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The official Massachusetts Route 2 improvement project thread

Started by massroadpatriot, November 11, 2012, 12:32:56 AM

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PHLBOS

Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
GPS does NOT equal GOD


bob7374

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 02, 2015, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
Given that the I-95 exit is, somewhat ironically, at mile 128, the future exit number for Crosby's corner would probably be 124.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: bob7374 on July 02, 2015, 10:17:40 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 02, 2015, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
Given that the I-95 exit is, somewhat ironically, at mile 128, the future exit number for Crosby's corner would probably be 124.

I'm not seeing the irony.

hotdogPi

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 02, 2015, 12:22:39 PM

Quote from: bob7374 on July 02, 2015, 10:17:40 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 02, 2015, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
Given that the I-95 exit is, somewhat ironically, at mile 128, the future exit number for Crosby's corner would probably be 124.

I'm not seeing the irony.

MA 2's mile 128 is at MA 128 (0 is at the New York border). However, it is a misuse of the word "ironically".
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: 1 on July 02, 2015, 12:25:36 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 02, 2015, 12:22:39 PM

Quote from: bob7374 on July 02, 2015, 10:17:40 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 02, 2015, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
Given that the I-95 exit is, somewhat ironically, at mile 128, the future exit number for Crosby's corner would probably be 124.

I'm not seeing the irony.

MA 2's mile 128 is at MA 128 (0 is at the New York border). However, it is a misuse of the word "ironically".

I know the milepost, I was just making a little nudge about the Alanisism.

PHLBOS

I believe the irony here is that 128 digits will be making a return to the main signage (BGS') at this interchange; as many here know, the FHWA has long since banned the erection of MA 128 shields on BGS' & D6/D8 signs along the I-95 portion of the Yankee Division Highway.  Granted, this time as an exit/interchange number as opposed to the route number but nonetheless.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Pete from Boston

Ok, that I'll concede has some irony to it. 

Is there an official written FHWA "ban" on signing 128 overhead? 

PHLBOS

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 02, 2015, 04:37:48 PMIs there an official written FHWA "ban" on signing 128 overhead? 
Roadman could probably answer that question better than I; it might be in the form of a letter/memorandum.  He was the one that told me and others here that such actions were indeed in response to the Feds. 

However, such a prohibition (more of an omission, in reality) is indeed listed in the state signing standards for secondary highways; see page 7

Quote from: Guide Sign Policy for Secondary State Highways 2005 EditionOn signs for the entrance ramps along the Route I-95/S.R. 128 overlap between Canton and Peabody, only the I-95 route sign and destinations shall be displayed.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 02, 2015, 04:37:48 PM
Ok, that I'll concede has some irony to it. 

Is there an official written FHWA "ban" on signing 128 overhead? 
FHWA first provided the direction regarding eliminating the 128 designation from BGS and LGS panels along I-95 to MassHighway in writing in the early 1990s.  The request was included in memorandums regarding their review comments on multiple sign replacement projects along I-95/128 that MassHighway submitted to FHWA for approval at the time.  However, they stopped short of requiring total elimination of the 128 designation on the I-95 section (IMO, a HUGE blunder on their part), and allowed 128 route marker assemblies to remain in place.

I'll dig through my archives when I get a chance and see if I can find one of those memos.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Alps

Quote from: roadman on July 03, 2015, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 02, 2015, 04:37:48 PM
Ok, that I'll concede has some irony to it. 

Is there an official written FHWA "ban" on signing 128 overhead? 
FHWA first provided the direction regarding eliminating the 128 designation from BGS and LGS panels along I-95 to MassHighway in writing in the early 1990s.  The request was included in memorandums regarding their review comments on multiple sign replacement projects along I-95/128 that MassHighway submitted to FHWA for approval at the time.  However, they stopped short of requiring total elimination of the 128 designation on the I-95 section (IMO, a HUGE blunder on their part), and allowed 128 route marker assemblies to remain in place.

I'll dig through my archives when I get a chance and see if I can find one of those memos.
I don't see how FHWA can require MA to de-designate a state highway. For that matter, I don't even see how they can require MA to un-sign it. Granted, 128/95 is a unique case, but the most I can really see being required at a Federal level is that the Interstate must be listed first and no smaller than the state route. Surprised MA didn't challenge on this.

ne11931

Quote from: ne11931 on June 22, 2015, 09:12:37 PM
The latest traffic shift (6/19/15)  has some big changes. Westbound traffic is now running over the new bridge but using what will be the future eastbound roadway, no more traffic signal westbound!  However Route 2 eastbound roadway (future service road) now has a traffic light at the future service rd/ Rt 2A intersection!!  I hope everyone can get handle this temporary alignment before there's a bad accident. Rt 2A to westbound 2 traffic uses a portion of old 2 east up the hill with a 180 turn which gets them headed west. You really need to see this to get the layout.

Right know from the former Rt 2/2A/Cambridge Turnpike intersection you follow old 2 East to get to 2 West and old 2 West to get to 2 East.
It could be interesting this summer with the Concord-Lexington tourists trying to use GPS .

PHLBOS

Quote from: Alps on July 05, 2015, 09:01:08 PMI don't even see how they can require MA to un-sign it. Granted, 128/95 is a unique case, but the most I can really see being required at a Federal level is that the Interstate must be listed first and no smaller than the state route. Surprised MA didn't challenge on this.
2-word answer for such: Federal dollars; especially back when Interstates had an automatic 90-10 federal/state spending mix.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Pete from Boston

We've told the Federal government where to stick it before and prevailed.  I guess it's a pick-your battles scenario, but it's still petty of FHWA to leverage funding against local details like this.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 06, 2015, 12:04:04 PM
We've told the Federal government where to stick it before and prevailed.  I guess it's a pick-your battles scenario, but it's still petty of FHWA to leverage funding against local details like this.
Not to derail the thread here, but MA (namely the Sargent Administration) brought such on themselves when they decided not to build any of the missing pieces of I-95, a major East-Coast Interstate, inside 128.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Pete from Boston


Quote from: PHLBOS on July 06, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 06, 2015, 12:04:04 PM
We've told the Federal government where to stick it before and prevailed.  I guess it's a pick-your battles scenario, but it's still petty of FHWA to leverage funding against local details like this.
Not to derail the thread here, but MA (namely the Sargent Administration) brought such on themselves when they decided not to build any of the missing pieces of I-95, a major East-Coast Interstate, inside 128.

The people in the rights-of-way involved made that decision.  Government rules by the consent of the governed, who didn't.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 06, 2015, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 06, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
Not to derail the thread here, but MA (namely the Sargent Administration) brought such on themselves when they decided not to build any of the missing pieces of I-95, a major East-Coast Interstate, inside 128.
The people in the rights-of-way involved made that decision.
Then it's their (NIMBY) fault as well.   :)

Truth be told, the eminent domain process for the much of the unbuilt portions of I-95 was already in full swing when the Sargent Administration declared its moratorium on all highway projects inside of 128.  The piece in Saugus already had the road embankment put in place (where it would remain for decades) and many homes were already demolished along the Southwest Corridor's path (now occupied by the relocated MBTA Orange Line).
GPS does NOT equal GOD

bob7374

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 02, 2015, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
Here's a photo of the above mentioned exit 50 sign:

I took a few other photos of the construction area on my Misc. Mass Photos Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/miscsigns.html

ne11931

September 17 Crosby Corner update.  Westbound Route 2 traffic has been shifted to the final  West alignment, eastbound still follows future East service road although looks like  it will change very soon. Route 2A to 2 West has changed to what looks like the final alignment from that temporary " horseshoe " type ramp.

It's interesting to note that evening rush hour backups are gone at Crosby but the backup at the next traffic light, Route 126 are more than double what they were before.

southshore720

Quote from: ne11931 on September 17, 2015, 09:02:07 PM
It's interesting to note that evening rush hour backups are gone at Crosby but the backup at the next traffic light, Route 126 are more than double what they were before.
Hopefully that backup serves as a "nudge" for them to continue the conversion from signaled interchanges to free-flowing to make MA 2 a complete highway.

ne11931

Quote from: southshore720 on September 19, 2015, 11:20:54 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on September 17, 2015, 09:02:07 PM
It's interesting to note that evening rush hour backups are gone at Crosby but the backup at the next traffic light, Route 126 are more than double what they were before.
Hopefully that backup serves as a "nudge" for them to continue the conversion from signaled interchanges to free-flowing to make MA 2 a complete highway.

There has been resistance from Concord in the past.I think a tunnel the length of the town with no exits would make them happy.The backups in West Concord and Concord that develop because of  people trying to get through the rotary approach gridlock at times. I imagine some of those multi million dollar homes with lines of cars sitting in front of them are losing some value.

noelbotevera

Quote from: bob7374 on July 06, 2015, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 02, 2015, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: ne11931 on July 01, 2015, 07:20:04 PM
I noticed the other day that the off ramp from 2 West to 2A--Cambridge Turnpike is now signed as exit 50. The nearest numbered exits are 43 at Rt 111 in Acton and 52 at Rt 95 in Lexington. All signalized intersections are not numbered.
Those numbers likely date back from an old plan to upgrade MA 2 into a full-blown expressway.  Those particular numbers won't be around for long when MA converts to mile-marker-based exit/interchange numbering in the next few years.
Here's a photo of the above mentioned exit 50 sign:

I took a few other photos of the construction area on my Misc. Mass Photos Page:
http://www.gribblenation.net/mass21/miscsigns.html
I'm not sure if they'll start with mile based numbering. It seems like it's a new trend to them, although PA has had them for over 15 years here in the Northeast.

PHLBOS

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 20, 2015, 11:06:16 AMI'm not sure if they'll start with mile based numbering. It seems like it's a new trend to them, although PA has had them for over 15 years here in the Northeast.
MassDOT just recently issued a bid invitation for exit number conversions and recent I-90 sign replacement drawings (a separate contract) now show mileage-based interchange numbers on them so that change is indeed coming to the Bay State.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

AMLNet49

Indeed, by the end of 2016 many roads should have mileage based numbers, and by the end of 2017 most roads will have them. The Mass Pike should be the first road to get them, as they are the first road to have mileage based numbers written into current re-signing plans which should have construction begin soon.

ne11931

September 25 Crosby Corner update. Eastbound Route 2 has been moved to its final alignment, this means there are no longer any traffic signals on the main line. All the intersecting roads and driveways no longer have direct access,they use service roads. The work left to be done appears to be mostly on the service roads and of course landscaping.

Pete from Boston

Hell freezes over, I'm assuming, once the landscaping is done.



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