC accounts.  Since you do not have to have an ETC account to use the toll roads, they wouldn't need to use purple.


iPhone

TXtoNJ

What's more - purple signs are associated with a very famous tourist location in Central Florida.

vdeane

Quote from: jrouse on March 09, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
Another reason why purple may not be used in Florida is because they also have the photo tolling, pay-by-plate on their toll roads.  Purple is associated with registered ETC accounts.  Since you do not have to have an ETC account to use the toll roads, they wouldn't need to use purple.
My understanding is that purple is for any all-electronic tolling situation, regardless of whether bill by mail is an option or not (IMO it should be; I don't like the idea of outright banning people without a transponder); basically, anywhere that doesn't have cash booths.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

realjd

Quote from: jrouse on March 09, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
Another reason why purple may not be used in Florida is because they also have the photo tolling, pay-by-plate on their toll roads.  Purple is associated with registered ETC accounts.  Since you do not have to have an ETC account to use the toll roads, they wouldn't need to use purple.


iPhone

Like I said earlier, Florida is using purple for electronic rolling of al types. They're just not retrofitting existing signs. All new ones use purple.

AsphaltPlanet

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 25, 2017, 09:39:59 AM
I kind of like the idea of the full purple signage if the toll lanes are adjacent to free lanes, as is the case on the HO/T lanes here (similar in concept, I guess, to how Route 401 in Toronto has different-colored signs over the express and collector lanes). I-395 had that many years ago over the reversible HOV roadway, but the dark-background signs disappeared due to FHWA insistence on green. Interesting to see the concept posssibly making a comeback.

Obviously, of course, what's shown in your photo is a different scenario.

I agree.  I'd like to see purple signage for toll roads.  In DC specifically, I think purple signage for the Express Toll Lanes on the 495 Beltway would be far easier to distinguish from signage over the general purpose lanes than the current signage is.
AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

roadfro

Quote from: vdeane on March 09, 2017, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: jrouse on March 09, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
Another reason why purple may not be used in Florida is because they also have the photo tolling, pay-by-plate on their toll roads.  Purple is associated with registered ETC accounts.  Since you do not have to have an ETC account to use the toll roads, they wouldn't need to use purple.
My understanding is that purple is for any all-electronic tolling situation, regardless of whether bill by mail is an option or not (IMO it should be; I don't like the idea of outright banning people without a transponder); basically, anywhere that doesn't have cash booths.

Nope. Purple is indeed designated only on signage for lanes restricted to use only by registered electronic toll collection (ETC) accounts. [See MUTCD 2009 color code at Section 1A.12]
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

lordsutch

After the I-75/Northside Drive bus crash in 2007, which was blamed in part on the use of black-on-white signs for exits from the southbound HOV lane, FHWA banned the use of colors other than white-on-green (and white-on-blue for rest areas and white-on-brown for recreational facilities) for exit signage on freeways, including managed lanes (HOV/HOT/express).

I could see an argument for using a distinct color for managed lanes, much like Ontario uses white-on-blue to distinguish collector/distributor signage from mainline signage, but I doubt FHWA would go for it without extensive usability testing in light of what happened in 2007.

vdeane

Quote from: roadfro on March 15, 2017, 02:55:20 AM
Quote from: vdeane on March 09, 2017, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: jrouse on March 09, 2017, 12:20:39 AM
Another reason why purple may not be used in Florida is because they also have the photo tolling, pay-by-plate on their toll roads.  Purple is associated with registered ETC accounts.  Since you do not have to have an ETC account to use the toll roads, they wouldn't need to use purple.
My understanding is that purple is for any all-electronic tolling situation, regardless of whether bill by mail is an option or not (IMO it should be; I don't like the idea of outright banning people without a transponder); basically, anywhere that doesn't have cash booths.

Nope. Purple is indeed designated only on signage for lanes restricted to use only by registered electronic toll collection (ETC) accounts. [See MUTCD 2009 color code at Section 1A.12]
Well, that's stupid.  What's the point in having a separate color for a situation that IMO should be strictly illegal?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

Heh. Methinks the key letters in your post are "IMO"!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Joe The Dragon

Quote from: lordsutch on March 15, 2017, 12:32:07 PM
After the I-75/Northside Drive bus crash in 2007, which was blamed in part on the use of black-on-white signs for exits from the southbound HOV lane, FHWA banned the use of colors other than white-on-green (and white-on-blue for rest areas and white-on-brown for recreational facilities) for exit signage on freeways, including managed lanes (HOV/HOT/express).

I could see an argument for using a distinct color for managed lanes, much like Ontario uses white-on-blue to distinguish collector/distributor signage from mainline signage, but I doubt FHWA would go for it without extensive usability testing in light of what happened in 2007.
There was also an sign before that saying left exit / keep left HOV to stay on I-75 in HOV



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