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I-73 updates?

Started by Buummu, April 27, 2011, 12:39:37 AM

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The Ghostbuster

US 220 never connected to US 20 (though it did connect with the now decommissioned US 120), so it probably should have had a different number. Back to Interstate 73 talk, I myself don't see it leaving North Carolina anytime soon. If it ever does get built between Martinsville and Roanoke, it should use as much of existing US 220 as possible. As for whether it will ever enter South Carolina, I believe that is up in the air.


Hot Rod Hootenanny

We have an update concerning I-73 in Ohio!
The Toledo Metropolitan Area Council of Governments president Tim Brown sent a paper to Gov' DeWine and whomever else, asking them to dust off the "30 year old" plans for I-73 in Ohio.
http://www.tmacog.org/BP_2020/01_2020/Corridor_Columbus.htm
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Buck87

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 20, 2020, 09:02:49 PM
We have an update concerning I-73 in Ohio!
The Toledo Metropolitan Area Council of Governments president Tim Brown sent a paper to Gov' DeWine and whomever else, asking them to dust off the "30 year old" plans for I-73 in Ohio.
http://www.tmacog.org/BP_2020/01_2020/Corridor_Columbus.htm

Kinda scratching my head at the line "By some counts, drivers encounter 40 traffic lights before they reach the I-270 beltway around Columbus."

So are there other counts with a different number? The only difference in the number of traffic lights counted in a study should be based on when they were counted, since more and more keep getting added over time.

amroad17

For any I-73 idea to have success in Ohio would require new construction from Waldo (along US 23) to I-71 somewhere between Berkshire and Marengo to bypass all the traffic lights along US 23 from Delaware to I-270.  This is the idea that, I believe, vtk had for I-171.

Of course, there would have to be significant upgrades to OH 15 and US 23 from Findlay to at least Upper Sandusky (if this is the planned routing for I-73) as well as for US 23 south of Columbus.  Would I-73 be routed on I-71 and I-270 around Columbus?  Would I-73 use current OH 823 to bypass Portsmouth?  How would I-73 cross the Ohio River from near Chesapeake, OH to Huntington, WV?  Twinning the US 52 Rahal Bridge (with upgrades to the section from the bridge to I-64) or possibly finishing the OH 7 Proctorville bypass to a possible new bridge crossing over to WV 193 with appropriate upgrades to I-64, Exit 18?

Notice that an official from Toledo has requested this.  Possibly to facilitate business from his home area.

I agree that there isn't an unimpeded corridor from Toledo to Columbus.  To help with that would be the suggestion written above (vtk's idea).  That is what is needed the most at this time.  The highways from Toledo to at least Waldo are adequate for the traffic now.  It is the section from Waldo to I-270 that either needs to be upgraded or bypassed.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Buck87

Quote from: amroad17 on January 21, 2020, 03:20:08 PM
For any I-73 idea to have success in Ohio would require new construction from Waldo (along US 23) to I-71 somewhere between Berkshire and Marengo to bypass all the traffic lights along US 23 from Delaware to I-270.  This is the idea that, I believe, vtk had for I-171.

Indeed, here's vtk's thread on that idea: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4801.0

The Ghostbuster

Ohio should make the proposed corridor completely freeway from the West Virginia/Ohio border to the Ohio/Michigan border first. Then we can talk about giving the corridor an Interstate designation (such as 73).

amroad17

There are some sections that are set up for a possible I-73 designation--if it ever came to fruition.

     - US 52 freeway from OH 823 Wheelersburg to South Point (the split exit leading to the 12th Street and 13th Street bridges toward Ashland, KY would have to be re-done)
     - US 23 freeway from Waldo to at least Carey (maybe minor upgrades and/or a third lane)

For the other sections of US 23 and, maybe, OH 15--if I-73 were routed that way, this would be a large undertaking and may take at least 30 years to complete (sounds like I-87 in NC, yes?).  However, is this corridor needed? 

Like I mentioned above, the I-171 proposal by vtk is the most important part of an unimpeded Toledo-Columbus corridor.  Going south on I-75 to OH 15 south of Findlay and meeting US 23 in Carey is a good route toward Columbus.  It is the part south of Waldo to I-270 that is the bottleneck. 

Another point about I-73: if someone wants to drive to the Carolinas from Columbus, would US 23-OH 823-US 52-I-64 be the preferred route or would most drivers use US 35 east out of Chillicothe to get to I-64 near Teays Valley, WV--even with the somewhat treacherous two-lane section?  I would use US 35.  The last section of the US 35 expressway may be under construction soon, allowing a complete 4-lane corridor (with no traffic lights) between Chillicothe and Teays Valley.

The only reason the proposed I-73 was routed along US 23 and US 52 was to provide western WV an improved highway to possibly improve their lives.  I-73 would not be a route I would take if I needed to go to the Greensboro, NC area, for example.  From Columbus, it would be US 23-US 35-I-64-I-77-I-74-US 52-I-40 not (proposed I-73) from Huntington to Bluefield.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Buck87

Quote from: amroad17 on January 22, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
     - US 23 freeway from Waldo to at least Carey (maybe minor upgrades and/or a third lane)

This section is not a full freeway. By my quick count, there are 18 at grade intersections between Waldo and Carey. Most of those are north of Marion, and the longest section of what can be called freeway is roughly 11 miles between the Linn-Hipsher Rd intersection just south of the OH 4 interchange and the Newmans Cardington Rd intersection north of Waldo.

sparker

While the seemingly renewed interest in an Ohio section of I-73 is indeed intriguing, if the wheels are indeed set into motion, it would be pointless to designate/sign I-73 anywhere north of Findlay unless Michigan were to be likewise inclined to pursue their section (which at least contains quite a bit of "ready-to-go" mileage, unlike Ohio).  Then again, Ohio could simply sign I-73 up I-75, I-475, and US 23 right to the MI line in a "your move..." type of gesture. 

At the other end of the state, one of the (many) old sticking points to the overall I-73/74 corridor in the area was the need for a new Ohio River Bridge; the current US 52 bridge into Huntington, WV is decidedly inadequate for designation.  At one point there were very preliminary suggestions for a bridge downstream paralleling the NS rail bridge right at the Tug Fork River (KY/WV state line) confluence.  But without a route continuation into WV, such a project would likely be ridiculed as either "pork" or simply a vanity project (a 4-lane structure with adequate clearance for river traffic wouldn't come cheap by any means!).  Also -- since the OH 823/Portsmouth Bypass project was built directly along the proposed path of the original (HPC #5) corridor -- the I-73/74 "split" was to occur at or near the north end of OH 823 at Lucasville -- some facility modifications would be required (the narrow ROW itself could conceivably be granted a terrain waiver), particularly at the US 52 merge. 

Granted, the Columbus-Findlay section would likely see quite a bit of traffic (particularly on OSU-UofM game day; maybe part of it could be called the Hayes-Schembeckler Memorial Freeway!) -- but the traffic levels south of Columbus might not warrant much more than is in place today.  And the concern that a completed-as-at-least-expressway US 35 down to I-64 would siphon off most of the commercial traffic is certainly valid, particularly since the chances of the WV section of I-73/74 being completed in anyone's lifetime are functionally nil.   But it sounds like the full HPC-5 concept, including the extension of I-74 southeast from Cincinnati, is up for consideration.  At the risk of slipping into fictional mode, if the project somehow ended up in my lap, what I'd do is first consult with WVDOT about their schedule for completing US 35, and then cajole the state's congressional delegation into introducing amendments to HPC #5 that would reroute I-73 southeast from Chillicothe over US 35 to a terminus at I-64; then look into the original I-74 extension east over OH 32 and a new-terrain connector to Lucasville, where it would take over OH 823.  At that point, some crossing of the Ohio River -- into either KY or WV, with an extension down to I-64, would be developed (this may entail some funding provisions from OH to effect such a connection).  That would funnel traffic from both Columbus and Cincinnati down to eastward I-64 and thence onward to the Atlantic Seaboard states. 

This would be one huge project to bite off (probably why it was cancelled in the first place); rendering it a bit more feasible in terms of service and expenses ("piggybacking" on US 35 would save a bundle in ROW costs) might be the key to its success this time around.   

amroad17

Buck87, I stand corrected.  I believed that it was entirely a freeway from Waldo to Carey--didn't really check myself looking at Google maps.

In reality, I cannot see I-73 ever being completed anywhere north of Roanoke, VA.  Michigan has shown absolutely no interest in an I-73 concept and the potential undertaking in Ohio would have astronomical costs.  I do agree with sparker about possible legislation to amend the route of I-73 if, by some miracle, it would come to fruition.  This whole undertaking would have to be coordinated between Ohio and West Virginia.

However, I believe it would be a bit crazy to have I-73 piggyback I-64 and I-77 from Huntington or Teays Valley all the way to Princeton.  To me it would be a useless multiplex.  In fact, the whole original idea of I-73, however noble, has become rather bastardized.

Quote from: sparker on January 22, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
While the seemingly renewed interest in an Ohio section of I-73 is indeed intriguing, if the wheels are indeed set into motion, it would be pointless to designate/sign I-73 anywhere north of Findlay unless Michigan were to be likewise inclined to pursue their section (which at least contains quite a bit of "ready-to-go" mileage, unlike Ohio).  Then again, Ohio could simply sign I-73 up I-75, I-475, and US 23 right to the MI line in a "your move..." type of gesture. 

At the other end of the state, one of the (many) old sticking points to the overall I-73/74 corridor in the area was the need for a new Ohio River Bridge; the current US 52 bridge into Huntington, WV is decidedly inadequate for designation.  At one point there were very preliminary suggestions for a bridge downstream paralleling the NS rail bridge right at the Tug Fork River (KY/WV state line) confluence.  But without a route continuation into WV, such a project would likely be ridiculed as either "pork" or simply a vanity project (a 4-lane structure with adequate clearance for river traffic wouldn't come cheap by any means!).  Also -- since the OH 823/Portsmouth Bypass project was built directly along the proposed path of the original (HPC #5) corridor -- the I-73/74 "split" was to occur at or near the north end of OH 823 at Lucasville -- some facility modifications would be required (the narrow ROW itself could conceivably be granted a terrain waiver), particularly at the US 52 merge. 

Granted, the Columbus-Findlay section would likely see quite a bit of traffic (particularly on OSU-UofM game day; maybe part of it could be called the Hayes-Schembeckler Memorial Freeway!) -- but the traffic levels south of Columbus might not warrant much more than is in place today.  And the concern that a completed-as-at-least-expressway US 35 down to I-64 would siphon off most of the commercial traffic is certainly valid, particularly since the chances of the WV section of I-73/74 being completed in anyone's lifetime are functionally nil.   But it sounds like the full HPC-5 concept, including the extension of I-74 southeast from Cincinnati, is up for consideration.  At the risk of slipping into fictional mode, if the project somehow ended up in my lap, what I'd do is first consult with WVDOT about their schedule for completing US 35, and then cajole the state's congressional delegation into introducing amendments to HPC #5 that would reroute I-73 southeast from Chillicothe over US 35 to a terminus at I-64; then look into the original I-74 extension east over OH 32 and a new-terrain connector to Lucasville, where it would take over OH 823.  At that point, some crossing of the Ohio River -- into either KY or WV, with an extension down to I-64, would be developed (this may entail some funding provisions from OH to effect such a connection).  That would funnel traffic from both Columbus and Cincinnati down to eastward I-64 and thence onward to the Atlantic Seaboard states. 

This would be one huge project to bite off (probably why it was cancelled in the first place); rendering it a bit more feasible in terms of service and expenses ("piggybacking" on US 35 would save a bundle in ROW costs) might be the key to its success this time around.   
The statement about "your move" reminds me of what NC possibly could do to VA with both I-73 and I-87.  :biggrin:
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

JREwing78

Quote from: amroad17 on January 23, 2020, 07:26:19 AM
Michigan has shown absolutely no interest in an I-73 concept...

I think if MDOT had double the budget it has now, it would look hard at it. There's significant SE-NW traffic that would be pulled off of US-23, I-94, and I-96 with such a route. Michigan International Speedway is a big traffic generator with only 2-lane roads feeding it in any direction. Adrian is one of Michigan's largest cities with no direct freeway access. MDOT would also love to complete freeway conversion between St. Johns and Ithaca. The main issues here are funding and a large backlog of arguably more pressing projects (6-laning I-94, I-96, and US-131, modernizing I-94 in Detroit, etc).

sparker

Quote from: amroad17 on January 23, 2020, 07:26:19 AM
However, I believe it would be a bit crazy to have I-73 piggyback I-64 and I-77 from Huntington or Teays Valley all the way to Princeton.  To me it would be a useless multiplex.  In fact, the whole original idea of I-73, however noble, has become rather bastardized.

I agree that a multiplex (triple for part of the run) of I-73 over I-64 and/or 77 would be duplicative although not fully pointless; for navigational purposes it could be an "implied multiplex" from Princeton (or even Wytheville) to Charleston and on to Teays Valley, with signs at either end stating "for continuation of I-73 use I-77 to I-64 west" and vice-versa.  As far as I-74 is concerned, if it were up to me and the plans outlined above actually reached fruition, that route would terminate at I-64 near Huntington, WV or Ashland, KY.   What to re-designate the existing I-74 mileage in NC is a matter to be discussed in that region's threads (not that that hasn't been hashed out repeatedly since this forum's inception!).   

sprjus4

#112
Quote from: amroad17 on January 23, 2020, 07:26:19 AM
The statement about "your move" reminds me of what NC possibly could do to VA with both I-73 and I-87.  :biggrin:
NCDOT is laying off with I-73 north of NC-68 until Virginia begins construction on the Martinsville Southern Connector...if ever funded  :-D..., though they intend to construct I-87 up to the state line. It's only a 12 mile segment in Virginia that's not freeway, and is all limited-access, lacking only a few interchanges. Should be a relatively easy upgrade to extend the designation to I-64 to fully complete the Norfolk-Raleigh interstate as opposed to having a 12 mile gap, and will likely eventually get built once NCDOT begins the northern segment, which could happen as early as 2027 as of now. The project is currently on the HRTPO's (Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization) radar, and is supported by the city of Chesapeake, the FTAC (Freight Transportation Advisory Committee) and various other organizations in the area. It certainly would be much cheaper as opposed to upgrading / relocating nearly 70 miles of non-limited-access US-58 to interstate standards.

vtk

Anyone want to help me rewrite the text of my I-171 page to make it sound more professional, with the goal of sending it to Toledo Metropolitan Area Council of Governments and Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission?
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

The Ghostbuster

By the time Interstate 73 goes beyond Roanoke, VA (even getting that far will be iffy), we'll all probably be six feet under.

thspfc

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 15, 2020, 06:26:44 PM
By the time Interstate 73 goes beyond Roanoke, VA (even getting that far will be iffy), we'll all probably be six feet under.
Not me.

sprjus4

#116
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 15, 2020, 06:26:44 PM
By the time Interstate 73 goes beyond Roanoke, VA (even getting that far will be iffy), we'll all probably be six feet under.
I can't see it ever extending beyond Roanoke, and -if- it does, it will likely end at I-77. At that point, a relocated 4 lane 65 mph US-52 expressway with at-grade intersections in West Virginia will continue north. Through traffic will likely continue utilizing the West Virginia Turnpike (I-77) and I-64 between Princeton and Huntington.

I could see construction of an interstate highway or freeway upgrade between Findlay and Parkersburg via Columbus that could be a "northern" I-73 or a duplex along I-77 between Parkersburg and Princeton. Still, this is assuming a lot and may well be fictional. At this rate, the only planned facility for I-73 is Roanoke to Myrtle Beach.

abqtraveler

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 15, 2020, 11:47:30 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 15, 2020, 06:26:44 PM
By the time Interstate 73 goes beyond Roanoke, VA (even getting that far will be iffy), we'll all probably be six feet under.
I can't see it ever extending beyond Roanoke, and -if- it does, it will likely end at I-77. At that point, a relocated 4 lane 65 mph US-52 expressway with at-grade intersections in West Virginia will continue north. Through traffic will likely continue utilizing the West Virginia Turnpike (I-77) and I-64 between Princeton and Huntington.

I could see construction of an interstate highway or freeway upgrade between Findlay and Parkersburg via Columbus that could be a "northern" I-73 or a duplex along I-77 between Parkersburg and Princeton. Still, this is assuming a lot and may well be fictional. At this rate, the only planned facility for I-73 is Roanoke to Myrtle Beach.

For Ohio and Michigan, most of the I-73 corridor already exists as either freeways or 4-lane divided highways. Both states abandoned further study of I-73 since Michigan's portion is already served by freeways and interstates, save for the 17-mile section of US-127 north of Lansing that has at-grade intersections. Michigan plans to eventually eliminate these grade crossings and driveway accesses so that US-127 will be a continuous freeway from Lansing to I-75 in Grayling. Similarly in Ohio, ODOT is working to upgrade the 4-lane US-23, Ohio Route 15, and US-68 to a full freeway between I-75 in Findlay and the Ohio River at Portsmouth. Those upgrades, when completed, would effectively complete the I-73 corridor in both states, but neither state seems intent on pursuing the I-73 designation afterward; rather keeping the existing US and state route designations for the corridor.   
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

SkyPesos

#118
Quote from: abqtraveler on February 18, 2021, 11:11:37 AM
Similarly in Ohio, ODOT is working to upgrade the 4-lane US-23, Ohio Route 15, and US-68 to a full freeway between I-75 in Findlay and the Ohio River at Portsmouth. Those upgrades, when completed, would effectively complete the I-73 corridor in both states, but neither state seems intent on pursuing the I-73 designation afterward; rather keeping the existing US and state route designations for the corridor.
I'll be surprised if US 23 gets upgraded into a full freeway in the next 10-15 years. There's still a lot of work to be done. I'll say the highest on the priority list to turn US 23 into a full freeway is a freeway bypass around the northern and eastern sides of Delaware between US 36 and US 23. For numbering choices for a Delaware Bypass freeway, the following 4 unused state route x23 or x36 numbers could work: 223, 623, 436, 836. My preference is 223.
Also a DDI for the I-71/US 36 interchange seems appropriate, as it looks like most of the drivers gets on/off I-71 at that point, with the outlet on the right side and traffic heading towards US 23 on the left.
On the south side of Columbus, US 23 can get a freeway upgrade between I-270 and US 35, as most traffic heading from Columbus to the Carolinas will turn southeast onto US 35 towards Charleston and the WV turnpike. I don't really see a need for US 23 south of US 35 for an upgrade, as most traffic to the southeast would've already got off US 23 to US 35. Thankfully, WV is finally finishing the last 4 lane section of US 35.

Ryctor2018

If I were Ohio DOT with a pot of gold, I would construct a four lane tie-in from US-23 east to I-71, north of Delaware. Running 4-5 miles north of US-36 from US-23 north of Delaware, then connecting to US-36 later on an eastern alignment. To save money, engineers can use the US-36 four-lane with modest upgrades. The strip before Interstate 71 can be bypassed to the south if upgrades become too expensive.
I haven't traveled this route in years, but I remember using this connection at times to bypass US-23 south of Delaware where the route bog down into heavy commuter traffic. Regardless, I would not have I-73 in Michigan or Ohio either, since current highways work fine today.
2DI's traveled: 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24, 30, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 49, 55, 57, 59, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 85, 87, 88, 90, 93, 94, 95, 96

LM117

#120
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 15, 2020, 06:26:44 PM
By the time Interstate 73 goes beyond Roanoke, VA (even getting that far will be iffy) NC, we'll all probably be six feet under.

FTFY.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Hot Rod Hootenanny

For all of you who keep dreaming up roads between I-71 & US 23 to build I-73, I offer you the Delaware County Auditor's GIS website. This way you can how many properties you need to take out and how much each property is worth.
https://auditor.delco-gis.org/
P.S. You can't build new roads over gov't property (i.e. Alum Creek & Delaware State Parks)
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

seicer

I can attest that Ohio (ODOT) is not looking to upgrade US Route 23/OH Route 15 to a full freeway between Interstate 75 and Portsmouth. There are no active studies nor are there active projects that specifically note Interstate 73's involvement. Projects that are current or recently completed include:

- A forthcoming study for US Route 23 in Delaware County - that may or may not involve a freeway.
- Bloomfield bypass south of Columbus.
- Portsmouth bypass (recently built but has one-lane ramps at its terminus).

That's... it.

Henry

So after 30 years of planning, it's safe to say that I-73 (along with the I-74 extension) was a failed project from the start.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

SkyPesos

Quote from: Henry on February 19, 2021, 10:50:29 AM
So after 30 years of planning, it's safe to say that I-73 (along with the I-74 extension) was a failed project from the start.
Yes, for travel to the Carolinas, US 35 is just way too convenient compared to the alignment proposed for I-73/74, and even more so once WV finishes the last 4 lane portion.

Without freeway upgrades to US 23, the road can still improve with a bypass around South Bloomfield, and an expressway bypass on the northeast side of Delaware between US 36 and US 23, and traffic can use US 36 to connect to I-71. The in planning Sunbury Pkwy project will reduce the burden on the I-71/US 36 interchange.



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