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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: ixnay on September 18, 2018, 05:20:00 PM

OK, back to PA road projects other than the I-95-ization of the Turnpike.  How's the dualization of U.S. 322 (the Conchester) in Delco coming along?  When will the first segment be completed?
ixnay

Since you asked, I happened to drive down US 322, between US 1 and Chester, and work on the dualization is going on from US 1 to Clayton Park Golf Course and the approach to PA 261.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above


ixnay

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 18, 2018, 11:48:44 PMSince you asked, I happened to drive down US 322, between US 1 and Chester, and work on the dualization is going on from US 1 to Clayton Park Golf Course and the approach to PA 261.

How far along does the construction look?  Did you notice?

Yes, I do remember reading that stretch was going to get dualized first, then they'll extend it down to the point between Cherry Tree Rd. and PA 452 where it's already dualized.

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: ixnay on September 19, 2018, 06:08:44 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 18, 2018, 11:48:44 PMSince you asked, I happened to drive down US 322, between US 1 and Chester, and work on the dualization is going on from US 1 to Clayton Park Golf Course and the approach to PA 261.

How far along does the construction look?  Did you notice?

Yes, I do remember reading that stretch was going to get dualized first, then they'll extend it down to the point between Cherry Tree Rd. and PA 452 where it's already dualized.

ixnay

The closer to US 1 you are, the further ahead they are. They have blacktop down past Station Rd, and some bridge work (more like culverts) been completed. Get south of Smithbridge Rd, and it's just cleared and graded dirt.
Figure its another year or two (2020?) till its completed.
Noticed that the new road is 5-10 ft higher than current US 322 in a handful of locations. Don't know if PennDot will go back and tear up the "old road" to level the two out.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

qguy

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 19, 2018, 09:28:10 PM
Quote from: ixnay on September 19, 2018, 06:08:44 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 18, 2018, 11:48:44 PMSince you asked, I happened to drive down US 322, between US 1 and Chester, and work on the dualization is going on from US 1 to Clayton Park Golf Course and the approach to PA 261.

How far along does the construction look?  Did you notice?

Yes, I do remember reading that stretch was going to get dualized first, then they'll extend it down to the point between Cherry Tree Rd. and PA 452 where it's already dualized.

ixnay
The closer to US 1 you are, the further ahead they are. They have blacktop down past Station Rd, and some bridge work (more like culverts) been completed. Get south of Smithbridge Rd, and it's just cleared and graded dirt.
Figure its another year or two (2020?) till its completed.
Noticed that the new road is 5-10 ft higher than current US 322 in a handful of locations. Don't know if PennDot will go back and tear up the "old road" to level the two out.

It will.

LeftyJR

Quote from: tckma on September 18, 2018, 04:13:09 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 18, 2018, 11:14:58 AM
Quote from: Gnutella on September 18, 2018, 10:41:30 AM
I think PennDOT and the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission should start using purple more often. On the two brand-new signs above, I'd like to see a purple field across the top of the entire left sign with the word 'TOLL' in it, and the 'LAST EXIT BEFORE TOLL' field across the top of the right sign changed from yellow to purple.
IIRC, purple signs (or portions thereof) are only used for either E-ZPass (or equivalent) lanes and/or an E-ZPass Only/AET scenario/set-up.  Most of the PA Turnpike still has cash lanes & booths.

That said, the above-BGS with just the yellow TOLL banner is 100% appropriate for that location & application.

But is "A TOLL ROAD" MUTCD-compliant phraseology?  (I love love LOVE New Hampshire; their DOT's usage of "A TOLL ROAD" instead of just "TOLL ROAD" is a personal pet peeve.)
Or the infamous "All Maine Points"  sign on 95.

CentralPAGal

According to the I-83 beltway website, PennDOT will be revealing the preliminary designs for east shore sections 2 and 3 during a public meeting at the Harrisburg East Mall on October 18.
Clinched:
I: 83, 97, 176, 180 (PA), 270 (MD), 283, 395 (MD), 470 (OH-WV), 471, 795 (MD)
Traveled:
I: 70, 71, 75, 76 (E), 78, 79, 80, 81, 86 (E), 95, 99, 270 (OH), 275 (KY-IN-OH), 376, 495 (MD-VA), 579, 595 (MD), 695 (MD)
US: 1, 9, 11, 13, 15, 22, 25, 30, 40, 42, 50, 113, 119, 127, 209, 220, 222, 301

TheOneKEA

Does anyone know how the US 11/15 CSVT project near Shamokin Dam is progressing? The website is rarely updated and I haven't been to that part of PA in a while.

Beltway

Quote from: TheOneKEA on September 29, 2018, 10:20:08 PM
Does anyone know how the US 11/15 CSVT project near Shamokin Dam is progressing? The website is rarely updated and I haven't been to that part of PA in a while.

I drove thru there a week ago.  The river bridge has 14 piers and two abutments per the project site plan sheet, and 8 piers and both abutments have been built.  The steel girders have been placed across those spans where piers have been built.

Looks like most of the heavy excavation has been completed on the land portions of Section I.  Section II is not under construction.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cpzilliacus

#883
After the meet in Mentor, Ohio, over the weekend, we were on the (short) section of I-90 across Erie County, Pennsylvania (between Ashtabula County, Ohio and Chautauqua County, New York), and there were several bridges crossing the freeway that were missing (the bridge abutments remain, blocked-off).

I obviously did not witness the demise of these bridges, but it is my strong suspicion is that the missing bridges were probably lower than current Interstate standard height (rather common on Interstates in Pennsylvania (I have seen as low as 13'6", there were once several low bridges on I-83 between the Maryland border and Harrisburg that have been replaced), but unfortunately low bridges are not so common (on signed Interstates) in neighboring Ohio and New York State).

So it appears that bridge strikes by overheight vehicles severe enough to damage bridges beyond repair are slowly bringing I-90 across Erie County into compliance by knocking-down the superstructures of bridges that are too low.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

ARMOURERERIC

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 01, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
After the meet in Mentor, Ohio, over the weekend, we were on the (short) section of I-90 across Erie County, Pennsylvania (between Ashtabula County, Ohio and Chautauqua County, New York), and there were several bridges crossing the freeway that were missing (the bridge abutments remain, blocked-off).

I obviously did not witness the demise of these bridges, but it is my strong suspicion is that the missing bridges were probably lower than current Interstate standard height (rather common on Interstates in Pennsylvania (I have seen as low as 13'6", there were once several low bridges on I-83 between the Maryland border and Harrisburg that have been replaced), but unfortunately low bridges are not so common (on signed Interstates) in neighboring Ohio and New York State).

So it appears that bridge strikes by overheight vehicles severe enough to damage bridges beyond repair are slowly bringing I-90 across Erie County into compliance by knocking-down the superstructures of bridges that are too low.

IIRC, that section was started slightly pre-interstate as a Turnpike project and hence had originally been designed to kid 1950's PTC standards

seicer

I had no idea it was begun as that. But yeah, those bridges were pretty low and while I don't recall any major strikes that caused the bridges to be removed, the girders had some dents to them.

BrianP

There's also one on I-78.  And that section I believe predates interstate design as well since I think that was originally just a US 22 freeway. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4811611,-76.2670314,3a,75y,73.81h,80.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snPWhBlhoQR3uVzJS95tfiQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And conveniently there's a tractor trailer in view which helps show how low the bridge was.

Aerial photography shows that new bridge has been built there. 

Old streetview does not show any height signs for this bridge.  But it sure seems from the looks of it that it was struck westbound:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4812811,-76.266342,3a,75y,263.75h,83.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBAq9soBFT4bWMsp3eDUYKg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

This one is pretty low at 13'11" as well.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5117976,-76.1285065,3a,75y,58.1h,82.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV0as16QPNi2Z7MSnuuOl-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It looks like there's less than a foot of clearance for the tractor trailer.

And again here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5156016,-76.111159,3a,75y,38.83h,92.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdNcW10oWirC4J50K8BMIcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Usually in cases like this don't they not overlay the concrete under the bridge to retain as much clearance as possible?  I'm surprised they didn't do that here.

At least the bridges along this stretch are being replaced. 

qguy

Quote from: BrianP on October 02, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
There's also one on I-78.  And that section I believe predates interstate design as well since I think that was originally just a US 22 freeway. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4811611,-76.2670314,3a,75y,73.81h,80.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snPWhBlhoQR3uVzJS95tfiQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And conveniently there's a tractor trailer in view which helps show how low the bridge was.

Aerial photography shows that new bridge has been built there. 

Old streetview does not show any height signs for this bridge.  But it sure seems from the looks of it that it was struck westbound:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4812811,-76.266342,3a,75y,263.75h,83.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBAq9soBFT4bWMsp3eDUYKg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

That's Airport Road, in the Bethel area. I briefly (for six months–don't ask) lived in Rehrersburg seven years ago. That bridge was indeed struck by a truck, a long time ago. Not sure when, though. PennDOT removed the damaged concrete girders and left half the span open. At some point a few years ago PennDOT removed all of the center span.

The reason it sat for so long unrepaired was that PennDOT and the local municipality were at odds about who owned it. PennDOT claimed it was the responsibility of the local municipality; the municipality claimed it was PennDOT's.

As is often the case in fights like this in Pennsylvania, eventually PennDOT agreed to replace the bridge if the municipality would take possession of it and assume future responsibility for it.

There are bridges all over Pennsylvania for which ownership is unclear.

ixnay

Quote from: qguy on October 02, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: BrianP on October 02, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
There's also one on I-78.  And that section I believe predates interstate design as well since I think that was originally just a US 22 freeway. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4811611,-76.2670314,3a,75y,73.81h,80.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snPWhBlhoQR3uVzJS95tfiQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And conveniently there's a tractor trailer in view which helps show how low the bridge was.

Aerial photography shows that new bridge has been built there. 

Old streetview does not show any height signs for this bridge.  But it sure seems from the looks of it that it was struck westbound:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4812811,-76.266342,3a,75y,263.75h,83.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBAq9soBFT4bWMsp3eDUYKg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

That's Airport Road, in the Bethel area. ...

The reason it sat for so long unrepaired was that PennDOT and the local municipality were at odds about who owned it. PennDOT claimed it was the responsibility of the local municipality; the municipality claimed it was PennDOT's.

As is often the case in fights like this in Pennsylvania, eventually PennDOT agreed to replace the bridge if the municipality would take possession of it and assume future responsibility for it.

Has that bridge been fully replaced by now?

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

qguy

Quote from: ixnay on October 02, 2018, 06:57:58 PM
Quote from: qguy on October 02, 2018, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: BrianP on October 02, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
There's also one on I-78.  And that section I believe predates interstate design as well since I think that was originally just a US 22 freeway. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4811611,-76.2670314,3a,75y,73.81h,80.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snPWhBlhoQR3uVzJS95tfiQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And conveniently there's a tractor trailer in view which helps show how low the bridge was.

Aerial photography shows that new bridge has been built there. 

Old streetview does not show any height signs for this bridge.  But it sure seems from the looks of it that it was struck westbound:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4812811,-76.266342,3a,75y,263.75h,83.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBAq9soBFT4bWMsp3eDUYKg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

That's Airport Road, in the Bethel area. ...

The reason it sat for so long unrepaired was that PennDOT and the local municipality were at odds about who owned it. PennDOT claimed it was the responsibility of the local municipality; the municipality claimed it was PennDOT's.

As is often the case in fights like this in Pennsylvania, eventually PennDOT agreed to replace the bridge if the municipality would take possession of it and assume future responsibility for it.
Has that bridge been fully replaced by now?

Yes, fully open. It was finished, I believe, a few months ago.

cpzilliacus

#890
Visited the PennDOT sign garden located near Meadville, Crawford County, Pennsylvania (located east a short distance east of I-79 Exit 147A on U.S. 6/U.S. 19/U.S. 322) a few weeks ago, and some members might be interested in what it looks like. 

Images are on Facebook here.

Location is here on Google Maps (this is the PennDOT Crawford County maintenance facility and office complex).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

qguy

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 15, 2018, 03:31:36 PM
Visited the PennDOT sign garden...

That really is a sign garden. When you said "garden," I thought it would be more like what might be called a sign "farm," a place where signs were temporarily stored outdoors, but no, that's a garden alright. What a hoot. Thanks for sharing.

CentralPAGal

#892
I-83 East Shore Section 2:

Ramp alignments:


Sorry for crappy quality phone pics.

The mainline of the section 2 proposal seems to be approximately inline with that of the 2003 concept. It is shifted to the west of the current alignment. Many of the ramps have been rearranged compared to the previous concept though, and the interchange with Derry St. is a SPUI now. Also, old Paxton St. to the east has been extended across the railroad to Derry St.

I-83 East Shore Section 3:


Section 3 does not include a reconstruction of the John Harris bridge, I was told due to cost, and that it might be in a future west shore project. Additionally, the 2nd St. ramp alignments are the same as current, aside from slight adjustments for added lanes to the east. the previous concept had this redone as a trumpet. Paxton St. is realigned at 13th street. Otherwise, it is similar to the 2003 concept, including the replacement of the 13th St. interchange with one connecting directly to Cameron St. Also, it appears as had previously been done with the northbound side during the west shore early action project in 2015, the southbound shoulder of the Harris bridge will be used as a traffic lane, therefore allowing eight lanes on the bridge.
Clinched:
I: 83, 97, 176, 180 (PA), 270 (MD), 283, 395 (MD), 470 (OH-WV), 471, 795 (MD)
Traveled:
I: 70, 71, 75, 76 (E), 78, 79, 80, 81, 86 (E), 95, 99, 270 (OH), 275 (KY-IN-OH), 376, 495 (MD-VA), 579, 595 (MD), 695 (MD)
US: 1, 9, 11, 13, 15, 22, 25, 30, 40, 42, 50, 113, 119, 127, 209, 220, 222, 301

Roadsguy

Beat me to it. I was there too toward the end, though I didn't get any pictures since all those diagrams will be posted on the website. Big improvements they have planned. Hopefully not much gets cut by the time they actually start construction.

Meanwhile, the 283-283 cloverleaf is further along, though the rest of the PA 283 reconstruction isn't that far advanced. The WB-NB ramp at the cloverleaf is now shifted onto the new smoother alignment, though the new signalized left turn isn't open yet.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

seicer

Has this deviated from what they posted on the website long ago? I didn't think anything would be renovated on the Harris Bridge, which received major updates in 2015.

CentralPAGal

#895
Quote from: seicer on October 18, 2018, 10:42:06 PM
Has this deviated from what they posted on the website long ago? I didn't think anything would be renovated on the Harris Bridge, which received major updates in 2015.
Section 2 is quite different. The ramps are more complex. Section 3 is pretty similar to the 2003 concept, some details aside.

There were no major updates to that bridge in 2015. The only thing that changed is that the northbound shoulder was remarked as a traffic lane. It currently carries 7 lanes: 4 northbound and 3 southbound.

Quote from: Roadsguy on October 18, 2018, 10:25:55 PM
Meanwhile, the 283-283 cloverleaf is further along, though the rest of the PA 283 reconstruction isn't that far advanced. The WB-NB ramp at the cloverleaf is now shifted onto the new smoother alignment, though the new signalized left turn isn't open yet.

I noticed that as well. Having previously gone through there before traffic shifted, I wasn't sure if the ramp was going to be 1 or 2 lanes, but it appears that its just going to be the one lane. I'm kind of curious if the southbound-to-eastbound loop is going to get signaled too, like the west-to-south loop in the 581/US 15 interchange.
Clinched:
I: 83, 97, 176, 180 (PA), 270 (MD), 283, 395 (MD), 470 (OH-WV), 471, 795 (MD)
Traveled:
I: 70, 71, 75, 76 (E), 78, 79, 80, 81, 86 (E), 95, 99, 270 (OH), 275 (KY-IN-OH), 376, 495 (MD-VA), 579, 595 (MD), 695 (MD)
US: 1, 9, 11, 13, 15, 22, 25, 30, 40, 42, 50, 113, 119, 127, 209, 220, 222, 301

74/171FAN

Quote from: CentralPAguy on October 18, 2018, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 18, 2018, 10:25:55 PM
Meanwhile, the 283-283 cloverleaf is further along, though the rest of the PA 283 reconstruction isn't that far advanced. The WB-NB ramp at the cloverleaf is now shifted onto the new smoother alignment, though the new signalized left turn isn't open yet.

I noticed that as well. Having previously gone through there before traffic shifted, I wasn't sure if the ramp was going to be 1 or 2 lanes, but it appears that its just going to be the one lane. I'm kind of curious if the southbound-to-eastbound loop is going to get signaled too, like the west-to-south loop in the 581/US 15 interchange.

If I remember correctly, that will not be the case.  I will say that I believe briantroutman will be wondering when the realigned I-83 concept at the Eisenhower Interchange is may be applied to the I-283 to PA 283 movement.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

briantroutman

Quote from: CentralPAguy on October 18, 2018, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on October 18, 2018, 10:42:06 PM
Has this deviated from what they posted on the website long ago? I didn't think anything would be renovated on the Harris Bridge, which received major updates in 2015.
Section 2 is quite different. The ramps are more complex.

Sure, there are differences, but I'm surprised (happily) that it is fairly faithful to the arguably ambitious master plan of 15 years ago. The biggest deviation I see is that the 2003 plan kept the old ground-level Bypass 230 route as a sort of C-D for the Derry Street Interchange (similar to the way it is today) whereas the new plan has this odd SPUI at Derry Street which is rather complexly integrated into the overall interchange design. Here are images from the 2003 master plan:



But as CentralPAguy mentioned, the I-83 mainline is on basically the same new alignment that was proposed in the 2003 plan–and further, the overall concept of the new Eisenhower Interchange is fairly similar–just a little more complex. The new interchange at Paxton Street with its large loop looks to be nearly the same as in the 2003 plan.

Honestly, after seeing how the 2003 plan's completely redesigned York Split was shelved (at least for now) in favor of some very underwhelming improvements of the existing inadequate interchange, I'm shocked that PennDOT's new plan for Eisenhower is as comprehensive as it is.

Also of note: The 2003's plan to replace the 2nd Street Interchange with a trumpet appears to have been scuttled–I assume because the interchange's integration with the Harris Bridge.

Roadsguy

Quote from: briantroutman on October 19, 2018, 12:08:28 AM
Honestly, after seeing how the 2003 plan's completely redesigned York Split was shelved (at least for now) in favor of some very underwhelming improvements of the existing inadequate interchange, I'm shocked that PennDOT's new plan for Eisenhower is as comprehensive as it is.

Shelved for now indeed. The minor York Split improvements weren't intended to be permanent. It just needed improvement now but would've been the last part of the Master Plan completed. They do intend to revisit the original plans (confirmed in the video shown at the open house and recently posted on the website), though we'll see if that actually happens in our lifetimes...
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

qguy

The reason the Derry Street interchange is more complex is that the current plan provides access to it from every direction from I-83, I-283, and US 322.

If PennDOT can pull this entire thing off, it will be a game-changer for the area. One of the features is the stitching together of some of the local street connections which were severed fifty years ago and have been negatively affecting the area ever since.

I'm told the local EMT stakeholders, for example, are enthusiastic about it. And at the open house last night I heard many positive comments about the proposed plan from people who live in residences visible on the plans (IOW, in the immediate vicinity, who would be affected by the changes on multiple levels).



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.