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Nevada Handles Left Lane Slowpokes

Started by roadman65, August 08, 2017, 12:32:15 PM

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roadman65

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/nevada-cracks-driving-speed-limit-left-lane/
I wish every state can be this way. No problem like a slow poke blocking the left lane for passing others.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


briantroutman

QuoteNevada Cracks Down on Driving Below the Speed Limit in Left Lane
(Emphasis added.)

In the vast majority of the cases I encounter, the "left lane slowpoke"  isn't driving below the speed limit. He or she is driving the speed limit–or even 5 above. The issue is that other vehicles want to go 15, 20, or more over the speed limit, and the driver going 60 in a 55 (even if that motorist is passing a truck going 58) becomes an obstacle to drivers trying to go 80.

kalvado

And I wonder what are the expectations in case of traffic backup. I've seen people demanding that left lane is clear for them to coast at 80, when other lanes crawl start-and-stop...

empirestate

So, wait...the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?

jakeroot

Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
So, wait...the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?

Not legally. But in practice, yes.

It's not the job of the people to enforce the speed limit. If a driver wants to exceed the limit by however much he or she wants, they should be allowed to do so. It's the police's job to hassle them.

You can get in their way, but as the numerous videos on Youtube demonstrate, this quickly creates road rage and can lead to far more dangerous situations than if you had just let them pass.

sparker

Back in the 60's, CA tried an experiment with that on I-80 northeast of Sacramento (when it was still 2 lanes per direction).  The left lane was posted, IIRC, at 55 minimum (the posted speed limit then was 65 on this section), and the right lane posted at 45.  (There was a picture in CH&PW illustrating this circa '63).  For better or worse, the concept failed; enforcement was deemed next to impossible without saturation-level coverage, which the CHP declined to provide. 

If NV wants this version of that concept to be effective, they need to (a) engage in an extensive public-information campaign regarding this rule and how it'll be applied, and (b) post equally extensive signage serving as notices/reminders about the new law.       

MikeTheActuary

Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
So, wait...the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?

Way back, once upon a time, in drivers ed, I was taught that the only acceptable speed in the left lane is the posted speed limit....because the teacher wasn't allowed to teach that exceeding the speed limit was acceptable.

I'd still prefer a different rule: except when safety requires otherwise, it ought to be illegal to be passed on the right.

Truvelo

I agree with the original post. The main problem is those in the left lane when there are no vehicles to their right. On too many occasions I see vehicles with no traffic in front of them on two lane roads enter the left lane when a passing lane starts. Why? This is what should be dealt with as much as those crawling along freeways in the left lane.

It's a different story if there's traffic on the right and someone is passing them traveling below the speed limit. As frustrating as it may be this shouldn't be penalised as they have a legitimate reason to be there so long as they move over once a suitable gap appears.
Speed limits limit life

empirestate

Quote from: jakeroot on August 08, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
So, wait...the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?

Not legally. But in practice, yes.

No–legally, according to the article.

jakeroot

Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 10:37:43 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 08, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
So, wait...the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?

Not legally. But in practice, yes.

No–legally, according to the article.

I think it depends on the lane. The law that I'm used to (which I'll admit to having forgot about when I wrote the above comment) states that it's illegal to impede the flow of traffic. Given that you are entitled to travel up to and including the maximum limit, drivers going less than the speed limit, holding up somebody who wishes to go the limit, would be breaking the law. Some states go a step further (such as here in WA), requiring drivers to stay out of the left lane entirely unless you are passing. But nowhere that I know of, is it legal to travel below the limit, at least in the passing lane.

Quillz

Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
So, wait...the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?
Another post explained it in better detail, but a speed limit is basically the speed that cannot be exceeded under normal circumstances. It's basically the reasonable speed law, and you could (most likely unsuccessfully) attempt to argue in traffic court why exceeding it wasn't dangerous. Compare this to the maximum speed law, which is similar, except you can never go above the posted limit, ever, no matter how safe you can prove your higher speed was.

US 89

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on August 08, 2017, 05:26:57 PM
Way back, once upon a time, in drivers ed, I was taught that the only acceptable speed in the left lane is the posted speed limit....because the teacher wasn't allowed to teach that exceeding the speed limit was acceptable.

For the same reason, they also teach that when passing someone on a 2-lane road, you shouldn't go above the speed limit. But speeding in this position is probably safer, since it means that you spend less time in the oncoming traffic lane.

Quote from: Quillz on August 08, 2017, 11:51:40 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 08, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
So, wait…the speed limit is now a minimum limit, rather than a maximum?
Another post explained it in better detail, but a speed limit is basically the speed that cannot be exceeded under normal circumstances. It's basically the reasonable speed law, and you could (most likely unsuccessfully) attempt to argue in traffic court why exceeding it wasn't dangerous. Compare this to the maximum speed law, which is similar, except you can never go above the posted limit, ever, no matter how safe you can prove your higher speed was.

That sounds like a prima facie speed limit, which is what all of Utah's limits are. You can go to court, where you have to prove to the judge that you were actually going at a reasonable and prudent speed considering the conditions. Situations where this defense might work include the example above.

ilpt4u

Did NV really need a new law to enforce this?

Pretty sure "Slower Traffic Keep Right" is signed and enforceable in IL

Not to mention, one can always get a ticket for Obstructing/Impeding Traffic, for slowing up the Express Lane(s)

Heck, doing 55 MPH in the Left/Express Lane on Chicago Area Expressways and Tollways should get you a Reckless Driving ticket, because you are about to get run over and/or wrecked

roadfro

For those wondering, here is the text of the new law. The NRS website is not yet updated, so this is copied from the enrolled version of AB 334 from the Nevada Legislature's 2017 session website.
Quote
1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2, on a controlled-access highway which has two or more clearly marked lanes for traveling in the same direction, a driver may not continue to operate a motor vehicle in the extreme left lane if the driver knows, or reasonably should know, that he or she is traveling at a rate of speed which is less than the posted speed limit for that portion of the controlled-access highway and is being overtaken in that lane from the rear by a motor vehicle traveling at a higher rate of speed.
2. The requirements of subsection 1 do not apply:
(a) To a driver operating a motor vehicle that is:
  (1) Overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;
  (2) Preparing for a left turn at an intersection;
  (3) Traveling in a lane designated for the use of high occupancy vehicles pursuant to NRS 484A.460, if the driver complies with the requirements to travel in such a lane; or
  (4) Engaged in the construction, maintenance or repair of the highway, including, without limitation, the removal of snow.
(b) When traffic conditions, inclement weather, obstructions or hazards make it necessary to drive in the extreme left lane.
(c) When compliance with an official traffic control device or the directions given by a peace officer makes it necessary to drive in the extreme left lane.
(d) To the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle in the course of his or her official duties.
(e) To a driver operating a motor vehicle within the geographical limits of a city or town.

Subsection 2(e) is interesting because it carves out an exception when driving within a city or town limits. That was an amendment to the original bill, from what I could tell–the amendment also added the "controlled-access" stipulation to subsection 1.

By my interpretation, 2(e) makes this law unenforceable on most freeways in Nevada... Given that this problem is likely most prevalent on urban freeways, I don't understand the logic of this exception.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

kalvado

And talking about speed limit being lower limit... Does NV allow speed limit+5 while passing? That would resolve at least some issues

kalvado

Quote from: roadfro on August 09, 2017, 10:22:14 AM

By my interpretation, 2(e) makes this law unenforceable on most freeways in Nevada... Given that this problem is likely most prevalent on urban freeways, I don't understand the logic of this exception.
Maybe that is added to address high traffic situations, when all lanes become travel lanes and traffic begins to slow down due to congestion? That is not unusual for commute.. 

jeffandnicole

I also don't like: (d) To the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle in the course of his or her official duties, as I'll see many ambulance drivers having the LLR issue.  While driving the emergency vehicle may be in the course of their normal duties even if they aren't transporting someone or responding to an incident, they shouldn't just ride the left lane at or below the speed limit for no reason.

kalvado

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 09, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
I also don't like: (d) To the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle in the course of his or her official duties, as I'll see many ambulance drivers having the LLR issue.  While driving the emergency vehicle may be in the course of their normal duties even if they aren't transporting someone or responding to an incident, they shouldn't just ride the left lane at or below the speed limit for no reason.
Emergency vehicles can be a pain.. But they are not that numerous to be a real problem, and they may have their good reasons for behaving weird way...

empirestate

Quote
1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2, on a controlled-access highway which has two or more clearly marked lanes for traveling in the same direction, a driver may not continue to operate a motor vehicle in the extreme left lane if the driver knows, or reasonably should know, that he or she is traveling at a rate of speed which is less than the posted speed limit for that portion of the controlled-access highway and is being overtaken in that lane from the rear by a motor vehicle traveling at a higher rate of speed.

(Emphasis added.) So, that's interesting–it appears Mike the Actuary in some way got his wish here!

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on August 08, 2017, 05:26:57 PM
I'd still prefer a different rule: except when safety requires otherwise, it ought to be illegal to be passed on the right.

Flint1979

I wish Michigan did more to address this problem. It seems like every time I drive on an Interstate highway I come up to a car in the left lane going slower than ever and I have to use the right lane (illegally) to pass and then the car stays in the left lane like it's a cruising lane. It's ridiculous and screws up the traffic flow, you can have no traffic ahead but a bunch of cars behind this slow poke that isn't smart enough to get out of the way. I can't stand people that drive like that and there are way too many of them.

kalvado

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
I wish Michigan did more to address this problem. It seems like every time I drive on an Interstate highway I come up to a car in the left lane going slower than ever and I have to use the right lane (illegally) to pass and then the car stays in the left lane like it's a cruising lane. It's ridiculous and screws up the traffic flow, you can have no traffic ahead but a bunch of cars behind this slow poke that isn't smart enough to get out of the way. I can't stand people that drive like that and there are way too many of them.
Indeed, looks like Michigan could do a bit better educating drivers. Reading MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE, Section 257.637 (1) (b) could benefit you in terms of you understanding of proper use of road...

empirestate

Also interesting that this rule is restricted to the far left lane. In my observation, it's a much bigger problem with the middle lane (of 3), because if someone's blocking the middle lane, then you have to go two lanes over to pass someone ahead of you in the right lane.

jakeroot

Quote from: empirestate on August 10, 2017, 01:23:50 AM
Also interesting that this rule is restricted to the far left lane. In my observation, it's a much bigger problem with the middle lane (of 3), because if someone's blocking the middle lane, then you have to go two lanes over to pass someone ahead of you in the right lane.

If you watch some of the "bad driver" videos from Europe, it's a common complaint there (along with fog lights, which also bug me, being in a small hatchback). Middle-lane hogs make it harder to stay right, because inevitably, you have to (as you indicate) move over at least two lanes to pass, and then you have to get all the way back to the right. It's the definition of slalom driving. It wouldn't be that way if that middle-lane hog just kept right all the time.

roadfro

Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: roadfro on August 09, 2017, 10:22:14 AM

By my interpretation, 2(e) makes this law unenforceable on most freeways in Nevada... Given that this problem is likely most prevalent on urban freeways, I don't understand the logic of this exception.
Maybe that is added to address high traffic situations, when all lanes become travel lanes and traffic begins to slow down due to congestion? That is not unusual for commute..

But there is no qualifier for time of day, congested traffic, or anything else with that exception. It's a blanket "this does not apply in a city/town" statement. With that, I interpret that this law is only enforceable between towns on I-80 and I-15, and not within the Las Vegas Valley, Reno-Sparks, Carson City areas.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

US 89

Quote from: jakeroot on August 10, 2017, 02:54:09 AM
Quote from: empirestate on August 10, 2017, 01:23:50 AM
Also interesting that this rule is restricted to the far left lane. In my observation, it's a much bigger problem with the middle lane (of 3), because if someone's blocking the middle lane, then you have to go two lanes over to pass someone ahead of you in the right lane.

If you watch some of the "bad driver" videos from Europe, it's a common complaint there (along with fog lights, which also bug me, being in a small hatchback). Middle-lane hogs make it harder to stay right, because inevitably, you have to (as you indicate) move over at least two lanes to pass, and then you have to get all the way back to the right. It's the definition of slalom driving. It wouldn't be that way if that middle-lane hog just kept right all the time.

Why don't you just pass the middle lane hog on the right, since you're already in that lane?



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