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Evansville Historically Neglected?

Started by mspanner442, July 25, 2016, 03:24:32 PM

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mspanner442

I was looking over another thread in the General Area regarding Control Cities which got me thinking of a broader subject as it relates to Evansville.  It seems to me the city was traditionally neglected as it relates to highway routing and construction. 

I-64 seems to be a prime example of that argument as originally it was supposed to be routed through Vincennes (approximately 50 miles north of town).  The compromise was reached and the route was pushed south to serve the city (but still 10 miles north of the city limits). 

I often wonder how things could have been different if the I-64 would have played a more prominent role within the city and been routed either directly on top of the US 460 corridor or SR 62/66 (later to become the Lloyd Expressway).  Other cities of similar size or smaller in this area of the country feature urban interstates, but not only was EVV left out in that regard, I-64 was so far north of town Evansville didn't even rank Control City status. 

I do believe things have slowly been rectified with I-164 (now I-69), and various state highway upgrades.  Still the question remains. Thoughts from the road community?


silverback1065

I definitely think it's true, but I also think Evansville has been ignored by the state in general.  It is a little weird that 64 wasn't put through Evansville proper. 

Avalanchez71

Evansville has a character that is a little different from the rest of Indiana.  However, it is certainly not Southern in character either.  I would think that maybe if I-64 was routed further south that maybe Evansville may have had a little more to it.

mukade

Quote from: mspanner442 on July 25, 2016, 03:24:32 PM
I was looking over another thread in the General Area regarding Control Cities which got me thinking of a broader subject as it relates to Evansville.  It seems to me the city was traditionally neglected as it relates to highway routing and construction. 

I-64 seems to be a prime example of that argument as originally it was supposed to be routed through Vincennes (approximately 50 miles north of town).  The compromise was reached and the route was pushed south to serve the city (but still 10 miles north of the city limits). 

I often wonder how things could have been different if the I-64 would have played a more prominent role within the city and been routed either directly on top of the US 460 corridor or SR 62/66 (later to become the Lloyd Expressway).  Other cities of similar size or smaller in this area of the country feature urban interstates, but not only was EVV left out in that regard, I-64 was so far north of town Evansville didn't even rank Control City status. 

I do believe things have slowly been rectified with I-164 (now I-69), and various state highway upgrades.  Still the question remains. Thoughts from the road community?

The flip side is that if I-64 had gone through Vincennes, Evansville could have fared worse.

I do think Evansville was shortchanged a bit - similar to the way Cedar Rapids and Waterloo, Iowa were. Now, As it stands today, I think it is in very good shape thanks to I-69 which essentially provides efficient connections to every direction. I would say it will certainly have better intercity connections than Fort Wayne and Lafayette once the new bridge is built. In addition, Evansville has a freeway going through its downtown, and it has good system of surface roads.

Although I am a resident of central Indiana, I would say Northwest Indiana has historically been the most shortchanged part of the state when it comes to roads. It is not a lack of freeways there, but the fact that they are over-capacity and the roads in general are in the worst shape up there.

As for the character of the city, it is a bit different than the rest of Indiana. It reminds me more of Oklahoma, but in reality, it probably just has aspects of "regular" Indiana and Western Kentucky - as you would expect from its location.

silverback1065

Quote from: mukade on July 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: mspanner442 on July 25, 2016, 03:24:32 PM
I was looking over another thread in the General Area regarding Control Cities which got me thinking of a broader subject as it relates to Evansville.  It seems to me the city was traditionally neglected as it relates to highway routing and construction. 

I-64 seems to be a prime example of that argument as originally it was supposed to be routed through Vincennes (approximately 50 miles north of town).  The compromise was reached and the route was pushed south to serve the city (but still 10 miles north of the city limits). 

I often wonder how things could have been different if the I-64 would have played a more prominent role within the city and been routed either directly on top of the US 460 corridor or SR 62/66 (later to become the Lloyd Expressway).  Other cities of similar size or smaller in this area of the country feature urban interstates, but not only was EVV left out in that regard, I-64 was so far north of town Evansville didn't even rank Control City status. 

I do believe things have slowly been rectified with I-164 (now I-69), and various state highway upgrades.  Still the question remains. Thoughts from the road community?

The flip side is that if I-64 had gone through Vincennes, Evansville could have fared worse.

I do think Evansville was shortchanged a bit - similar to the way Cedar Rapids and Waterloo, Iowa were. Now, As it stands today, I think it is in very good shape thanks to I-69 which essentially provides efficient connections to every direction. I would say it will certainly have better intercity connections than Fort Wayne and Lafayette once the new bridge is built. In addition, Evansville has a freeway going through its downtown, and it has good system of surface roads.

Although I am a resident of central Indiana, I would say Northwest Indiana has historically been the most shortchanged part of the state when it comes to roads. It is not a lack of freeways there, but the fact that they are over-capacity and the roads in general are in the worst shape up there.

As for the character of the city, it is a bit different than the rest of Indiana. It reminds me more of Oklahoma, but in reality, it probably just has aspects of "regular" Indiana and Western Kentucky - as you would expect from its location.

I would definitely agree with you about NW Indiana as well.  It's interesting how a lot of Indiana residents view Evansville as weird or a place to forget in the state.  I've lived in central Indiana my whole live and never been there, it seems like a cool city though.  69 will really help the city once it's complete.

Avalanchez71

Driving up US 41/SR 63/US 41 is a good alternative to get to Chicago from Nashville.  However, you are correct about NW Indiana.  There is a lack of arterial and collector routes once you start into Lake County near Chicagoland.

Revive 755

#6
Quote from: mukade on July 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
I do think Evansville was shortchanged a bit - similar to the way Cedar Rapids and Waterloo, Iowa were.

As for Evansville being shortchanged, I would say yes since construction of I-164 seems to have been delayed many years after I-64 was completed (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and since they didn't get a north-south interstate until recently.  If Evansville was not getting shortchanged, I would have expected Indiana to have been fighting for years to get an interstate along the US 41 corridor.

But as to being shortchanged with the location of I-64, I would say no.  Per Wikipedia, the population of Evansville was only 128,636 in 1950 and 141,543 in 1960 - enough population IMHO to at least justify a spur off of I-64, but not enough to justify adding a decent sized dip in I-64 - which I think would become more justifiable if the population back then had been around 300,000 or if Owensboro had been around the same size as Evansville.

EDIT:  And at least Evansville got a spur route off the nearby interstate; it is more than Muncie got - which would have been easier to put on a mainline interstate without adding much out of the way travel.

Life in Paradise

Evansville has had mixed up leaders in the past decades, especially when US 41 went from a two lane through town to a 6/4 lane route.  More limited access was waived by city leaders in the 1970s since they wanted stop lights so travelers could easily get off of the new road and drive to downtown. (How did that work out for them??)
-----------
One of the routes for I-164 was to terminate at IN 66 and then travel what is now the Lloyd Expressway to  US 41 and then go south, but they didn't believe that they would have the funds to make it freeway style to the KY border.  Another potential route was to travel down then US 460 (now IN 66 west of Evansville), but that didn't go too far. 

Avalanchez71

Well I would say that the US 41 that runs through Evansville now gives them folks stopping and shopping, dining, and gassing up.  I don't think many through travelers veer off to I-69 former (I-164) to I-64 back to US 41.

Captain Jack

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 27, 2016, 10:47:19 PM
Well I would say that the US 41 that runs through Evansville now gives them folks stopping and shopping, dining, and gassing up.  I don't think many through travelers veer off to I-69 former (I-164) to I-64 back to US 41.

I can't imagine why anyone who is driving through would not take 69-64 as a bypass to 41. It is only 5-6 miles longer, and has to save at least 15 minutes, probably more during peak times.

Avalanchez71

I "feel" like I am going out of the way using that routing.  When I get on I-64 WB I feel like I am not in the right place.  I would say that not too many folks read a map anymore anyway and just let GPS lead them on.

Captain Jack

#11
Interesting conversation..I will add my two cents worth.

I used to think so, however, after traveling around Indiana in more depth the last few years, I realize Evansville is currently as good if not better off than just about anywhere else in Indiana, except Indianapolis. Like others have mentioned, no one else has an "expressway" linking opposite sides of the city through the central business area. The Lloyd is far from perfect, but it certainly beats US 27 in Ft. Wayne or US 31 in South Bend as the city's major cross town thoroughfare. Evansville is also the only city outside of Indy served by two interstates.

With that said, there is no question Evansville has been short-shafted in the past. There are two specific instances I can think of.

1. The US Highway System. Evansville has never had more than (1) principal US Highway. Yes, 460 served the city for many years, but it was more of a secondary route. Most through traffic from Louisville to St. Louis bypassed the city completely, utilizing IN SR 64 and IL SR 14 instead. It has always seemed odd that there was never an Evansville - Indianapolis US Highway. Either a 3-di of 41 or 31, or a US 39 stretching from at least Evansville to Ft. Wayne.

2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with. Once that route was selected, it should have been moved farther south to actually benefit Evansville traffic on a daily basis. Either running across the Diamond Ave area, or even where the current Lloyd is now. Sure would have save millions in building the Lloyd in the 80's, and it would have been done correctly. Also would have been much more beneficial to Henderson and Owensboro. 

However, I think the biggest screwing with the interstates was not including the US 41 Chicago-Nashville route. This was a very heavily used route prior to the interstates, and is still the direct route between Chicago and Florida. I think Indiana was asleep at this time, and Illinois was able to pull it over onto I-57. This route is really useless, and was nothing more than a 300 mile St. Louis bypass in it's current form. I think Illinois would have been better served with I-39 continuing south and following US 51. Anyone from Chicago wanting to go to Southern Illinois could easily follow I-55 to Bloomington then head south on I-39.

Instead of fighting over I-64, Evansville and Vincennes, along with Terre Haute, Henderson, Hopkinsville etc should have been working together to insure this route was included. If this route was included, there really wouldn't have been a need for both I-65 and I-74 running north from Indy. I-74 could have been moved a few miles closer to Lafayette, and Indy-Chicago traffic using this and the 41 route. Similar to what they did prior to the interstates. I-65 then could have been routed straight north from Indy, continuing along US 31, and serving South Bend. If Indiana was going to insist on I-65 going to Chicago instead, it should have at least been angled a little farther Northwest, and actually serve US 41 traffic as it enters Lake County.

Few are aware that once the I-64 fight was over, that I-24 was originally proposed to follow US 41 from Nashville to Evansville, connecting with I-64. At the time, Kentucky had a powerful highway commissioner named Henry Ward, who just happened to be from Paducah. Ward got Indiana to drop the Evansville routing by promising to build a parkway along this route.

With all of this, I would put most of the blame for these shortfalls on the local officials in Evansville during this period, especially the late 50's and 60's. The mayor was a big machine mayor, whose efforts appeared to be concentrated on rewarding his minions with jobs, rather the overall vision of the city. The only instances where I can find city leaders actually pushing INDOT was the city engineer at that time, who appeared to be waging a one man war with them over elevating the new US 41. The mayor seemed rather indifferent to it, and of course, the substandard highway was eventually built.  He also oversaw the cheapening of the civic center complex, which in it's final version, blocked off the primary commerce street into the downtown area. He also pushed for the now dead ended Main Street to be closed off to traffic, further strangling the downtown area. There also seems to be very little cooperation from the city leaders at that time with neighboring cities. The current leadership appears much more progressive, and works very well with regional cities for the common good, especially with Henderson. On the other hand, I think we are still seeing that same kind of machine isolation approach in Owensboro. Mayor Payne seems to be a one man wrecking band, who has zero concern for anything outside of the US 60 Bypass.


silverback1065

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM
Interesting conversation..I will add my two cents worth.

I used to think so, however, after traveling around Indiana in more depth the last few years, I realize Evansville is currently as good if not better off than just about anywhere else in Indiana, except Indianapolis. Like others have mentioned, no one else has an "expressway" linking opposite sides of the city through the central business area. The Lloyd is far from perfect, but it certainly beats US 27 in Ft. Wayne or US 31 in South Bend as the city's major cross town thoroughfare. Evansville is also the only city outside of Indy served by two interstates.

With that said, there is no question Evansville has been short-shafted in the past. There are two specific instances I can think of.

1. The US Highway System. Evansville has never had more than (1) principal US Highway. Yes, 460 served the city for many years, but it was more of a secondary route. Most through traffic from Louisville to St. Louis bypassed the city completely, utilizing IN SR 64 and IL SR 14 instead. It has always seemed odd that there was never an Evansville - Indianapolis US Highway. Either a 3-di of 41 or 31, or a US 39 stretching from at least Evansville to Ft. Wayne.

2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with. Once that route was selected, it should have been moved farther south to actually benefit Evansville traffic on a daily basis. Either running across the Diamond Ave area, or even where the current Lloyd is now. Sure would have save millions in building the Lloyd in the 80's, and it would have been done correctly. Also would have been much more beneficial to Henderson and Owensboro. 

However, I think the biggest screwing with the interstates was not including the US 41 Chicago-Nashville route. This was a very heavily used route prior to the interstates, and is still the direct route between Chicago and Florida. I think Indiana was asleep at this time, and Illinois was able to pull it over onto I-57. This route is really useless, and was nothing more than a 300 mile St. Louis bypass in it's current form. I think Illinois would have been better served with I-39 continuing south and following US 51. Anyone from Chicago wanting to go to Southern Illinois could easily follow I-55 to Bloomington then head south on I-39.

Instead of fighting over I-64, Evansville and Vincennes, along with Terre Haute, Henderson, Hopkinsville etc should have been working together to insure this route was included. If this route was included, there really wouldn't have been a need for both I-65 and I-74 running north from Indy. I-74 could have been moved a few miles closer to Lafayette, and Indy-Chicago traffic using this and the 41 route. Similar to what they did prior to the interstates. I-65 then could have been routed straight north from Indy, continuing along US 31, and serving South Bend. If Indiana was going to insist on I-65 going to Chicago instead, it should have at least been angled a little farther Northwest, and actually serve US 41 traffic as it enters Lake County.

Few are aware that once the I-64 fight was over, that I-24 was originally proposed to follow US 41 from Nashville to Evansville, connecting with I-64. At the time, Kentucky had a powerful highway commissioner named Henry Ward, who just happened to be from Paducah. Ward got Indiana to drop the Evansville routing by promising to build a parkway along this route.

With all of this, I would put most of the blame for these shortfalls on the local officials in Evansville during this period, especially the late 50's and 60's. The mayor was a big machine mayor, whose efforts appeared to be concentrated on rewarding his minions with jobs, rather the overall vision of the city. The only instances where I can find city leaders actually pushing INDOT was the city engineer at that time, who appeared to be waging a one man war with them over elevating the new US 41. The mayor seemed rather indifferent to it, and of course, the substandard highway was eventually built.  He also oversaw the cheapening of the civic center complex, which in it's final version, blocked off the primary commerce street into the downtown area. He also pushed for the now dead ended Main Street to be closed off to traffic, further strangling the downtown area. There also seems to be very little cooperation from the city leaders at that time with neighboring cities. The current leadership appears much more progressive, and works very well with regional cities for the common good, especially with Henderson. On the other hand, I think we are still seeing that same kind of machine isolation approach in Owensboro. Mayor Payne seems to be a one man wrecking band, who has zero concern for anything outside of the US 60 Bypass.

I honestly don't understand how Vincennes could ever have justified an interstate, has it ever been even close to the same size, population count, or importance of e-ville?  I wonder what evansville would look like if 69 went on 41 and 64 used the lloyd. 

Revive 755

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 05, 2016, 12:52:11 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 27, 2016, 10:47:19 PM
Well I would say that the US 41 that runs through Evansville now gives them folks stopping and shopping, dining, and gassing up.  I don't think many through travelers veer off to I-69 former (I-164) to I-64 back to US 41.

I can't imagine why anyone who is driving through would not take 69-64 as a bypass to 41. It is only 5-6 miles longer, and has to save at least 15 minutes, probably more during peak times.

Google has using US 41 from just south of I-69 to just north of I-64 as 22 minutes and 16.7 miles, with the interstate bypass route being 24 minutes but 26.2 miles.  Using Google Maps, I count at least 18 traffic signals and 3 at grade railroad crossings on US 41.  The interstate bypass option would certainly win for reliability  Depending how well those 18 signals are timed, they could easily take longer to get through than driving 10 more miles at 60 mph.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM
I used to think so, however, after traveling around Indiana in more depth the last few years, I realize Evansville is currently as good if not better off than just about anywhere else in Indiana, except Indianapolis. Like others have mentioned, no one else has an "expressway" linking opposite sides of the city through the central business area. The Lloyd is far from perfect, but it certainly beats US 27 in Ft. Wayne or US 31 in South Bend as the city's major cross town thoroughfare. Evansville is also the only city outside of Indy served by two interstates.

Did Gary secretly join Illinois?

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with.

There were larger along US 50 in Illinois east of I-57 than there were along where I-64 is today.  US 50 had Flora (population of 5,331 in 1960); Onley (8,780 in 1960); Lawrenceville (5,492 in 1960); I-64's current route has Mills Shoals (322 in 1960) and Grayville (2,280 in 1960).

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PMOnce that route was selected, it should have been moved farther south to actually benefit Evansville traffic on a daily basis. Either running across the Diamond Ave area, or even where the current Lloyd is now. Sure would have save millions in building the Lloyd in the 80's, and it would have been done correctly. Also would have been much more beneficial to Henderson and Owensboro.

And added how many miles for long distance through traffic, much less a larger cost for building I-64?

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PMHowever, I think the biggest screwing with the interstates was not including the US 41 Chicago-Nashville route. This was a very heavily used route prior to the interstates, and is still the direct route between Chicago and Florida. I think Indiana was asleep at this time, and Illinois was able to pull it over onto I-57. This route is really useless, and was nothing more than a 300 mile St. Louis bypass in it's current form.

Kankakee, Rantoul, Champaign-Urbana, and several other towns in Illinois would likely share my objections to having I-57 being referred to as "useless".  Additionally, many of the early interstate plans (see here and here) had today's I-57 as the main north-south route from Chicago, with today's I-55 corridor only going as far as St. Louis.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PMI think Illinois would have been better served with I-39 continuing south and following US 51. Anyone from Chicago wanting to go to Southern Illinois could easily follow I-55 to Bloomington then head south on I-39.

Which would probably make I-55 another corridor in need of six laning but not getting it, as well as making it harder to get the Champaign-Urbana.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PMInstead of fighting over I-64, Evansville and Vincennes, along with Terre Haute, Henderson, Hopkinsville etc should have been working together to insure this route was included. If this route was included, there really wouldn't have been a need for both I-65 and I-74 running north from Indy. I-74 could have been moved a few miles closer to Lafayette, and Indy-Chicago traffic using this and the 41 route.

Lafayette is not really in line with a Peoria-Champaign-Danville-Indianapolis corridor.  Plus I-65 has enough traffic already between Indianapolis and Lafayette and doesn't need to have another interstate's worth added.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PMSimilar to what they did prior to the interstates. I-65 then could have been routed straight north from Indy, continuing along US 31, and serving South Bend. If Indiana was going to insist on I-65 going to Chicago instead, it should have at least been angled a little farther Northwest, and actually serve US 41 traffic as it enters Lake County.

While there are early interstate planning maps that show today's I-65 going west towards Hammond or eventually angling over and following the US 41 corridor northward, I'm not seeing a US 31 corridor interstate on them.

tdindy88

#14
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
Did Gary secretly join Illinois?

We are talking about parts of Indiana (I mean Gary) that get historically neglected. At least Hoosiers don't want to pretend that Evansville isn't a part of their state.

I do wonder though, I-64 as I see it is a St. Louis to Louisville interstate. What would the route be like if the interstate was routed down through Evansville (along the Lloyd corridor.) The highway would have had to gone even further south in Illinois, curving to the south to reach Evansville before heading back slightly northeast toward Louisville and then there is the Ohio River, which would have made a straight route in that direction impossible. It can't be a coincidence that the northernmost bend of the Ohio River (from Posey County east to New Albany) stops about a couple of miles to the south of Interstate 64.


coatimundi

Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
Did Gary secretly join Illinois?

Might as well. Northwestern Indiana seems to feel perpetually neglected by Indianapolis. The Central Time folks just don't have much of a central focus. I don't blame them.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with.

Somewhere in this forum, someone posted the "History of the Interstate System in Indiana," produced by Purdue in the 70's. I found it enthralling, especially with its depiction of the history of I-64. But it talks about this fight between Vincennes and Evansville, and it was not just simply a matter of size or some wealthy corporate weight-swinging. There was a period where I-64 was shown on commercial maps as following US 50, so it was certainly a strong consideration.
I mean, maybe you guys know that publication really well, but, if not, it's definitely worth a couple of hours of reading if you're interested in how routings were determined.
I mean, when I lived in Bloomington, I preferred US 50 as a route to St. Louis over 46 to 70. It was more interesting and, after 69 was completed to US 231, it took about the same amount of time, even with the congested jog in Lebanon.

Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
as well as making it harder to get the Champaign-Urbana.

And I think that's one of the big reasons I-57 exists. There's always been a tremendous amount of vehicle traffic between Chicagoland and Chambana. Those rich parents from the suburbs don't want to have to roll through Rantoul or Gilman on surface streets.

silverback1065

geez don't even get me started on the Gary area. Indiana thinks that part of the state doesn't exist at all, and it's embarrassing.  People talk about Detroit being bad, look at Gary it's honestly sad how neglected that area is by all politicians.

Revive 755

Quote from: tdindy88 on August 07, 2016, 01:00:32 AM
I do wonder though, I-64 as I see it is a St. Louis to Louisville interstate. What would the route be like if the interstate was routed down through Evansville (along the Lloyd corridor.)

Here are a few rough alignments showing  how an routing into Evansville could have affected I-64: Link


GaryV

Wasn't Indiana weird in the US-highway era too?  No US route between Indy and Fort Wayne.  No direct US route between Chicago area and Indy, and US-52 on that diagonal.  (And a lot of that was the because of the path of the old trails, Dixie Highway and Lincoln Highway, et al.)


NE2

Quote from: GaryV on August 07, 2016, 05:18:54 PM
No direct US route between Chicago area and Indy, and US-52 on that diagonal.
Huh? 52 to 41 was the direct route.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

GaryV

Quote from: NE2 on August 07, 2016, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: GaryV on August 07, 2016, 05:18:54 PM
No direct US route between Chicago area and Indy, and US-52 on that diagonal.
Huh? 52 to 41 was the direct route.
OK, that is pretty direct.  I meant via a single route.  Neither 52 nor 41 in themselves went through, not the way most larger cities that close together were connected by a single route.

silverback1065

I've always wondered why there wasn't a US highway from e-ville to Indy, it's even weirder that there isn't one from Indy to Ft. Wayne, I never noticed that one. I also don't get the hate toward E-ville from the rest of the state.

NE2

Quote from: GaryV on August 07, 2016, 06:54:12 PM
Quote from: NE2 on August 07, 2016, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: GaryV on August 07, 2016, 05:18:54 PM
No direct US route between Chicago area and Indy, and US-52 on that diagonal.
Huh? 52 to 41 was the direct route.
OK, that is pretty direct.  I meant via a single route.  Neither 52 nor 41 in themselves went through, not the way most larger cities that close together were connected by a single route.
Chicago to Peoria? Los Angeles to Las Vegas? Chattanooga to Louisville? Wilmington to Washington? Back in my day, drivers were able to follow more than one number.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Captain Jack

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 07, 2016, 07:01:23 PM
I've always wondered why there wasn't a US highway from e-ville to Indy, it's even weirder that there isn't one from Indy to Ft. Wayne, I never noticed that one. I also don't get the hate toward E-ville from the rest of the state.

I am not sure there is any "hate" towards Evansville from the rest of the state, probably more of a case of indifference...at least that is what I typically get when I am in other parts of Indiana. There are a few towns in the state that always get a negative response when they are brought up..I don't think that is the case with Evansville. The indifference does seem to be a two way street as this area seems more aligned with Louisville, St. Louis and even Nashville than Indy. Probably a lot to do with transportation. I think that may change on both sides once 69 gets finished.

Pete from Boston

For a city of its size in its part of the world, Evansville is doing very well economically.  Its growth seems moderate and sustainable.  It has its share of social problems–poverty correlates excessively to race here like it does everywhere, opioids are running rampant, etc.–but it seems like community structures are good.  Tons of new commercial development, and the downtown that didn't have an Interstate run through it is now becoming a desirable location again (albeit slowly).



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