Survey question on NYS driving technique

[7/8]

I found this article, though it's in regards to Ontario:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/when-turning-left-should-i-pull-into-the-intersection-to-wait-my-turn/article14205344/

Should you move out into the intersection when waiting to make a left turn? In Ontario, it's left entirely up to you.

"It's accepted practice to move ahead... but it's not required by the law,"  says Sgt. Dave Cross, media relations officer with Halton Regional Police in Mississauga. "But if you sit behind the line waiting for a break in traffic, you could be waiting an eternity."

Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (HTA) doesn't address where you should wait to turn at an intersection.

Young Drivers of Canada teaches new drivers to move ahead when turning left at a light, but just a little.

"New drivers are taught to advance into the intersection with just the front end of the car,"  says driving instructor Berk Dietrich. "When the light turns amber you begin creeping forward slowly and then finish your turn around the end of the last car coming through."

By moving ahead just a little, you're less likely to block the view for left-turning drivers coming from the opposite direction, Dietrich says.

What if you move up too far and the light turns red before you've finished your turn? You could be stuck sitting there while the traffic with the green light drives around you.

Dietrich says those other cars should be courteous enough to let you finish that turn so you're not blocking the intersection. In reality, that might not happen. "Drivers to your right and left tend to ignore this,"  he says.

Apparently Young Drivers (the driving school I used) says to only go a little bit into the intersection. I personally disagree with this though. Most of the time, I have no problems seeing when I'm all the way into the intersection. Also, I've never had problems with drivers not letting you out of the box when the light goes red, unlike what the article suggests. In Ontario, it's very common to not make your left turn until the light turns red, and it's no big deal.

[Sykotyk]

I was taught in PA. Had drivers ed in school, and then got my permit at 16  and my full licens early (not the cindarella license).

I was always taught to 'own the intersection', which meant pulling up into it to make the left. You cleared it when either oncoming traffic stopped for the signal change or you found a gap. But, only the lead car can go past the stop line. Given how Pittsburgh is handled, the Pittsburgh Left was an unstated, but ubiquitous method to turn left (at an intersection, thru traffic yields to the first car turning left on the change to green). This is because hills give little line of sight to oncoming traffic and it's either be the first one out or wait until the yellow/red phase to make the left as you can't see.

[empirestate]

I was taught in PA. Had drivers ed in school, and then got my permit at 16  and my full licens early (not the cindarella license).

I was always taught to 'own the intersection', which meant pulling up into it to make the left. You cleared it when either oncoming traffic stopped for the signal change or you found a gap. But, only the lead car can go past the stop line. Given how Pittsburgh is handled, the Pittsburgh Left was an unstated, but ubiquitous method to turn left (at an intersection, thru traffic yields to the first car turning left on the change to green). This is because hills give little line of sight to oncoming traffic and it's either be the first one out or wait until the yellow/red phase to make the left as you can't see.

Incidentally, I have also noticed that the Pittsburgh Left is much more common in my current area of NYS than it is elsewhere–including Pittsburgh, if I'm honest.

[kalvado]

I was taught in PA. Had drivers ed in school, and then got my permit at 16  and my full licens early (not the cindarella license).

I was always taught to 'own the intersection', which meant pulling up into it to make the left. You cleared it when either oncoming traffic stopped for the signal change or you found a gap. But, only the lead car can go past the stop line. Given how Pittsburgh is handled, the Pittsburgh Left was an unstated, but ubiquitous method to turn left (at an intersection, thru traffic yields to the first car turning left on the change to green). This is because hills give little line of sight to oncoming traffic and it's either be the first one out or wait until the yellow/red phase to make the left as you can't see.

Incidentally, I have also noticed that the Pittsburgh Left is much more common in my current area of NYS than it is elsewhere–including Pittsburgh, if I'm honest.

I know one intersection, where Albany left is done every single cycle (I didn't ever drive there between 2 and 6 AM though, maybe it is less common at night). Elsewhere.. I don't remember recent cases.

[cl94]

MUTCD requires some additional signage in that situation, but Albany never got a copy. FYA is another option, but I don't expect FYA to come to upstate any time soon.

Regions 1, 6, and 7 often sign a lagging protected if the opposing turn is permissive. It's a yellow sign saying "oncoming traffic may have extended green". Many of these signs are too recent for GSV to show and they are typically added as part of sign replacement contracts. Other regions rarely have lagging doghouses, so this isn't an issue. Counties are a different story and I know that Warren County, for example, uses lagging doghouses almost exclusively and never signs them as such.

FYAs are all over Upstate. I have seen or know about locations in place or coming in all regions except 3, 5, and 8. Stuff I have seen implies that Regions 1, 2, 4, and 7 intend to replace doghouses, especially lagging ones, with them on a case-by-case basis. R4 has been the most proactive about it.

[kalvado]

MUTCD requires some additional signage in that situation, but Albany never got a copy. FYA is another option, but I don't expect FYA to come to upstate any time soon.

Regions 1, 6, and 7 often sign a lagging protected if the opposing turn is permissive. It's a yellow sign saying "oncoming traffic may have extended green". Many of these signs are too recent for GSV to show and they are typically added as part of sign replacement contracts. Other regions rarely have lagging doghouses, so this isn't an issue. Counties are a different story and I know that Warren County, for example, uses lagging doghouses almost exclusively and never signs them as such.

FYAs are all over Upstate. I have seen or know about locations in place or coming in all regions except 3, 5, and 8. Stuff I have seen implies that Regions 1, 2, 4, and 7 intend to replace doghouses, especially lagging ones, with them on a case-by-case basis. R4 has been the most proactive about it.

Probably I am in another reality of Region 1...

[vdeane]

Ours are relatively new, but I've definitely seen the one on NY 146 in Halfmoon.

[jakeroot]

BTW, what surprises me is when people pull out and turn their wheels while stopped. I was taught always to keep your wheels straight if you pull out, so that if you get rear-ended you don't slide into oncoming traffic.

Exactly.

Not sure if they teach that in driving school, but things like preventing accidents and how to minimize damage when you are in accidents, largely goes forgotten.

I generally don't turn my wheels, but often, my car is facing towards oncoming traffic, such that a rear-end collision would throw me into oncoming traffic, regardless of whether or not my wheels were turned. The diagram below better explains this:



As to the OP, this is generally how I'd prefer to position cars at left turns.

The dashed white line is the yield line. The double yellow line indicates the right edge of the imaginary left turn lane. As long as oncoming traffic sticks to the left of this line, visibility is still quite good.

Keep in mind that most cars are nowhere near the width of the average lane, so even if there's no central median, you can still pull forward and slightly turn left to wait.

[cl94]

Ours are relatively new, but I've definitely seen the one on NY 146 in Halfmoon.

There are at least 3 active sets at this time:

1. NY 146 in Halfmoon (both directions)
2. US 9/20 SB/EB at NY 150 in Schodack
3. US 4 NB at Washington CR 75 / old NY 32 in Hudson Falls

All of these function as protected/permissive at all times I have driven through. There are others planned. I know there's one being installed in Waterford at some point and I think one is going in on NY 7 east of Troy, among others I have seen in plans. 2 of the existing ones replaced doghouses while NY 146 is a new signal.

Just outside of R1, there's a pair on NY 3 in Saranac Lake (about 2 blocks from the region line) and a pair on NY 30A in Johnstown. Both also replaced doghouses.

[Rothman]

I was taught in PA. Had drivers ed in school, and then got my permit at 16  and my full licens early (not the cindarella license).

I was always taught to 'own the intersection', which meant pulling up into it to make the left. You cleared it when either oncoming traffic stopped for the signal change or you found a gap. But, only the lead car can go past the stop line. Given how Pittsburgh is handled, the Pittsburgh Left was an unstated, but ubiquitous method to turn left (at an intersection, thru traffic yields to the first car turning left on the change to green). This is because hills give little line of sight to oncoming traffic and it's either be the first one out or wait until the yellow/red phase to make the left as you can't see.

Incidentally, I have also noticed that the Pittsburgh Left is much more common in my current area of NYS than it is elsewhere–including Pittsburgh, if I'm honest.

Growing up in Massachusetts, left turners going first didn't expect the people going straight to yield; they just zipped out.  Back then, the practice was very common, but I've noticed that it's lessened in frequency when I head back home now, though.

Heh.  I remember being in Salt Lake where my father was tempted to try a "Massachusetts left" across State Street just to see if he would get hit.

[Flyer78]

I noticed in Japan, they have "pull through" lines to accomplish the right-hand turn at the end-of-cycles, https://goo.gl/maps/RpCkcfB2Ttj

I observed these as a pedestrian, or on a coach, but clearly cars pulled forward for intersections that may or may not have a protected turn cycle.

To be on topic, I learned as OP described, in Central NY during the 90s.

[Brandon]

I was taught (NE Illinois, by both local driving instructors, and Michigander parents) that you pull into the intersection as far as possible and keep your wheels straight.  Most locals around Chicagoland do likewise.  Now, I have noticed that downstaters tend to stop at the stop line and not enter the intersection at all.  I find that very irritating and horn-worthy.

As far as red light cameras, according to Illinois law, if your front wheels are past the stop line on yellow, you can sail through the intersection.  You can also sit there all day waiting to turn left with no penalty until opposing traffic has cleared.