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Where did US 31 end in Mobile Alabama?

Started by usends, January 21, 2016, 12:05:31 PM

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usends

Today US 31 ends across Mobile Bay, in Spanish Fort.  Historically it extended across to Mobile itself... but where exactly?  I've posted a new page attempting to answer the question.  Despite the availability of dozens of historic maps, I still have not seen anything that gives a definite answer.  On the page, I ask for help that might come in the form of more historic maps, documents, or historic photos that show route shields.  Maybe someone in this forum has some resources that might shed light on the question.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history


Mapmikey

#1
Alabama County maps are here: http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/counties/mobile/mobile.html

The 1952 is the first to show US 31 on it anywhere and it ends at US 45.

1962 and 1966 don't show what it does in Mobile proper.  Not on 1982 at all.

Mike


The Ghostbuster

If you ask me, US 31 should have always ended in Spanish Fort. I think the triplex with US 90/98 was unnecessary.

Charles2

IIRC, before it was truncated it ended at the intersection of Government Street and Broad street, west of downtown.

froggie


usends

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2016, 04:36:21 PM
If you ask me, US 31 should have always ended in Spanish Fort. I think the triplex with US 90/98 was unnecessary.
Initially it wasn't a triplex; US 98 wasn't extended through there until the mid-'50s.

But you're right: for the functionality of US 31 to be complete, all it needed to do was junction US 90.  However, things were a little different back in the '20s and '30s.  There was more of a sense that routes should serve major population centers, even if that sometimes meant significant overlaps with other routes.

The overlap with US 90 is precisely what made most maps unclear as to exactly where US 31 ended: at what point did the designation of this red line switch from US 31-90 to simply US 90?
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

usends

Quote from: Charles2 on January 21, 2016, 11:53:01 PM
IIRC, before it was truncated it ended at the intersection of Government Street and Broad street, west of downtown.
Is your recollection that US 31 headed westbound on Government, ending at Broad?  Or that US 31 headed southbound on Broad, ending at Government?  Is this a personal recollection?  If so, is it based on what you remember seeing of road signage, or maps, or ?
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

usends

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 21, 2016, 12:37:39 PM
Alabama County maps are here: http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/counties/mobile/mobile.html
The 1952 is the first to show US 31 on it anywhere and it ends at US 45.
Interesting: both the '52 and the '77 show US 31 using the Bankhead Tunnel, heading west on Government, and ending at Broad.  However, other maps show that it was only Alt US 90 that used the Tunnel (presumably because the Tunnel was tolled, so mainline US 31-90 went up and around, over the Cochrane Bridge).
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

usends

Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2016, 06:39:36 AM
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/alroutes/us-termini.htm
Yes, I was aware of that page.  What were your sources?  We seem to have bumped up against the same uncertainties.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

Charles2

Quote from: usends on January 22, 2016, 09:54:08 AM
Quote from: Charles2 on January 21, 2016, 11:53:01 PM
IIRC, before it was truncated it ended at the intersection of Government Street and Broad street, west of downtown.
Is your recollection that US 31 headed westbound on Government, ending at Broad?  Or that US 31 headed southbound on Broad, ending at Government?  Is this a personal recollection?  If so, is it based on what you remember seeing of road signage, or maps, or ?

This is a personal recollection from when I was a kid (I'm nearly 56 now).  IIRC, 31 merged with 90 & 98 at Spanish Fort, and basically piggybacked 90 to the intersection I mentioned.  I think---notice I said "I think"---that 31, 43 and 45 all had the same end point, with 43 SB and 45 SB sharing the route with 98 E.  We're talking nearly 50 years ago.  I could be wrong.  It wouldn't be the first time!  :)

froggie

Quote from: usendsYes, I was aware of that page.  What were your sources?  We seem to have bumped up against the same uncertainties.

An extensive digging through Alabama state highway maps, mostly from my own collection and using the UA online collection Mike mentioned upthread to fill in my gaps.  I also sent emails to ALDOT for clarification on select routes (specifically US 411), but I was unable to get a clarification on US 31.

usends

Quote from: Charles2 on January 22, 2016, 06:36:44 PM
IIRC, 31 merged with 90 & 98 at Spanish Fort, and basically piggybacked 90 to the intersection I mentioned.
So at the time, did 90-98 use the Tunnel?  Or did it go north to cross the Cochrane Bridge, and then back south again into downtown?
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

froggie

Hard to say from maps.  State highway department maps (1952 Mobile County and 1977 city of Mobile) show 31/90 through the tunnel and ALT 90 across the Cochrane Bridge, but USGS topographic maps of the era ('53, '67, '74, '82) show the opposite.  NEITHER set of maps show which route US 98 took.

Mapmikey

Here is a 1950s postcard from the east end of the tunnel:

http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/164/741/001_001.jpg

It is not quite clear enough for me to see if the small print above 90 FREE route says ALT toll, nor can the sign to the left with a US route shield be discerned.

Mike

usends

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 22, 2016, 09:39:07 PM
Here is a 1950s postcard from the east end of the tunnel:
http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/164/741/001_001.jpg
It is not quite clear enough for me to see if the small print above 90 FREE route says ALT toll...
Thanks for the link.  There's another version of that photo on delcampe.com that's slightly more clear: it said "US 90 Toll (left arrow), Free Route (right arrow)".  So the 1953 USGS map seems to be yet another example of their route shields just being wrong.

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 22, 2016, 09:39:07 PM
...nor can the sign to the left with a US route shield be discerned.
I'm pretty sure the first digit is a 9, so obviously it could be another US 90... or if this was taken after 1955, it could also be US 98.  Regardless, no mention of US 31 is apparent in that photo.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

usends

Quote from: usends on January 22, 2016, 07:57:23 PM
Quote from: Charles2 on January 22, 2016, 06:36:44 PM
IIRC, 31 merged with 90 & 98 at Spanish Fort, and basically piggybacked 90 to the intersection I mentioned.
So at the time, did 90-98 use the Tunnel?  Or did it go north to cross the Cochrane Bridge, and then back south again into downtown?
I followed up with Charles2, and his recollection is that US 31 began by heading east on Gov't from Broad.  That matches what's shown on the Mobile '52 and '77 maps, so once again it seems route shields on USGS maps need to be viewed with skepticism.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

Mapmikey

#16
Finally found some proof US 31 was posted in Mobile, though not at any likely endpoint...

Here is US 31-43-90 and AL 5 posted on St Joseph at Adams:

http://picclick.com/Seamens-Club-Hotel-Mobile-AL-Postcard-050615-371327938794.html#&gid=1&pid=1 

this is where that is today, 9 blocks north of Government: https://goo.gl/maps/3SokEbUyx6r

This also means that US 31 did not go through the Bankhead Tunnel...

usends

usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

roadman65

Quote from: usends on January 22, 2016, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2016, 04:36:21 PM
If you ask me, US 31 should have always ended in Spanish Fort. I think the triplex with US 90/98 was unnecessary.
Initially it wasn't a triplex; US 98 wasn't extended through there until the mid-'50s.

But you're right: for the functionality of US 31 to be complete, all it needed to do was junction US 90.  However, things were a little different back in the '20s and '30s.  There was more of a sense that routes should serve major population centers, even if that sometimes meant significant overlaps with other routes.

The overlap with US 90 is precisely what made most maps unclear as to exactly where US 31 ended: at what point did the designation of this red line switch from US 31-90 to simply US 90?
The same could be said about US 23 in Florida, as it could have just ended where it first encounters US 1 north of Alma. 

Back then the FHWA wanted one continuous route to a large city or area, as the latter is why US 319 is concurrent with US 98 for several miles and ends abruptly where it does currently and not in Apilachicola.

Now they are useless for sure, but some do not want to go through the trouble to truncate.  Hats off to AL for doign that at least.  However, I think US 31 should end at I-10 right there a mile to the south, but that is my opinion.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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