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Author Topic: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction  (Read 4898 times)

Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2017, 01:37:20 AM »

One way service road conversions would be great.
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MCRoads

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2017, 05:49:05 PM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg
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Bobby5280

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2017, 11:55:02 PM »

The remodel of the OK-9 and Lindsey Street exits on I-35 have been mentioned in other threads. The title of this thread contains "small projects" in it. There's nothing small about that I-35 project in Norman. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together when completed (two SPUIs in a row at the Main and Lindsey exits and then a partial cloverleaf at OK-9).

I would be more excited about the I-35/I-240 interchange if it was being rebuilt as a four level stack with all direct connect flyover ramps.

I was in Oklahoma City yesterday. Maintenance crews had eastbound I-44 shut down to one lane by Penn Square Mall. I can't wait til ODOT finally gets the I-44/I-235/Broadway Extension interchange finished. It's an adventure going from eastbound I-44 through the small cloverleaf to northbound Broadway Extension, especially at night. There's very little room to merge safely.

Parts of the interchange at I-44 & Hefner Parkway look like hell. That really goes for the flyover ramp westbound I-44 uses to curve over the interchange. The concrete barriers on the flyover bridge are crumbling badly in enough you can see exposed rebar in a few places.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2017, 01:05:05 AM »

Yeah I probably should have put the I-35 project in its own thread because it likely will be a pretty large project, but I wanted to wait until the specifics came out.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2017, 04:53:17 AM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

Been tracking the updates on these at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.1998/-97.4773 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.3910/-97.4901 as I hear about them.  Though I still maintain that the Norman project should be wholly paid for by OU Football ticket sale surcharges.
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MCRoads

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2017, 01:36:59 PM »

Quote
Parts of the interchange at I-44 & Hefner Parkway look like hell. That really goes for the flyover ramp westbound I-44 uses to curve over the interchange. The concrete barriers on the flyover bridge are crumbling badly in enough you can see exposed rebar in a few places.

Like this?

http://imgur.com/l2ZroN1

When was the last major repair on here?
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2017, 02:12:01 PM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

Been tracking the updates on these at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.1998/-97.4773 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.3910/-97.4901 as I hear about them.  Though I still maintain that the Norman project should be wholly paid for by OU Football ticket sale surcharges.

As lucrative as that might be, these two interchanges are used by pretty much everyone who lives south of Boyd at one time or another.

The thread on that project is here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=235.0 (also includes a lot of stuff about the earlier expansions of I-35 further north in the area)
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2017, 04:28:40 AM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

Been tracking the updates on these at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.1998/-97.4773 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.3910/-97.4901 as I hear about them.  Though I still maintain that the Norman project should be wholly paid for by OU Football ticket sale surcharges.

As lucrative as that might be, these two interchanges are used by pretty much everyone who lives south of Boyd at one time or another.

All three people who stay on OK 9 east of Classen...
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2017, 05:07:58 AM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

Been tracking the updates on these at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.1998/-97.4773 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.3910/-97.4901 as I hear about them.  Though I still maintain that the Norman project should be wholly paid for by OU Football ticket sale surcharges.

As lucrative as that might be, these two interchanges are used by pretty much everyone who lives south of Boyd at one time or another.

All three people who stay on OK 9 east of Classen...

Me and my wife are two of them, who's the third guy? Which of the hundreds of houses in the Eastridge, Oakhurst, and Colonial Estates subdivisions does he live in? (I bet he lives in Oakhurst. Seems like a good place for such a dastardly guy.) And why did he keep putting offers in on other houses we were trying to buy? Is he going to buy all the houses in Summit Valley, too? Does he own NCED? Why does he need to bring so many boats out to Lake Thunderbird all the time? This guy's gotta be stopped.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 05:10:43 AM by Scott5114 »
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MCRoads

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2017, 08:33:44 AM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

Been tracking the updates on these at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.1998/-97.4773 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/35.3910/-97.4901 as I hear about them.  Though I still maintain that the Norman project should be wholly paid for by OU Football ticket sale surcharges.

As lucrative as that might be, these two interchanges are used by pretty much everyone who lives south of Boyd at one time or another.

All three people who stay on OK 9 east of Classen...

Me and my wife are two of them, who's the third guy? Which of the hundreds of houses in the Eastridge, Oakhurst, and Colonial Estates subdivisions does he live in? (I bet he lives in Oakhurst. Seems like a good place for such a dastardly guy.) And why did he keep putting offers in on other houses we were trying to buy? Is he going to buy all the houses in Summit Valley, too? Does he own NCED? Why does he need to bring so many boats out to Lake Thunderbird all the time? This guy's gotta be stopped.

This seems off topic.

What about the new Heftner Pkwy extension?
Is that finished?
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Bobby5280

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2017, 11:40:57 AM »

The Hefner Parkway extension to NW 164th Street is finished. ODOT could easily extend the freeway up to Edmond Road (for now while not much is built alongside OK-74). Expanding it up to Danforth or Covell Road might consume at least a couple properties.
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intelati49

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 01:45:06 PM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

On a side note, I love the formating they have on the map. Looks like the 1950s plansheets, but made in 2015.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2017, 02:17:39 AM »

ODOT has selected the alternative for the Douglas BLVD./I-40 interchange.

They went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2017, 03:09:26 AM »

A SPUI has only one stoplight instead of two, so you're halving the number of stoplights the heavy movement is going through without an additional bridge. Plus, EB->SB movements don't have any signals at all.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2017, 03:53:29 AM »

Yeah but the flyover would have removed a stop for the most heavily trafficked movement which will have a stop with the SPUI. I can see the advantages of SPUIs, but I just think in this case a flyover would work much better for this scenario.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2017, 11:14:20 AM »

Quote from: Plutonic Panda
They went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.

The flyover ramp for NB Douglas to WB I-40 would be the only efficient movement in that interchange. Everything else would be very inefficient. Thru traffic driving NB & SB on Douglas would be mired in three traffic lights in short succession, two in the interchange itself and another very close at the Douglas and SE 29th intersection. To me that would be a downgrade from the existing cloverleaf interchange (which has no traffic lights), even with the serious weaving and merging issues present in the existing interchange. It makes me think of the clusterf*** of Gore Blvd crossing I-44 in Lawton. I really hate having to drive through there. The city is experimenting with timing of the 3 signals along Gore Blvd. Nothing is working. I wish ODOT could replace that interchange with a SPUI. But ODOT isn't going to spend $20+ million on an interchange in Lawton of all places.

Let's also not forget the Alternative 2 flyover ramp for NB Douglas to WB I-40 would not be funded and built in that diamond interchange construction.

The flyover ramp would have been put off to add later, possibly many years later. Look how long it is taking for the I-235/I-44 interchange to get built. With the current state of Oklahoma's finances I could see them building that diamond interchange and then simply cancelling the flyover ramp to save money.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 03:27:15 PM by Bobby5280 »
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2017, 02:51:50 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if they did cancel that flyover if alt. 2 was chosen.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2017, 08:23:25 AM »

No one has mentioned the Lindsy St. and Hwy 9 in Norman. That is one of the most complicated interchange in Oklahoma City (besides the HORRID Dallas Junction, which really should be redone). :hmmm: Also, the outdated I 240 and I 35 is being reconstructed.

http://www.odot.org/newsmedia/press/2015/I35_I240_plan_map.jpg

On a side note, I love the formating they have on the map. Looks like the 1950s plansheets, but made in 2015.

I like it, too.  Only things I would ask is if they'd also include planned lanes and if they did this consistently for all projects.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2017, 08:27:01 AM »

ODOT has selected the alternative for the Douglas BLVD./I-40 interchange.

They went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.

Bummer.  Outfield SPUIs are a pain for pedestrians to traverse and red-light traps for bicyclists entering a green well before a yellow.  Neither's a problem with the traditional infield SPUI design, thanks to it working like any other small, traffic-light controlled four-way intersection...
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2017, 12:21:21 AM »

ODOT has selected the alternative for the Douglas BLVD./I-40 interchange.

They went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.

Bummer.  Outfield SPUIs are a pain for pedestrians to traverse and red-light traps for bicyclists entering a green well before a yellow.  Neither's a problem with the traditional infield SPUI design, thanks to it working like any other small, traffic-light controlled four-way intersection...
Honestly I wasn't even aware there were multiple types of SPUIs. I'll be searching to compare the differences.
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2017, 02:53:10 AM »

ODOT has selected the alternative for the Douglas BLVD./I-40 interchange.

They went with alt. 1 which is the SPUI. I don't have anything against SPUI's, but how is their argument that it is more efficient than a traditional diamond interchange with a flyover for the heavy traffic movement? I don't get that. I think they cheaper out. Oh well.

Bummer.  Outfield SPUIs are a pain for pedestrians to traverse and red-light traps for bicyclists entering a green well before a yellow.  Neither's a problem with the traditional infield SPUI design, thanks to it working like any other small, traffic-light controlled four-way intersection...
Honestly I wasn't even aware there were multiple types of SPUIs. I'll be searching to compare the differences.

Here's the more compact, human-friendly style.
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2017, 03:16:47 AM »

That's not really a SPUI, though. It functions much like one, but it's not one. And of course that has the safety issues of left entrance/exit ramps, which I would imagine are more severe than any inconvenience bicyclists or pedestrians may encounter from a traditional SPUI.

Also, I doubt there's many pedestrians along Douglas Boulevard. The west side of Douglas is Tinker Air Force Base, which of course by design does not present pedestrian-interactive frontage (unless you're the sort of person who likes walking alongside razor-wire fences, Jersey barriers, and/or caltrops). The very reason the NB→WB movement is so heavy at this interchange is traffic leaving from Tinker's Lancer Gate, which is the primary access to the east side of the base (where the massive Oklahoma City Air Logistics Complex is located). The east side of Douglas is vacant space dotted with businesses like self-storage units, aviation support firms, and muffler shops. I guess people might want to walk to Christie's Toy Box (don't Google it at work).

But since when have pedestrian facility advocates ever had to prove that improving ped access actually makes sense?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 03:23:24 AM by Scott5114 »
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2017, 03:33:01 AM »

That's not really a SPUI, though. It functions much like one, but it's not one. And of course that has the safety issues of left entrance/exit ramps, which I would imagine are more severe than any inconvenience bicyclists or pedestrians may encounter from a traditional SPUI.

How is it not a SPUI?  It's a single point intersection typically found in urban areas.  That said, the left exit/entrance issue is minor at best compared to the problems a diamond SPUI causes for anybody who isn't driving.  Being a merely privileged group that has no intrinsic right to operate in the first place, motorists are the last people we should be worried about inconveniencing compared the nonmotorized modes that do have a right to be there.

But since when have pedestrian facility advocates ever had to prove that improving ped access actually makes sense?

Why is it always an uphill battle to get basic infrastructure but luxury options are awarded accommodation, even when superfluous and expensive like the Mustang extension of the Bailey Turnpike?  Just like with the motorist infrastructure, there's a network effect and induced demand.  If you build it, they will come.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 04:10:07 AM by Baloo Uriza »
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2017, 04:54:14 AM »

Where exactly are they coming to along
That's not really a SPUI, though. It functions much like one, but it's not one. And of course that has the safety issues of left entrance/exit ramps, which I would imagine are more severe than any inconvenience bicyclists or pedestrians may encounter from a traditional SPUI.

How is it not a SPUI?  It's a single point intersection typically found in urban areas.  That said, the left exit/entrance issue is minor at best compared to the problems a diamond SPUI causes for anybody who isn't driving.  Being a merely privileged group that has no intrinsic right to operate in the first place, motorists are the last people we should be worried about inconveniencing compared the nonmotorized modes that do have a right to be there.

Sure, let's put traffic merging into the freeway into the left lane of a 70-mph freeway and expect it to not cause any safety issues. Safety trumps convenience, no matter which mode you're using. If you can find a study showing a SPUI is more dangerous to a pedestrian than a left entrance is to a motorist, I'll gladly concede the point.

Quote
But since when have pedestrian facility advocates ever had to prove that improving ped access actually makes sense?

Why is it always an uphill battle to get basic infrastructure but luxury options are awarded accommodation, even when superfluous and expensive like the Mustang extension of the Bailey Turnpike?  Just like with the motorist infrastructure, there's a network effect and induced demand.  If you build it, they will come.

Build WHAT? to come WHERE? The fence on the right, or the lovely evergreens on the left? https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4202403,-97.3709351,3a,75y,180.37h,81.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sS_QY4giwDB5vJhMCQ8Apnw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Seriously, we're talking about a stretch of road where one half is owned by the federal government and designed with the express purpose of keeping people OUT. A lot of the land in this area is also owned by the federal government, specifically to keep development away from the base. This is not an effective place for pedestrian improvements because pedestrians are not supposed to be in the area in the first place!

Mustang is on the other side of the metro—please research the area in question to make sure your opinions on the subject are valid!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 04:56:59 AM by Scott5114 »
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Baloo Uriza

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Re: Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2017, 07:04:56 AM »

Where exactly are they coming to along
That's not really a SPUI, though. It functions much like one, but it's not one. And of course that has the safety issues of left entrance/exit ramps, which I would imagine are more severe than any inconvenience bicyclists or pedestrians may encounter from a traditional SPUI.

How is it not a SPUI?  It's a single point intersection typically found in urban areas.  That said, the left exit/entrance issue is minor at best compared to the problems a diamond SPUI causes for anybody who isn't driving.  Being a merely privileged group that has no intrinsic right to operate in the first place, motorists are the last people we should be worried about inconveniencing compared the nonmotorized modes that do have a right to be there.

Sure, let's put traffic merging into the freeway into the left lane of a 70-mph freeway and expect it to not cause any safety issues. Safety trumps convenience, no matter which mode you're using. If you can find a study showing a SPUI is more dangerous to a pedestrian than a left entrance is to a motorist, I'll gladly concede the point.

It's 65 through there, and left exits are frequent in Tulsa (and not uncommon in most cities).  At least in the existing configurations in Tulsa, it's not a problem to get in or out on the infield SPUIs.  That said, the speed limit could be reduced or the left lane and right lane turned into a weave lane with zero impedance and an increase in safety.  244 on the eastside is is quite overbuilt.

An outfield SPUI increases the pedestrian conflict point count from 1 to 4.  The increased intersection length is automatically problematic for bicycles without timing the yellow light for how long it takes to cross the intersection at 15-25 km/h.

Quote
But since when have pedestrian facility advocates ever had to prove that improving ped access actually makes sense?

Why is it always an uphill battle to get basic infrastructure but luxury options are awarded accommodation, even when superfluous and expensive like the Mustang extension of the Bailey Turnpike?  Just like with the motorist infrastructure, there's a network effect and induced demand.  If you build it, they will come.

Build WHAT? to come WHERE? The fence on the right, or the lovely evergreens on the left? https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4202403,-97.3709351,3a,75y,180.37h,81.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sS_QY4giwDB5vJhMCQ8Apnw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Seriously, we're talking about a stretch of road where one half is owned by the federal government and designed with the express purpose of keeping people OUT. A lot of the land in this area is also owned by the federal government, specifically to keep development away from the base. This is not an effective place for pedestrian improvements because pedestrians are not supposed to be in the area in the first place!

Mustang is on the other side of the metro—please research the area in question to make sure your opinions on the subject are valid!
[/quote]

With the exception of corridors dedicated to moving a specific mode a long distance quickly with minimal conflict (cycleways, freeways), if there's a reason to drive there, there's going to be a reason to walk or bike there, and the reason's going to be identical.
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